Second chance for mixers? - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Don Pedro Dinero

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Quote from: examplens on January 11, 2025, 01:32:25 PM

Someone thought that, Bitcoin-friendly Trump, would go against all US laws and push the signature campaign on the bitcointalk forum. Wink

Even if he had to release all the prisoners from the previous arrests of the owners of the mixer.

No, some people didn't think of that rubbish.

In the same way that he will ban CBDCs, which are the most anti-privacy financial tool in existence, he can implement privacy-friendly policies on cryptocurrencies, such as setting a high minimum exemption below which transactions do not have to be reported. Such measures could well include not seeing mixers as a tool for money laundering but as a legitimate tool, with the illegitimate use being the use to which they are put.

But I can see that this reasoning was too complicated for you.

fillippone

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Quote from: examplens on January 11, 2025, 01:32:25 PM

Someone thought that, Bitcoin-friendly Trump, would go against all US laws and push the signature campaign on the bitcointalk forum. Wink

Even if he had to release all the prisoners from the previous arrests of the owners of the mixer.

Lol, yes.
I don’t see it coming, even if he will pardon Ross Ulbricht on the first day; I feel this is too far, even for my wildest dreams.

I am entirely against the fight on mixers, as I think they are a fundamental privacy tool, and money laundering is not a crime per se.
But I understand this position is incompatible with most government-like institutions.

examplens

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Quote from: fillippone on January 11, 2025, 12:28:57 PM

I don't know if anyone has already reported this news:

Operators of Cryptocurrency Mixers Charged with Money Laundering

Quote

A federal grand jury in the Northern District of Georgia returned an indictment on Jan. 7 charging three Russian nationals for their involvement in operating the cryptocurrency mixing services Blender.io and Sinbad.io.

A few posts ago, dkbit98 posted about this.

Quote from: fillippone on January 11, 2025, 12:28:57 PM

I really cannot see how theymos can readmit mixers with the long-term benefit of the forum in mind.

Someone thought that, Bitcoin-friendly Trump, would go against all US laws and push the signature campaign on the bitcointalk forum. Wink

Even if he had to release all the prisoners from the previous arrests of the owners of the mixer.

fillippone

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I don't know if anyone has already reported this news:

Operators of Cryptocurrency Mixers Charged with Money Laundering

Quote

A federal grand jury in the Northern District of Georgia returned an indictment on Jan. 7 charging three Russian nationals for their involvement in operating the cryptocurrency mixing services Blender.io and Sinbad.io.

I really cannot see how theymos can readmit mixers with the long-term benefit of the forum in mind.

Excimer

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Due of these damn mixers, everyone thinks bitcoiners are some kind of criminals.

It was high time to ban mixers. I am very grateful to admin for the right decision. Admin saved a reputation of all bitcoiners. We must say thank you to the admin. And stop begging him to bring back this disgrace - mixers

OP, only one person supported your mixers. Think about it. Nobody wants to hear about these shameful mixers anymore.

aioc

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Quote from: SmartGold01 on January 11, 2025, 03:53:16 AM

Quote from: dkbit98 on January 10, 2025, 06:32:54 PM

Maybe this latest press release from US Department of Justice is a good answer on your question, arrests and charging of creators and mixer creators/owners are not stopping, and that won't change under the new administration:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/operators-cryptocurrency-mixers-charged-money-laundering

The best decisions would be made by theymos and, from this article you posted here there is no way theymos would have to put this forum at risk to still permits mixers to be advertised here anymore.
Not even sure that the Trump administration would even permit mixers as well.

I second that; we are still good without mixers right now. We are on a safe side, and for the good of everybody here and of the forum, its better not to take risks on mixers.
Those who are in power right now may change their policy and become lenient on mixers, but how about the coming powers? Because in the US, there's always a shift in power.

SmartGold01

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Quote from: dkbit98 on January 10, 2025, 06:32:54 PM

Maybe this latest press release from US Department of Justice is a good answer on your question, arrests and charging of creators and mixer creators/owners are not stopping, and that won't change under the new administration:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/operators-cryptocurrency-mixers-charged-money-laundering

The best decisions would be made by theymos and, from this article you posted here there is no way theymos would have to put this forum at risk to still permits mixers to be advertised here anymore.
Not even sure that the Trump administration would even permit mixers as well.

Poker Player

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Quote from: dkbit98 on January 10, 2025, 06:32:54 PM

Maybe this latest press release from US Department of Justice is a good answer on your question, arrests and charging of creators and mixer creators/owners are not stopping, and that won't change under the new administration:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/operators-cryptocurrency-mixers-charged-money-laundering

Why do you draw this conclusion? The fact that this is happening now does not indicate anything about what will happen later. When Trump takes office he will appoint a new attorney general, and they can pass more privacy-friendly legislation.

Obviously, if any mixers are used for massive money laundering they will go after them but with new legislation they could go on to be recognized as legitimate sites. Automated laundry sites are legal even if in some cases they are used to launder money, and, in fact, the concept of money laundering comes from them. But they are legitimate businesses however much a few may use them to launder money.

Joel_Jantsen

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Get your game girl

If one is advocating for Mixers as an initiative to encapsulate privacy, they likely have no idea how commercial Bitcointalk is. You could be doing 100 other things, not using Bitcoin to start with and creating a much better privacy-based eco-system for your crypto. Bitcoin Mixers allowed or not doesn't change the fact that this is a private forum and will be subjected to all legal obligations just like any other site on the surface web.

dkbit98

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Maybe this latest press release from US Department of Justice is a good answer on your question, arrests and charging of creators and mixer creators/owners are not stopping, and that won't change under the new administration:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/operators-cryptocurrency-mixers-charged-money-laundering

Smartvirus

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Quote from: uchegod-21 on January 06, 2025, 05:48:06 PM

If Trump's administration becomes so bitcoin friendly, will theymos consider lifting mixers ban in the forum?

The question I asked myself firstly when I saw this thread was;

Is the problem or issues with mixers going to go away? Would it disappear in a puff of smoke because Trump is president of the US?

Not like they did have any real problems or issues but, their mood of operation was the problem and how government kept attacking them once they got big enough. Mixing services is a vital one but, been dragged into the scandal by a government that isn’t very keen on cryptos, there is a catch.

CryptSafe

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Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on January 07, 2025, 03:29:58 AM

Quote from: _act_ on January 06, 2025, 05:54:12 PM

It has gone to the extent that mixers are linked to fraud.

Very lame narrative, created by those who are anti bitcoin and decentralization. A mixer is a tool, it's up to the user who is using the tool. Fraud can be a person not the tool itself. You punish the fraud not the tool. There are no bitcoin tagged as black and white. Bitcoin can be used to perform illegal activates, so does cash and even fiat in bank. Would you ban banking system for it?

Theymos made a decision for his own safety, he can tell whatever he wants to everyone. The bitcointalk.org community safety will be ensured when we will have an onion address. A clear net domain can be seized anytime by powerful people. What will happen to us people who have a major time of their life spent with this community?

Your explanations are quite clear and right, mixers are just like a tool as the banks and markets are, it is more like an open market for everybody where people enter and exit at any time and nobody would be stopped from entering the market as they enter, you can not tell who they are making them do whatever they like and go their way. That does not mean that the market is bad but the people going to the market are mixed with both the good and the bad which is left for the market operators to strengthen their security apparatus so that they do not experience any issues and if they do, they can be able to apprehend the culprit to face the wrath of the law.
This does not mean that the bank and market would be banned because something happened there. There have been robbery attacks on banks but to date, banks still exist. I believe this is the situation with mixers though and there is nothing anybody could do about it as it is an open source for everyone to use just like the bank and market.

examplens

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Quote from: coupable on January 10, 2025, 06:29:32 AM

But there are many ways to cheat, should they all be banned? There are still some decentralized trading platforms that are used as mixers, why not ban them as well?

Which decentralized trading platform are you talking about that is used as a mixer?
(we are talking about the banning of the mixer from the bitcointalk forum, and the op started a discussion about a possible un-ban of mixer advertising.)

coupable

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Quote from: PX-Z on January 06, 2025, 06:56:34 PM

Quote from: _act_ on January 06, 2025, 05:54:12 PM

The matter is more than just bitcoin lover becoming the United States president. It has gone to the extent that mixers are linked to fraud...

Right? it's the law for AML itself, no president can't defend such thing. It's bitcoin mixer's nature is the main thing here. While mixers can surely enhance privacy, they also pose ethical challenges due to their potential misuse which can happen to any mixer and can pose legal issue here if allowed to being advertised.

But there are many ways to cheat, should they all be banned? There are still some decentralized trading platforms that are used as mixers, why not ban them as well? I find it naive to put such an approach because if a knife can be used to kill, then you cannot prevent people from buying and selling it under the pretext that it can be used in an evil way. Also, Bitcoin is flourishing in the black market and the gambling industry, so let's completely cancel it and ban discussions about it.

I would not be surprised if advertising campaigns for mixers return to the forum, but I would be surprised by the logic behind the ban from the beginning and then canceling the ban later. Let's not forget that the ban on mixers does not only include advertising campaigns, but it has also become almost forbidden to talk about them as if they are not part of the crypto scene.

Josefjix

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yes

Quote from: Excimer on January 09, 2025, 02:24:27 PM

It's funny to read your naive comments. The era of mixers is long gone. What are you even talking about? What Trump? Mixers were banned not by the president, but by regulatory agencies. No more mixers. No more any second chances for that

You do not speak for the forum, and you appear to be the only anti-privacy advocate here. Whether the forum reconsiders the stands on Bitcoin mixing advertising now that the SEC fraud is out of office or not is up to theymos and him alone.

FinneysTrueVision

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We won’t suddenly go back to a time when there was no rules, just because Trump is in office. It would be hard to ignore billions of dollars being laundered by North Korean hackers. We also have to take other counties into account. Sinbad was taken down by the Dutch government. One of the Tornado Cash developers was also arrested in the Netherlands. Pavel Durov was arrested in France. While his case isn’t primarily about cryptocurrency, it still shows that there are other governments that are also anti-privacy.

Several mixers which once ran campaigns on Bitcontalk have suddenly disappeared within the past year. This makes me question whether there is still sufficient demand for them to run high paying campaigns and if it is even worth considering unbanning them if they will use the forum for promotion and run off with user funds after a short while.

Hagart

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Quote from: Excimer on January 09, 2025, 02:24:27 PM

~snipped~
...Mixers were banned not by the president, but by regulatory agencies. No more mixers. No more any second chances for that

No. You are very wrong about that. To start, I want to say that I am not in favor (I don't think that will ever happen) of mixers returning to the forum, but that is just my personal opinion.

Regulatory agencies have not banned mixers or anything else. It was theymos who made the decision to ban mixers to avoid possible future problems. I think he made the best decision.

Btcdeybodi

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Quote from: uchegod-21 on January 06, 2025, 05:48:06 PM

If Trump's administration becomes so bitcoin friendly, will theymos consider lifting mixers ban in the forum?

OP i don't know why you are raising a fresh discussion about a possibility of Mixers return to the forum. If Mixers will return to the forum again, i think Theymos will be in the best position to give us a heads up about it and until then i see no need for further discussions about Mixers. Perhaps, Theymos has already banned threads and discussions about Mixers in the forum. Mixers are not illegal in the first place so it's not about Donald Trump being bitcoin or crypto friendly. The reason why Theymos made a quick move to ban Mixers in the forum is to prevent unforeseen attack in the forum by US law enforcement agencies. Or would you like to see an impromptu attacks on the forum due to continuous promotion and advertisement of Mixers?

Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on January 09, 2025, 09:51:30 AM

First, we don't know if theymos banned mixer on the forum due to the issues that lead to shot down of some mixers during Biden's administration or maybe he just did it as a precaution because of how strick the government were.

You can read what Theymos said here so that you will understand his reasons for Mixers ban in the forum

Quote from: theymos on December 01, 2023, 05:45:25 AM

Bitcointalk.org aims to allow about as much freedom as is reasonably possible. But this is not a darknet forum, and with mixers looking "grayer and grayer", it's no longer reasonably possible to allow linking to mixers. Even though "a cryptocurrency mixing service is not necessarily illegal," a clear pattern has emerged where mixers pop up, last for a little while, and then get taken down by law enforcement once they get too big. Allowing mixers to be posted on bitcointalk.org before they seemingly-inevitably get declared illegal and seized is not sustainable. Therefore, promoting mixers will no longer be allowed, similarly to how darknet sites are already disallowed.

Ever-young

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Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on January 09, 2025, 09:51:30 AM

First, we don't know if theymos banned mixer on the forum due to the issues that lead to shot down of some mixers during Biden's administration or maybe he just did it as a precaution because of how strick the government were. For now, there's no evidence yet to allow mixers here until we see how well Trump will treat Bitcoin during his administration.

Trump might speak well about bitcoin, but trust politicians at your own risk; secondly, there is no government that will be an advocate for privacy; it's never possible; they will always be against whatever will make it impossible to track user transactions and increase anonymity. Have you seen any government promoting privacy tools before? When they are ready to monitor you down to your personal space if they are given the chance to.

Hyphen(-)

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Quote from: Churchillvv on January 06, 2025, 05:59:40 PM

Apart from the fact that some OGs of the forum disappeared into the thin air after mixer ban what exactly is special about mixers coming back ?

I don’t also see anything special about it if it comes back because the forum is not after them generally, the main reason for its ban here is because of their fraudulent activities, and I think the decision was taking in order to protect the forum’s reputation since some mixers are actually been advertised here and some people get access to them through this forum.

Quote

Definitely not against it because I was never here when mixer where active although I saw them but was ignorant of them, I really do not see any specialty attached to mixers.

If the forum bring back mixers, if doesn’t sound well because it is not just US that have control over Bitcoin and mixers, therefore, I don’t see any good reason for bringing mixers back.

Topic: Second chance for mixers? - page 3. (Read 1916 times)