Topic: scammed by BETFLEXI.COM (Read 393 times)

Client seed are not supposed to be changed mid game. They supposed to be set before the game started, i.e. before you press that spin or roll button. Thus, no one, not the casino nor the player can dictate or predict the outcome of each round, given both parties influence the result prior to the roll. What's exactly the purpose of a provable fairness if the client can change their seed mid-game?

And nonce, let me inquire to them.


Got it. Let me try to approach them with what I have in mind

I found the original template they used for this website and it allowed you to set your own client seeds and regenerate the hash but this isn't to be found in their version in the slot I played and dice. Maybe they have an old version or they removed it. The betflexi version locks you in.

They gave a method to verify it but it's not as documented well in a way that is truthful.
You can verify these bets, but once you go look you'll see that the client seed is provided to them at the start and not controllable by you and cannot be changed mid game. They're able to change future bets but I don't think they can change the result of the bet you're about to make. Only the one after it.

It doesn't use a nonce, instead every single roll they take a random number between 0 and 10000 that they generate and combine that with your client seed and their hash which I wasn't able to check but is combined with their initial roll. Then they take their initial roll and add onto it your generated number from their secret. It doesn't make sense and it's a convoluted way to solve a very easy problem. I just want the PF not to make it difficult for them but because I want to further investigate the pattern behind their random numbers and if it shows any bias towards opposite ends of my bet.


I've asked from the start for them to share all bet history with everyone. Include timestamps as that should hopefully make it clear there was no automation. But with their refusal to provide any real evidence for their claims I have to say that I can't know if it was manipulated or not with such a delay. I'll just have to investigate once they provide it


I've been asking for them to share the bet history since the start. They can share all of it to everyone. I can't speak to it's authenticity now though with the time between my initial request and the ample time they've had to do this.

Can you explain how? 400 spins in 20 minutes? This somehow adds up to being justified to take my money and block my account? A brand new casino that clearly has no users? An unverifiable license?
When did they provide my bet history to show you how blatant it must be enough to justify holding all the money?

They're making the claim I exploited. So why can they not show the proof? I've been begging for this from the start. Aren't you curious why they won't show this?

On that case, and on normal logic, it'll be better and feasible to ask for their verifier, the platform where players can check each of their game. Actually, it'll be more precise to say that it is what should be asked on every question about PF, so I still can't see the logic behind asking them to provide verification on each bet.

Nonetheless, I have to agree that saying they're provably fair and yet didn't give any method to prove the fairness is a bit... worrying. I'll inquire this on their ANN thread, given this topic seems to be beneficial for players future reference.


Let me try a different approach that I have in mind. Not sure if betflexi would cooperate with this idea, but it wont hurt trying. I'll need your consent to initiate this... shot-in-the-dark, regardless they'll agree to it or not: do you allow them to share your betting history to me, on for-my-eyes-only basis?

The numbers and the time we learnt does not add up to give you a justice, I am sorry to say that.

If that is 4700 bets, I would say it is impossible to place 4700 bets in 1200 seconds without using any kind of 3rd party help. But if it's 400 or even 800 bets, I would say it is pretty much possible. I have played  Pragmatic Slots Dragon 888, and I am a master. When you enable turbo bet and disable animation from the settings, you can bet one bet each second. So, even if he played a thousand bets, I won't accuse him of using a 3rd party bot or software. But I am also surprised that the guy somehow wanted to blackmail the casino.

Their PF was convoluted and I want to review it. As I said I started flipping my bets after making a few losing in a row and this had a few wins in dice. I want to see if there's any pattern to their PF because they were generating the numbers beforehand. It made claims that it's provably fair but the user is unable to control their seed but they're able to manipulate all future bets with a randomly generated number for each bet. They do not use a nonce.

Spins are way faster than 3 seconds.. I didn't use anything automated, it's quite that simple. How about they provide timestamps?
If I recall correctly if you just press the spin button it ends the current one early, and we are assuming their amount of games is accurate. I have no access to my logs and they haven't provided anything.
They didn't even make these slots. They have no idea of any of it. They just bought a script and turned it into a scam. Go look at their thread with their very generous bonuses and 1 million raffles.

Why are we so focused on a single metric? Can they provide my bet logs? Anything?

Can I just make it clear that they're just making up excuses to not payout?

I'm not here trying to get my money. I'm trying to warn people to not fall victim for them.
Go make an account and take advantage of their very generous deposit bonuses and see the slot for yourself if they haven't changed it by now.
Why would they need to make up 1 spin per 8 seconds? It's an obvious lie.

edit.

Guys. Forget it. This is going in circles. I tried to warn you all. Good luck. Even if what they say is true which it isn't I'd love to hear how this isn't just an excuse to avoid payout.

OP, I can't help but wonder the first time I read that request [marked in bold], which grew stronger by each time it being repeated. May I ask what purpose does it serve? To ask the casino to provide each bet with PF information? Certainly... well, hopefully it's not to make the request daunting --borderline impossible-- for them and/or anyone who oversee this case and would validate the evidence? You realized that you're requesting a PF verification for each bet, for --by your own calculation-- 4,700+ bets?

We will ignore the data given by betflexi at this point, because what I am interested to know is your reason and what's whirring in your head when you're for asking PF for each bet, thus the applicable numbers will also be what you had on your mind when you asked for it.


I'll make a guess that the numbers came from their system, given... well, they studied their own system.

But let's also take your rebuttal as a valid point, that they don't have auto button and you done everything manually, and both slot and dice can be done much sooner than that. For the sake of an argument, let's say both of them can be done in three seconds. That's me factoring in clicking the button manually, click skip or whatever button to skip the animation that'll cut the time needed, and that you promptly made the next bet right after the first one finished, nearly instantly.

The ongoing assumption will be there is no delay in between button being pressed and the bets to be registered, with further assumption that it doesn't need you to move your cursor or finger, that the button is exactly at the same position as the "roll" or "spin" button, as moving fingers and cursor will add more time.

Let's say that'll be around one to one and a half second, with a spare of another one and a half to two seconds to look at the result and made a decision for the next bet [unless you're saying you just spamming the button and couldn't care less about the result? of which I'll ask why], which is the reason I said "nearly instantly" on earlier paragraph, assuming there is no strain in your eyes, brain, or fingers that'll require you to take a rest, and that your hand didn't experience cramps after performing a tedious action for hundreds of times [actually it'll be closer to a thousand] rather non-stop, that otherwise will add a further delay between the rapid action of button mashing and heart-beat decision making.

So, three seconds.

With the extra seconds that build up from the centi-seconds saved due to several factors like some rounds doesn't exactly need three seconds, maybe less, etc., allocated to the time needed to switch between slots and dice, for the page to reload, thus, approx., at best, three seconds for each round.

You played for 20 minutes? That's 1,200 seconds. Three seconds each game [with all of the assumptions above] will bring us to 400 games at best.

Thought?

No. This is what he said just before. That's my whole history and I have no idea if those pages are even accurate as I can't even go and look at them since I'm banned.


427 games. I played 427 games in 20 minutes.

I do think I need to bold since it's clear that the point is not getting across that their accusation is completely ridiculous and I'm still unable to figure out what they supposed I did. If you can read all their messages and tell me I'd love that because so far none of it makes sense to me.

Can I just repeat I didn't even used automated scripts or whatever the hell they're on about? I'm getting really tired of having to repeat this but they keep bringing up that I somehow admitted it. It's not that many games. Come on.

No need a bigger font style to get attention, this in fact creates questions about your seriousness for the accusation.

Many crypto casino are not regulated. You are not playing in fiat casino where you must need to comply with license and regulation.

And how much would that be? Since you blocked my account I can't get an accurate amount but if I had to off my previous screenshot then it looks like 1.5k in which case I correct myself it is 1500 locked away. Is that a significant amount less? Why not mention the amount?

Christ, you're too transparent.

1 spin per 8 seconds, 1 dice roll per 6 seconds. Where do you get these numbers from
You're able to end spins early. You're able to do dice much faster than that. What is this? Why are you constantly repeating this as justification when:

A. I didn't use anything automated.
B. You literally have auto buttons in the games.
C. You can spin much faster than this and you know it.
D. How does this even result in an advantage?


Guys, am I living in lala land? This is getting really silly. They're trying to twist words that literally contain a condition in them. 'Even if I did use them, I did not gain any advantage.'

How clear do I have to make it here? They're exit scamming. I've asked many times how this could even result in an advantage and ontop of that this amount of spins isn't even that much.

Let's stop going around in circles and just call out this site for what it is already.

Thank you for your kind suggestion and for your objective perspective on the matter. However, from our interactions thus far, it is evident that this user is a bad actor whose sole intention is to harm our interests. Therefore, we have decided not to engage further with him through any medium. Additionally, he has proven to be dishonest. Contrary to his claim of having 2000 units locked in his account, he had significantly less.

To clarify, we did not ban this user immediately after the system flagged his account for abuse. The chat moderator first reached out to him via the chatroom to inform him of the perceived abuse. He revealed his intentions within just 60 seconds of receiving the message, which indicates that his course of action was premeditated before registering on our platform, as evidenced by the chat screenshot he posted. It was only after it became clear that this user was uninterested in any investigation or mediation that we blocked him to prevent further harm.

Upon offering him a support email with the assurance that his issue would be thoroughly reviewed and promptly updated, he refused. Instead, he insisted on posting on Bitcointalk with the intent of ridiculing us and provoking others to post similar content to place a scam notice on our announcement page. This behavior suggests that he may be a sponsored actor aiming to discredit our new casino.

Now, addressing the issue at hand.

Our Slots play at 8-second intervals, while Dice plays at 6-second intervals. In 30 minutes, a maximum of 225 spins is possible for the slot game (with an 8-second interval) and 300 spins for the dice game (with a 6-second interval). However, this user played 427 games in 20 minutes, which would only be feasible if he were playing both Slots and Dice simultaneously, which is not possible. Hence, the system flagged his account.

Regarding a first-time offender, our usual protocol is to issue a warning after confirming the infraction, refund the deposit, and provide an opportunity to start again with a clearer understanding of our guidelines. However, in this particular instance, the individual has shown no intention of seeking a resolution.

1. The individual appears to possess considerable knowledge about Bitcointalk and its operations, yet chose to engage with us using a new ALT account. This raises the question of why they did not disclose their full Bitcointalk identity. Their decision to hide behind an ALT account and their reluctance to engage openly casts doubt on their intentions.

2. Additionally, despite alleging negative views about our platform, the individual proceeded to register, which suggests a possible ulterior motive. This act raises concerns of potential exploitation or other concealed agendas.

Given these circumstances, we have no desire to engage further with this individual, in alignment with their apparent lack of interest in engagement. It should be noted that their account was suspended due to violations of our rules and attempts at blackmail.

It should also be noted that he did, in fact, admit to using some form of exploitation tools when he stated, 'Even if I did use them, I did not gain any advantage.' How could he assert that he did not gain any advantage from something he allegedly did not use?

It is not just about us. Breaking the rule of any casino would get you same result anywhere.

We would refrain from commenting further about this issue. Thank you all

This isn't a license to operate/be regulated for gambling and I urge you to try actually find that registration because if it does exist then at most it's a business license in costa rica and probably not for the same sector. There's no mention of jurisdiction but I have to assume they meant B.V so it's Costa Rica so they got their own registration wrong in their ToS.

How did you check? Because in their website they claimed they have are a registered casino.

https://betflexi.com/pages/terms-of-use

Upon further checking it appears they are not regulated and have no license. I urge anyone to strongly think twice before thinking about playing here.

Just one slot. Gold Rush. It was paying so I didn't bother with anything else. Maybe I tried a few spins in other slots but I don't have the history.

I also tried blackjack and dice but not at the same times as slots. I hopped between.

I also did exactly this, I withdrew as a test and saw also immediately their daily withdrawal limit is $500 but they seemingly are running $1M raffles and 250% deposit bonuses?

I am trying to understand what they mean by hundreds of games. It is completely fair if there are hundreds of rolls in slot games because it's not impossible to play hundreds of rolls in slots. But that is unbelievable if they mean hundreds of different games (slots). If the casino accuses this player of playing hundreds of games in 20 minutes, that is only possible if they use some automated process in multiple tabs. I don't see any other possible ways.

The casino rep should understand that when a player newly registers at a casino, it is very much possible to request a withdrawal faster because players want to test if the casino is legit or not. There is no reason for a player to play the whole day, and the casino does not pay at the end of the day. I also check casinos by making a withdrawal request to check their withdrawal process. This is not unusual.

If it was enough to ban and block me then it should have been pretty easy to show it here after being requested for days. Instead they're beating around the bush.

This casino only seems to have been around for a couple of months and doesn't have much traffic. It might be due to their inexperience that they assumed you were using automation. If it was $13,533 in bets in 20 minutes, that would not be unusual even if you started with a low balance of a few hundred dollars. The only thing that is kind of a red flag is that you chose to create a scam accusation without even attempting to resolve this through the method they suggested. That still doesn’t imply that you are guilty of wrongdoing. Betflexi should provide more details about what was the suspicious activity in 20 minutes that they banned you for.

Just the chat. It was such a blatant lie I didn't bother to entertain it any longer. It's clear they have no customers and I wanted to warn others before they fell victim.

I'd rather all of this be public instead. You'd do the same if you were accused of something you didn't do and banned.

Where's the commitment? They haven't provided any evidence and use seemingly flawed arguments to why their action is justified. They claim I've tried to blackmail them, etc. They've attacked my character that I must be using an alt for my bad acts instead of providing facts. They claimed I did admit to automating etc. They've tried to make it look like 13k wagered is somehow indicative of using automated systems to exploit loopholes which is just blatantly false.


I will coordinate with them publicly here. I'm still waiting for the evidence which has not been provided. It should include all provable fair information to go along with it for full transparency.

I don't think anything like this has happened here before. I think they have no users at all. My deposits have a very low ID and the withdrawals are even lower. We're talking single digits for withdrawals.