Topic: [scam tag request] user unclescrooge founder and operator of bitfinex.com - page 3. (Read 18217 times)

I propose to the moderators to close this thread because no one was actually scammed. This is a dispute between partners and has nothing to do with the general public. No one on Bitfinex has actually lost any money, so by definition this isn't a scam.

As long as withdrawals on Bitfinex continue to function perfectly there is no scam.

u can read my email here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2363350

no one take loses because the operator say so with no audit with nothing even more after allowing other to be on the market if they did not deposit the money before hand

man i understand that, i posted that because R said i was never a share holder

Based on his "contract" Myself should have been sharing in the losses - in that the losses should have been reducing the profits.  All you need to do is to set a reporting period to be a quarter or a year (instead of monthly) so that you have enough profits to cover your losses.  So long as the company is profitable over that time period it will work.

So that part about not taking losses seems full of holes.

--

BFX executes trades on MtGox, Bitstamp, or its own exchange based on short/long positions. People aren't betting against the house.  There was an exception to this for a couple days in April when the MtGox connection was lost -- are you referring to that? 
If not, then how is this bucket shop activity?  And if this is bucket shop activity what is logistically wrong with it?

Because the profits are a fixed size pie and the pieces have to be moved around.

In my example above, It's me and 8 employees.  If a 9th employee comes in, then the shares of profit sharing will get diluted.  None of us are shareholders in the company, but we do get profit sharing as part of our compensation package.


But regardless of this, and whether or not you think you are a shareholder or not, what is the resolution you are looking for?

(And is the other party even still responding to this thread?  If not, then anything we talk about is irrelevant at this point.)

regarding this
i took my money out on and i did not made a secret from it


I took my money out because mr tang did not deposit the 150k and no money was deposited until I lost my read only access this june if the money was deposited I was not notified and the deposited money did not show up on his market maker account this account did have a total usd in negative if the money was deposited via other account or other way I have no idea

and i did

note:
that was the case for  BITFINEX LIMITED CR number:1872039 with date of Incorporation:08-MAR-2013

and not for Bitfinex Technology Limited CR number:1912844 with date of Incorporation:24-MAY-2013


u can check this here http://www.icris.cr.gov.hk/csci/

you mentioned "first agreement" - is there a second agreement concerning the shares? i have the impression that

-first agreement grants you 10% of the profits as payment for consulting (of course no participation for losses with that, it might be kind of a service contract). no consulting, no profit for you. agreement lacks completely the minimum amount of consulting that triggers your right to receive 10%. also it lacks the question if you get a service-fee for times of null-consulting. maybe this fact might lead you to the conclusion that you get 10% even if there is no consulting. very questionable. imho the agreement can be terminated any time.

-second agreement might be the shareholder agreement (shares of the ltd). you state holding 20-25% percent of the ltd but dont participate losses. maybe. imho such an agreement requires you to buy yourself in first (deposit cash in return for the share). but this questions imho cant be answered by the first agreement. if there is no "second" agreement, well, then you would have to check back the legislation under which the ltd was installed - what is the content of a null-content-contract for shares of a ltd under this legislation? are you a dormant partner? if this legislation grants you a participation for profits, good for you, if it only grants you profits with share of losses, bad - or good too, if they just let you out without payment..

?

So basically you're just an uppity clueless noob. The veheheeeery uppity but extreeeheheeemely clueless and therefore extremely lulzy variety.

Regarding this part of R post https://community.bitfinex.com/content.php/32-Regarding-recent-team-change
well the email about share dilution from 16/03/2013


this begs the questions

if i am not a share holder why i get diluted ?

why i get to share with other people that are considered share holders ?

Actually, they both exist.

Preferred stock traditionally actually has no voting power.  There are of course exceptions (I an not familiar with FB stock), but while preferred stock has preference of dividends over common stock, common stock actually has more voting power (once again with some exceptions like the issuance of new preferred stock).

Profit sharing shares is traditionally given to employees of a company as part of their compensation package.  For example, I work for Tech Machines Inc. in the Widget Sales department.  My salary is $100,000 a year.  However. as part of my compensation package, I also get profit sharing from the profits that my department makes.  Let's say that the company determines that 10% of our net profits will be distributed to employees.  There are 100 shares of profit sharing total, and since I am the supervisor, I get 20 profit sharing shares.  The other 8 guys who work for me get 10 shares a piece.  So if our Net profit for the year is $1,000,000 then the company pays out $100,000 in profit sharing.  Of that, since I have 20 shares (out of 100), I get $20,000 bringing my annual compensation to $ 120,000 (plus other benefits).  The other 8 guys on my team get $10,000 a piece.

Going back and reading the contract, "myself will receive a financial compensation of 10% of the profits of the previously mentionned website, every month" [sic, emphasis mine].  No where in the contract does it say anything about issuing you preferred shares.  It specifically uses the word profits.


That being said, we are getting a bit off track.  Usually, companies, before they fire workers, if the workers are of significant value, have a severance agreement with their employees.  Do you think some sort of severance pay would be to your satisfaction?

And if not, what do you think a satisfactory result should be?

Once again, in case anyone is unclear on the matter, I am completely neutral in this case.  I actually have no idea who BFX is or what they do, and have met none of the parties here, but I am just trying to help make the community a bit better by facilitating a dialogue and "arbitrating" if you will.  (Which is also why I don't understand the insults being thrown my way).  Clearly, you're not just here to bitch and moan--there is something that you, "myself" wants from this.  What resolution would be to your satisfaction?

Earth???  If you were were in a partnership with a me and we were 50/50 partners selling widgets when our widget plant burns down.  Would we not both be responsible for the losses?

Or if you buy stock in Apple at $100 and next week they are slammed with a fine of 2 billion dollars, and the stock value dropped to $10, would you still claim that Apple owes you the full $100 for your stock?

Even "myself" himself acknowledges that sharholders are "responsible for part of the losses."  He just is now claiming that his preferred shares were shielded from the losses (implying that the common shares were not).  I will address this in a minute.


Man, what's up with all the insults?  Like I said before, and as others said before, we are under the impression he was an employee and not a shareholder.  He was paid based on profit sharing, but not in a fixed salary.  No one is claiming anyone fired a shareholder.

From what retarded planet do you bring these tidings of shareholders "responsible for part of the losses"?


From what alternate universe do you bring these tidings of "firing" shareholders?

This is the funniest thread of the week for seriously.

Of course, they're incredibly transparent.  But then what would you expect from someone like this:  http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/the-nigger-homeowners-and-other-niggers/

profit sharing shares dont exist what does exist are called preferred shares and the conditions for preferred shares vary from company to company based on contract conditions, for example Zuckerberg shares on Facebook have more voting power so he keeps the voting majority even if the percentage is lower that 50%, my preferred shares do not take loses simple like that

i think you are mixing up profit sharing shares and equity shares.

it sounds like you were offered 50% equity shares at the beginning.  But since you wanted to be shielded from loss, you turned that down and agreed to 10% of profit shares (dividends if you will).

At some point, you were upgraded to 25%, still profit sharing shares, since you had no risk.  Then that was diluted to 20%

The rules of the game did in fact change, but you were given the option to play under the new rules or leave the game.  That is perfectly fair.  They did not force you to pay for the losses because that's not what the contract said.  But they essentially gave you the option of converting your profit sharing shares to equity shares (had you chose to do so, since they were equity shares, you would have been responsible for a part of the losses).

You didn't accept to renegotiate the terms and I don't think anyone disputes that.  That's why you were fired.  You were given the option of renegotiating, and you chose not to.  As such, your employment with the company in question was terminated.  As in all terminations, you kept your pay from before the termination and they owe you nothing more.

True.


False.

That's how politics works, especially where low information voters are concerned. Well done, a loser is you.


MPEx has margin. What now?


Bitfinex is a bucket shop. As such it may be construed to be in competition with bad radio programs (the sort that promote the various conspiracy theories) and perhaps Max Keiser. Even such a claim would be a significant (and unwarranted) leap.


Not on MPEx. Read up on things before you discuss said things.


Calling out the various scams and idiocies (the two are often hard to distinguish) has been misrepresented as slander by scammers and idiots since about forever. It never worked, it's never going to work, it's just a waste of breath.

MPOE-PR's posts are a mixture of outrageous trolling and insight.   This is trolling.

I'm guessing that the trolling is based on fundamental opposition to being able to buy or sell on the margin and a preference for an options system.  Now it is fine if you want that - however there are risks with people not being able to cover their options as well.

MPOE's options system is directly in competition with BFX.  So slandering the competition makes sense.

Thank you.


The correct construction on the events isn't that we lack evidence to reach any conclusion, it's that we have sufficient and concrete evidence to support the worst possible conclusion for all the people involved.

Not only is this the logically correct approach but it also disincentivizes scammer behavior such as displayed by ALL the people involved with this site, starting with Devasini and van der Velde (yes, it IS wrong to bankroll scams, and no you will never get away with it) while providing no actual detriment to serious, honest entrepreneurs, making it also the ethically correct approach.


He did, above.


Well, we did have some lolz over reading the purported "contract".

And now to address Raphael Nicolle's retarded bullshit:




Problem solved. They're both liars, they're both very bad at it.

They're both idiots, the sort that pretend to be "entrepreneurs" on rich people's money. They're both very bad at it.

Attention Bitcoin wanna-be investors: You are not losing your shirt "because Bitcoin". You are losing your shirt because of your own stupidity, dealing with chumps such as these two. The longer you keep at it, the lower your chances overall. Business, that means war.

regarding that i am weird ( also posted here https://community.bitfinex.com/content.php/32-Regarding-recent-team-change )
for example being gay for some is weird for others is normal, what is normal for me can be weird for you, what is weird for me can be normal for you, I think the proper term for this in English is subjective opinion