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Topic: Scammer tag: PatrickHarnett - page 23. (Read 39288 times)

legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1003
November 05, 2012, 04:21:31 AM
#26

Patrick has admitted this mistake and is attempting to rectify it as best he can.


As have many scammers in the past who went on to scam again.

There should be objective criteria for assigning a scammer tag.

Debtor in default -> Scammer tag until debt is paid off.
Not in default -> No scammer tag
Not a debtor -> No scammer tag

Without objective criteria, the tag will just depend on who your friends are. As it does today.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
November 05, 2012, 04:13:17 AM
#25
Any idiot could see that these arrangements were scams from the outset.
Ahh, okay.

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Now the schemes are in default and it is time to deliver the scammer tags.
So you are arguing both Patrick and Mircea should get scammer tags?

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If you don't assign a debtor in default a scammer tag, then what are scammer tags for?
He's not a debtor in default. He's one party to a contract partially invalidated by a common mistake. A scammer tag would be for someone who uses fraud or deception, not for someone who makes a mistake where the other parties to his agreements equally make mistakes.

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You are arguing that Patrick and MPOE are idiots. That may be the case. Regardless, the defaulted debtor should get the scammer tag.
I am not arguing that. You are. You are the one who said, "Any idiot could see that these arrangements were scams from the outset."

I disagree. I don't think either party realized that there was significant Pirate exposure. The premise on which this agreement was made was false due to no greater fault on either side. The parties mutually should bear the cost of their common mistake. Patrick is making partial payments as he is on other similar debt he has.

There's no evidence this was ever a scam. There's no evidence of any fraud or deception. Patrick has admitted this mistake and is attempting to rectify it as best he can.

Enforcing a contract as agreed, when that contract is based on a common mistake, is inequitable. If the mistake is not due to one party's fault more than the other, then both parties should bear the costs of their mistake.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1003
November 05, 2012, 03:57:36 AM
#24
Any idiot could see that these arrangements were scams from the outset. Now the schemes are in default and it is time to deliver the scammer tags.
If you don't assign a debtor in default a scammer tag, then what are scammer tags for?

You are arguing that Patrick and MPOE are idiots. That may be the case. Regardless, the defaulted debtor should get the scammer tag.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
November 05, 2012, 03:29:45 AM
#23
What happened here was this: PatrickHarnett advertised a depositing scheme, recallable on demand, paying 5% a month. He then unilaterally changed the interest rate to 1% (or below that, in steps, something like that). This in itself is a breach of contract, as he wasn't also simultaneously repaying holders on demand, but we'd have let it slide.

Then, he converted deposits into unrecallable paying ~1% a week. So basically what PatrickHarnett has done was transform an interest bearing recallable deposit into a sort of miner bond, where he pays "some" interest and the principal can never be recovered. This is not acceptable.

Scammer tag, please. Patrick Harnett is Peter Lambert v2.0.
There's no evidence this was a scam. In fact, everything I can see suggests that it was simply a common mistake. As the transcript shows, the agreement was based on the common understanding that he had no or limited Pirate exposure.

This turned out to be incorrect. It's not clear that this is Patrick's fault. This fault is equally on both sides of the agreement. At the time, the only evidence that Patrick had significant Pirate exposure was the common sense realization that it was likely that people were borrowing from him to invest in Pirate and lying to him about it.

Quote
Aug 10 08:06:31   listen i actually wanted to talk to you.
Aug 10 08:06:38   hi
Aug 10 08:06:54   hey. your deposits still bs&t free ?
Aug 10 08:07:21   I run a slightly complicated business, but most of the deposit accounts I run are BS&T free
Aug 10 08:07:39   that's what the market wanted
Aug 10 08:07:58   you deem yourself able to repay your depositors in the event bs&t goes bankrupt, and nothing is recovered ?
Aug 10 08:08:00   back in a couple of minutes - grabbing a glass of wine - friday evening here
Aug 10 08:09:57   back
Aug 10 08:10:17   in the event BS&T goes bust, I have more than enough assets to cover that
Aug 10 08:10:41   mainly because the 15,500 coins I hold on deposit are not invest in BS&T
Aug 10 08:10:56   well that works. i'd like to put 500 bitcoins with you
Aug 10 08:11:02   do you mind id'ing with gribble ?
Aug 10 08:11:28   I was only planning on being here a minute so didn't id

Here we see both parties making the same mistake. Both parties had substantially the same information and made substantially the same mistake. Why is this Patrick's fault? Patrick has stated in another thread that he is paying this debt back the same way he is paying back similar debts. He is taking responsibility for his share of the common mistake and his lenders should do the same.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
November 04, 2012, 10:34:59 PM
#22
It is incomprehensible that not the entirety of pass-through operators are labelled as scammers anyway.
+1

And the people who labelled them as scammers before the scheme collapsed should get anti-scammer tags.

This is an idea I can thoroughly get behind  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1003
November 04, 2012, 09:27:24 PM
#21
It is incomprehensible that not the entirety of pass-through operators are labelled as scammers anyway.
+1

And the people who labelled them as scammers before the scheme collapsed should get anti-scammer tags.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
November 04, 2012, 09:21:35 PM
#20
It is incomprehensible that not the entirety of pass-through operators are labelled as scammers anyway.
This, frankly.
Apparently, being complicit in a $5 million fraud isn't enough...
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 501
November 04, 2012, 06:34:55 PM
#19
Who watches the watchmen?
The government!!!
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
November 04, 2012, 02:26:44 PM
#18
It is incomprehensible that not the entirety of pass-through operators are labelled as scammers anyway.
full member
Activity: 235
Merit: 100
November 04, 2012, 02:20:10 PM
#17
Who watches the watchmen?
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
November 04, 2012, 10:12:15 AM
#16
What exactly is to "pan out"? It's already panned.

You should get in touch with his employer

http://www.srgexpert.com/patrick.html

Quote
Our core values are independence, integrity and objectivity

I'm sure they'd be interested in this lapse in integrity.

His employer, his professional association, his district attorney, the works.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
November 04, 2012, 09:29:02 AM
#15
What exactly is to "pan out"? It's already panned.

You should get in touch with his employer

http://www.srgexpert.com/patrick.html

Quote
Our core values are independence, integrity and objectivity

I'm sure they'd be interested in this lapse in integrity.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
November 04, 2012, 08:20:10 AM
#13
What exactly is to "pan out"? It's already panned.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 502
November 04, 2012, 07:06:17 AM
#12
Patrick rates these accusations AAA-

lol.

Interested to see how this pans out!
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
November 04, 2012, 06:23:15 AM
#11
Patrick rates these accusations AAA-

lol.
sr. member
Activity: 275
Merit: 250
November 04, 2012, 04:21:15 AM
#10
Patrick rates these accusations AAA-
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1003
November 04, 2012, 02:03:28 AM
#9
It has been a few days and the alleged scammer (an extremely frequent poster) has not responded to the accusation...

What does that mean?
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
November 04, 2012, 01:58:07 AM
#8
If I borrowed 500 coins from someone and then refused to give them back, saying that it's a mining bond now and therefore not a repayable deposit anymore, then I'd get the tag.

If that is really how it went down then so should Harnett.

It's weird the lack of attention that this thread is getting.

Perhaps...

full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
November 04, 2012, 12:16:44 AM
#7
If I borrowed 500 coins from someone and then refused to give them back, saying that it's a mining bond now and therefore not a repayable deposit anymore, then I'd get the tag.

If that is really how it went down then so should Harnett.

It's weird the lack of attention that this thread is getting.
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