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Topic: Seasteading... - page 2. (Read 5128 times)

donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
December 20, 2011, 10:21:28 AM
#47
why? It seems foolish and impractical to live on the water.


Because you do not have to pay taxes and join military forces that you disagree with?

Lots of places where taxes are minimal and there is no military obligation.  $1 mil retirement fund would last a lot longer in a country like Belize then in some high sea adventure where the cost of everything is increased by 100% to 20,000%.

What if I don't like Belize?

What if I want to live in a country full of rich people, which resembles a floating resort, has no laws or taxes, and lets me do whatever I want as long as I'm not hurting my neighbors?

How are you going to achieve both?  Either you can hurt your neighbors or there has to be some system of laws (maybe simplified, maybe mutually agreed upon).  Otherwise it is simply might makes right and if you have enough might you can hurt your neighbor.

Still if you want a rich floating city go ahead however I think many are underestimating the costs involved.  Everything is expensive at sea.  Water, fuel, electricity, food, replacement parts, maintenance, etc.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
December 20, 2011, 10:18:53 AM
#46
why? It seems foolish and impractical to live on the water.


Because you do not have to pay taxes and join military forces that you disagree with?

Lots of places where taxes are minimal and there is no military obligation.  $1 mil retirement fund would last a lot longer in a country like Belize then in some high sea adventure where the cost of everything is increased by 100% to 20,000%.

What if I don't like Belize?

What if I want to live in a country full of rich people, which resembles a floating resort, has no laws or taxes, and lets me do whatever I want as long as I'm not hurting my neighbors?
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
December 20, 2011, 02:06:09 AM
#45
why? It seems foolish and impractical to live on the water.


Because you do not have to pay taxes and join military forces that you disagree with?

Lots of places where taxes are minimal and there is no military obligation.  $1 mil retirement fund would last a lot longer in a country like Belize then in some high sea adventure where the cost of everything is increased by 100% to 20,000%.

What if I don't like Belize?
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1007
December 20, 2011, 02:02:16 AM
#44
why? It seems foolish and impractical to live on the water.


Because you do not have to pay taxes and join military forces that you disagree with?

Lots of places where taxes are minimal and there is no military obligation.  $1 mil retirement fund would last a lot longer in a country like Belize then in some high sea adventure where the cost of everything is increased by 100% to 20,000%.

What if I don't like Belize?
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
December 20, 2011, 12:15:28 AM
#43
why? It seems foolish and impractical to live on the water.


Because you do not have to pay taxes and join military forces that you disagree with?

Lots of places where taxes are minimal and there is no military obligation.  $1 mil retirement fund would last a lot longer in a country like Belize then in some high sea adventure where the cost of everything is increased by 100% to 20,000%.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
December 20, 2011, 12:05:15 AM
#42
So what do seasteaders envision in the far future? Will a subset of humans evolve to be marine mammals in the same vein as dolphins, seals, etc?
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
December 19, 2011, 03:21:19 PM
#41
I see, seems like you guys have it together. A fascinating idea.

Actually, the Lifeboats idea doesn't even use aquaculture.  They intend to use hydoponics.

I tried hydroponics once. Ended up with a watermelon 2.5 inches in diameter that was almost all core. It was FAIL.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1007
December 19, 2011, 02:38:23 PM
#40
I see, seems like you guys have it together. A fascinating idea.

Actually, the Lifeboats idea doesn't even use aquaculture.  They intend to use hydoponics.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
December 19, 2011, 04:51:42 AM
#39
I see, seems like you guys have it together. A fascinating idea.
newbie
Activity: 43
Merit: 0
December 19, 2011, 01:40:46 AM
#38
As governments become increasingly repressive of human liberty, it has become clear that land-based governments are sinking, and the only practical alternative is for humans to return to the sea from which our species originated.

Awesome. What about farming?
Aquaculture is a major area of study for TSI.  In fact, one of the architects of an aquaculture business plan will be presenting a detailed talk at the next Seasteading meetup in Millbrae, California on Tuesday, December 20, 2011.  See http://www.meetup.com/sfbay-seasteading/ for details.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
December 18, 2011, 10:45:22 PM
#37
As governments become increasingly repressive of human liberty, it has become clear that land-based governments are sinking, and the only practical alternative is for humans to return to the sea from which our species originated.

Awesome. What about farming?

How much farming does Japan do?  (hint, not much)
legendary
Activity: 947
Merit: 1008
central banking = outdated protocol
December 18, 2011, 09:52:52 PM
#36
http://www.fastcoexist.com/1678720/former-seasteaders-come-ashore-to-start-libertarian-utopias-in-honduran-jungle

I'm a bit of a landlubber myself although I do appreciate the idea of seasteading.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
December 18, 2011, 09:48:50 PM
#35
As governments become increasingly repressive of human liberty, it has become clear that land-based governments are sinking, and the only practical alternative is for humans to return to the sea from which our species originated.

Awesome. What about farming?
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
December 18, 2011, 09:19:55 PM
#34
there's plenty of 'islands' out there that are just a few metres below sea level, I wonder how much it would cost to build your own island on top of one such 'island'.

Well, most of those are either within the coastal space of an existing nation, too unstable to form a foundation, or both.

There are a fair amount of US controlled uninhabited islands (read: bird shit covered rocks in the middle of nowhere), many of which you could probably squat on without ramification. No one has really cared about them since WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano_Islands_Act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guano_Island_claims

side note about submerged islands: look up Cortez Bank off of San Diego...you don't want to live where 120ft swells pile up...
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1007
December 18, 2011, 06:41:20 PM
#33
there's plenty of 'islands' out there that are just a few metres below sea level, I wonder how much it would cost to build your own island on top of one such 'island'.

Well, most of those are either within the coastal space of an existing nation, too unstable to form a foundation, or both.
sr. member
Activity: 270
Merit: 250
December 18, 2011, 01:30:57 AM
#32
there's plenty of 'islands' out there that are just a few metres below sea level, I wonder how much it would cost to build your own island on top of one such 'island'.
newbie
Activity: 43
Merit: 0
December 17, 2011, 02:59:51 AM
#31
I'm delighted to find this topic being discussed here, and surprised that no one has yet posted any links to http://seasteading.org.  A group of seasteading enthusiasts has for the past three years built a flotilla of boats and improvised floating art projects as http://ephemerisle.org.  We simply put together a prototype seastead in the middle of the Sacramento River Delta and live on it for the better part of a week.  Not all of us are experienced mariners, so it is helpful to have seasoned sailors on the crew, but every year we learn more about properly anchoring in the location, checking tide tables so we're not caught unprepared, and learning how best to tie up a bunch of boats into a floating "village."  The next Ephemerisle will be born on June 6, 2012 and dismantled on June 10, 2012, and everyone is welcome to attend.  It is an experiment in radical self-reliance and, like Burning Man, you pretty much have to fend for yourself, so be prepared to exercise your freedom AND take responsibility for yourself.  A French television crew joined us for a few days last year, and the final program has been posted online at http://vimeo.com/32372015.  The Ephemerisle segment is the last part of the program.

Of course, practical seasteading, as envisioned by TSI, goes far beyond putting together a flotilla of boats on the ocean.  The Seasteading Institute does research into the technology of establishing floating platforms that could become self-sustaining communities that would be able to weather storms, produce marketable goods and services and experiment with novel forms of social organization. 

Getting to that level will require a lot of hard work, trial and error and small incremental projects building upon one another.  The first step is "shipsteading," taking existing technology and adapting it to a semi-permanent floating community or business enterprise.  The first commercial shipsteading venture has just been launched this year in the form of http://blueseed.co. This project has generated a huge amount of press in the past two months since they began raising venture capital, and the core founders of BlueSeed were all at last month's Bitcoin meetup at Google, so bitcoin is definitely on the table as a business opportunity they are interested in pursuing.

Ultimately, marine engineers advise building semi-submersible structures on the template of offshore oil platforms, which are proven to be durable and reliable under the most challenging of conditions, albeit an astonishingly expensive endeavor.  But this is not a short-term project.  Those of us invested in the seasteading concept are in it for the long term.  This is a vision that we believe is not only possible, but inevitable.  As governments become increasingly repressive of human liberty, it has become clear that land-based governments are sinking, and the only practical alternative is for humans to return to the sea from which our species originated.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
December 16, 2011, 06:33:34 PM
#30
Only major question: where will money come from? Teleworking? Fishing? Harvesting and recycling floating garbage? Rich investor types only? (buying up lots of Bitcoin and making money on skyrocketing deflation?)

Obviously you didn't read the thread.  Money comes from selling infrastructure services to some yacht owners on the move, many of whom are pensioners trying to save living money while seeing the world in retirement; among other sources.

Sorry, I was thinking more ahead as a means for people to permanently exist as part of this flotilla, not as just a business venture for a "mother ship"

Gotta start somewhere Smiley

One misconception about the ocean is that there is stuff in it. That really isn't the case once you are away from the coast, save for migratory species and huge pelagic predators which are only there because they are on their way to a coast.

Places like the Sargasso Sea are damn near devoid of higher life, and are so far from anything that it is impractical to think of them as a garbage dump you can pick through.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
December 16, 2011, 05:36:24 PM
#29
Only major question: where will money come from? Teleworking? Fishing? Harvesting and recycling floating garbage? Rich investor types only? (buying up lots of Bitcoin and making money on skyrocketing deflation?)

Obviously you didn't read the thread.  Money comes from selling infrastructure services to some yacht owners on the move, many of whom are pensioners trying to save living money while seeing the world in retirement; among other sources.

Sorry, I was thinking more ahead as a means for people to permanently exist as part of this flotilla, not as just a business venture for a "mother ship"
hero member
Activity: 533
Merit: 501
December 16, 2011, 05:30:13 PM
#28
I personally believe that 7 billion is well above the carrying capacity of earth, and the first to innovate and shed complete dependence on farmland will prosper immensely in the end. I could give a rat's ass about the government in the big picture, really.

The counter examples provided are all retarded:

* The moon - is the fucking moon.
* Space in general - might as well be the fucking moon.
* Under the ocean - Huh
* In the middle of the Sahara (yes part of nations, but I don't think anyone would care) - inhospitable
* North or south pole - inhospitable
* Somalia - I like both food and not having my family raped and mutilated in front of me.

This 'absurd logistical nightmare' is the life that millions of people lead already. I don't think you know much about sailing, yachting or boating in general.

Talk about inhospitable. How do you explain New Jersey? It also might as well be the moon.

(New Jersey native)
New Jersey has a bad reputation, but it has a wide variety of wilderness, farmland and mountains outside of the areas that most people tend to see (unfortunately most just see Newark airport, which is as bad as can be found in NJ). Don't just accept the general accepted limited view of NJ. You will miss out on a lot.

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