Topic: Scamcoin Special Episode - Let's Talk Bitcoin! show - page 2. (Read 1800 times)

You're missing the point.

What is the difference between a developer holding a quarter million coins for one of the new alts and Satoshi holding a quarter million bitcoins, besides the cries of "that's not fair"?

News flash: nobody really gives a shit about "being fair". If people gave a shit about that, we wouldn't need crypto in the first place.

Pre-mine = Mining before release

Mining = mining after release. If satoshi released a coin today and mined it would it be a pre mine? No it would not. If he didnt mine it he would be flamed like we saw with DGC

I dont know what your goal here is but I hope for humanity's sake you are smarter than this

Wrong, Satoshi published the code and tried to get people in a variety of places to use it(what else do you expect him to do? Run an ad on the TImes Square?)  before he even started mining, anyone can grab the code if he wants, which is not that different from the situation today. And your assertion he mined a quarter million before anyone else is wrong, Hal Finney for one mined several thousand, and the sourceforge registered several hundred downloads for the Bitcoin client during the whole period.

This whole"I didn't get rich so someone must be mean" talk is getting old.

Support your assertions before you post.

Premining is mining. By definition. It's in the name. The idea is that you're mining before (pre-) everyone else. Premining.

Satoshi was a huge chunk of the network hashrate for quite a while. That meets my definition, and I'm not sure why it doesn't meet yours. The only difference with the new coins is that the timescale is extremely compressed because an absolute shitload of power piles into the blockchain within a couple of days. When Satoshi was mining it was CPU-only.

It's not that I don't believe he deserved every bitcoin, he absolutely did. The point is mostly that premining doesn't spell doom for a coin.

+1

satoshi needed to MINE (not pre-mine). The all mythical being was probably the only consistent node for quite some time

Mining!=Premining. Do your homework before you talk.

As i said, nobody will admit the truth, because there is a competition, and admitting the truth means losing "money"

Every point you just made is bullshit. Lurk moar and gtfo

1.http://www.howtoacceptbitcoin.com/
2.http://www.howtoacceptbitcoin.com/
3.You are stupid
4. Escrow

Is there a way now or in the future to pay with bitcoin at the supermarket? NO
Is there a chance that the average human will want to deal with paying 0.,0000023 bitcoin for something? NO
It will survive if the US government will see it at a threat to US dollar? NO
If i buy something online, i have any guarantee that the seller will not scam me? NO

So what use is for bitcoin except as a saving and investment currency ?

Don't get me wrong, it was a good start, but is not the end, just an early experiment to replace fiat money. And if is not evolved in to something useful, the crypto currency don't stand a chance

So essentially you want to know what these alt-coins bring to the table that make them a more attractive coin then bitcoin? or why is it they are being created in the first place?

At this stage I don't beleive alt-coins are bringing anything to the market different. Alot are trying WDC brings faster transaction at the cost of security for instance, but they are trying. I believe this to be a good thing for the market. This is different to let's say a competive market where competition brings innovation because coins once released and developed aren't going to change paramenters like block rewards and transaction times etc. So alt-coins aren;t going to make bitcoin do this, however they could in some way serve a particular purpose for special circumstances, what they are I'm not sure but they could be used for in-game purchases or as giftcards or something like that. They are not more attractive then bitcoin and that is due to worth, alt-coins arent worth anything unless they fit a particular need and do it well, thus being used in the real world by business etc etc much like Bitcoin is now, hence bitcoins worth, they are trying though.

I discovered your site about a week ago and have promptly listened/watched nearly all content. Really enjoying it thus far.

On topic,
I would define scam-coins as any coin that attempt to cash in on the sudden surge of "early adopterism" while not differentiating itself from the many other alt's. People are so willing to jump on the next big thing they don't think ahead and take that leap of faith. While this does diversify and allow for more options when considering what to mine/buy/sell, it over saturates the market and with chain hopping raising the difficulty and then abandoning it. Effectively killing the coin and leaving a bunch of people holding the bag. The scam alt coins can and should be treated like the lottery style hot potato/bomb games where they can be profitable but very high risk if you're caught holding it when it explodes.

The one thing you will find with any and all scam alt coins is some form of pre-mine allowing the developer to pump the coin up as the next big thing while constantly selling it from the start. It works as a quick cash grab to those gullible. Sadly this will not stop as everyone feels that fleeting chance of hope that it may very well become the next big thing.

The only ALT coins that I currently consider not a scam-coin are the ones which truly build upon and innovate in some major way differing themselves from the others. Primarily a different hashing algorithm. As ASIC's continue to make GPU mining non profitable the ability to switch to a different algorithm not compatible with those ASIC's is required to keep competition and innovation alive. A single entity market is rarely a good thing.
Right now I'd go as far as saying LTC is the only ALT coin that is not a scam. It has one of the highest volumes being traded and is slowly finding it's own place in the market. LTC also differs enough from bitcoin with a "unique" algorithm and faster confirmations while not being too fast that would cause flooding the market or constant orphans and mini forks in the chain which can be seen in the current worldcoin.


That's just my general thoughts right now which are constantly changing.

A new coin needs to solve at least one of the many problems with bitcoin. If there is no attempt to do so, or in some cases make the situation worse, one must ask what the developers intention is. Since it is currencies/commodities we are dealing with, the answer is usually a get rich quick scheme.

Please continue...

From my point of view, a coin that is launched now without any premine is a dead coin from the start, and a coin with to much premine is again dead from the start.

And let me explain.
When the bitcoin was launched, there where a few guys mining, so the original developer was able to mine a good share, and having this share of the coins has an incentive to make it work, to fix was is broken, to improve it. Now there are people that have rigs that have 20 to 100 more hashing power than the average consumer hardware, and there are many people like this.

So if a developer will launch a coin without any premine chances are that it will get almost nothing, and at the same time he will watch how other people will accumulate large amount of coins. And so he has no incentive to continue the development of the coin and the coin will die. If there is among this community someone that is willing to work for free to make other people rich please rise a hand.

The second part i think is obvious. If the developer has premined a lot, and let's say that after 1 week the coins that he had premined will worth above 50.000 dollars, chances are that he will not resist the temptation to dump them and then the coin will die.

And so from my point of view an alt coin that has a decent premine is acceptable if it fixes one of the following problems:
  1. shorter block chain. Because of the block chain, bit coin WILL become a centralized currency or it will die.
  2. faster transaction.
  3. more secure to expensive hardware and quantum computers.
  4 easier to use by the average human
Fixing any of this things will make a step forward and so that coin is not a scamcoin.

Money is after all a competition. And everybody want to get an advantage over the other. This is the reason why premine is so hated. Because a large part of the community have powerful hardware bought with the bitcoins that they had mined in the early days. And they want to keep this advantage. Yes, many of them just want to use that hardware to generate money for them and someone else to do the actual work. But if that someone else try to take a share from their profit, is a scamer.

And to generalize, from what I see on this community, and Galimore had a valid point: is someone else has a much powerful mining hardware than mine, is scamer, if i don't have to much from X coin, that coin is a scam coin, and in general what i don't have is a scam, what I have is the future. And sadly this is not to good for the future of crypto currency. Because at this moment, bitcoin is broken and needs to be replaced, but nobody will admit that.

Not that I see much point to Litecoin either, but it does have the second largest userbase and a decent transaction volume.   It also uses different encryption, so stands to gain as a lifeboat in the somewhat unlikely scenario Bitcoin fails for technical reasons.

Ultimately I think the greatest threat to the Crypto's are legislation and regulatory action, so from that perspective Altcoins are like tornado insurance when you like in a flood zone.  Yeah it's protection, but from all the wrong things.

Every coin other than bitcoin is a scamcoin (including litecoin), because I think it will fail in a short period of time. Bitcoin might fail too, but it's much less likely.

People ask us what Alt-Coins they should be paying attention to, and in researching ChinaCoin which has seen quite a bit of popularity among novice cryptocurrency investors, we discovered a whole host of so-called "scamcoins"

The way I operate is as follows:

I look at the evidence

I make a judgement based on the evidence.

I ask people who disagree with me to explain their reasoning

I look at the evidence with the new additions

I make a judgement based on the new evidence

If you're talking about the GLDcoin thread, I went in looking for an explanation and got a bunch of blank stares and "well people will value it because it has GLD in the name"

I am happy to be wrong, please explain to me what I'm missing - If I wanted to just talk about this, I wouldn't bother asking.  I'm here because I want to get perspective from people involved on all sides, I can't help if the people who are pro-GLDcoin can't come up with a single reasonable argument.

How would you suggest I go about this?

Yeah i'm not to sure what your after Adam? YOu already have made up your mind about the alt-coins, i know this from your posts here today and also from listening to the last few eipsodes of Let's Talk Bitcoin...which i love btw.

I don't believe coming in here and kinda of blasting all the other coins out of the water is the best move, yes they don't really offer anything new or different other then a few but what are you looking to acheive?