[Science Fiction'n stuff] Why video games show that time travel is not possible

Third Way

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Quote from: grondilu on December 16, 2012, 06:46:49 PM

I was obviously talking about backwards time travel. I don't consider forward time travel as genuine time travel. We travel to the future all the time. And we can make it faster by sleeping.

And as I said, you can't travel due to the fact you would need to control all of the mass in the entire planet to do so.

grondilu

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I was obviously talking about backwards time travel. I don't consider forward time travel as genuine time travel. We travel to the future all the time. And we can make it faster by sleeping.

J-Norm

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The source code should be simple enough...

Code:

createMonster('Dragon');
sleep -300;
print( 'A dragon will arrive in 5 minutes!' );

grondilu

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Quote from: dancupid on December 16, 2012, 11:02:13 AM

I'm not sure that this 'proves' time travel isn't possible, since the players in the game world are also living lives that are moving through real time independently of the virtual world. ie the game world is not self contained.
If the game world was populated by AIs then it would be trivial to time travel, since you'd just need to have a record of all the states the game passed through and restart it at your preferred state.
Since humans aren't living their lives as a game with a real life beyond the confines of the universe, it could mean that we are all just AIs in a simulation, in which case time travel is perfectly possible.
Just place my AI in the state it is now into the simulation at an earlier state.

Even if you consider all humans to be AIs in a simulation, multiplayer time travel is still tricky because in order to allow just one player to time travel, you'll have to create a fork of all other players. You can't just delete the other instances, otherwise you would have privileged a special point of view in the game, which would be as if the game was single player imo. So you have to create a new universe each time one player time travels. This is consistent with the multiverse version of time-travel, but it is not reasonable from a computational point of view. Moreover, I would still not consider this as multiplayer. It would rather consist in several single player games running in parallel, but quite independently. Imho, genuine multiplayer time travel simulation can occur when two players traveling back in time can meet in the same universe, i.e. in the same event log or something.

It might be possible if the computer attempts to simulate the self-consistent version of time-travel. But it would be even weirder.

dancupid

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I'm not sure that this 'proves' time travel isn't possible, since the players in the game world are also living lives that are moving through real time independently of the virtual world. ie the game world is not self contained.
If the game world was populated by AIs then it would be trivial to time travel, since you'd just need to have a record of all the states the game passed through and restart it at your preferred state.
Since humans aren't living their lives as a game with a real life beyond the confines of the universe, it could mean that we are all just AIs in a simulation, in which case time travel is perfectly possible.
Just place my AI in the state it is now into the simulation at an earlier state.
In such a simulation, all the paradoxes that are supposed to prevent time travel would be irrelevant. I can freely kill my grandfather without consequences, since I'm just an AI in a particular state interacting with a simulation.

Third Way

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The reason time travel is impossible is not due to vidya gaemz. It's due to the fact you would need to control all the mass in the entire planet at the same time.

foggyb

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Wow great topic OP.

I think you're right, with a caveat. It seems impossible to pull off in-game when the other players are humans, who are obviously subject to the time dimension.

If the other players are AI players, i think you could theoretically go back in time in the game, but the time-travel logic would add heavy CPU and storage requirements. You'd need to give the game engine access to every possible event that can be influenced by going back in time, then you'd need to make sure that nothing is just played back, but rather that every encounter is reprocessed. Un-influenced events would need to remain unchanged.

Very complex, but I think it could be done. Seems like a programming nightmare though.

Lethn

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That's bad news for you lot because if the Red Alert series has taught us anything then someone is going to use it to take over the world *shifty eyes*.

grondilu

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Quote from: Gabi on December 15, 2012, 04:21:36 PM

Time travel in the future is possible

Yeah I was obviously talking about backwards time travel. In a game, you can time travel in the future by just not playing.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

You've never played a game with a save point? LOL

Gabi

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Time travel in the future is possible

davout

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1davout

Quote from: grondilu on December 14, 2012, 04:11:41 PM

I've just watched an other science fiction movie about time travel and it made me feel like writing this idea I have for some time: video games are a proof that time travel is not possible.

As far as I know, there is currently no multiplayer video game that is capable of convincingly simulating time travel. We're capable of simulating words where we can do pretty much everything we want, including violating the laws of physics. And yet for some reason we seem to be unable to conceive a game engine where one player could go back in time in the game. It would just not make sense at some point. I suppose the very idea is logically non consistent or something.

Photon939

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GIFSoup

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I think you're right that time travel simulation hasn't really been fully explored by any game so far. I'm sure its just a matter of time before somebody does it though, given how many games have stories where the characters go back in time, or at least re live some ancient events. World of Warcraft is one well known example.

Lethn

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Timesplitters?

grondilu

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Quote from: Foxpup on December 14, 2012, 11:09:36 PM

There are also currently no video games that are able to convincingly simulate the interactions of all the neurons in a human brain, ergo, thinking is impossible.

Simulating a large number of interacting systems, not just neurons, is difficult. It requires a lot of CPU. You could have mentioned fluid dynamics for instance, which is also tough to simulate accurately.

Simulating time travel in a video game does not require lots of CPU. It's much more a matter of design and conception. You could imagine for instance that your computer reproduces the recorded actions of other players, but then the time-traveler could not interact with these NPC players(*). Or if he could interact, then everybody would be time traveling, which is not the hypothesis. However you try to even imagine it, it all gets terribly messy from a logical point of view.

*: unless you imagine that the NPC are capable of convincingly reproducing the behavior of other players, which is way too strong an hypothesis, and it brings other issues anyway.

Third Way

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Quote from: Foxpup on December 14, 2012, 11:09:36 PM

There are also currently no video games that are able to convincingly simulate the interactions of all the neurons in a human brain, ergo, thinking is impossible. Now stop doing it, because you're not doing a good job of it. Roll Eyes

Seriously, something will never be possible in real life because it's currently impossible in video games (which are bound by present, not future, technology)? What sort of logic is that?

I stopped using my neurons years ago. Get with the times man.

Foxpup

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Vile Vixen and Miss Bitcointalk 2021-2023

There are also currently no video games that are able to convincingly simulate the interactions of all the neurons in a human brain, ergo, thinking is impossible. Now stop doing it, because you're not doing a good job of it. Roll Eyes

Seriously, something will never be possible in real life because it's currently impossible in video games (which are bound by present, not future, technology)? What sort of logic is that?

grondilu

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Quote from: yogi on December 14, 2012, 06:58:24 PM

Observation -
"no multiplayer video game capable of convincingly simulating time travel"

Conclution -
"time travel is not possible"

Huh

Well, "proof" is probably too strong a word. "Strong indication", if you prefer. Kind of like the Fermi paradox.

greyhawk

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Someone hasn't played Singularity

Topic: [Science Fiction'n stuff] Why video games show that time travel is not possible (Read 2038 times)