Second hand S5 for Bitmain, are they worth ? - page 3.

Amph

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Quote from: alh on August 11, 2015, 06:42:04 PM

Quote from: gablay12 on August 11, 2015, 06:29:50 PM

According to supply and demand theorem, if the award is halved then the BTC price must be doubled.

That ignores the existing millions of coins as part of the "supply". I also have yet to see any cogent explanation of what constitutes Bitcoin "demand". The usual Supply and Demand stuff would be great, except I see no serious way to quantify either.

the majority of those coins are in holding mode, so they are freezed, useless for calculating demand and supply ratio, which was in favor of demand until few days ago, what i'm thinking when the price crush a bit is that the demand is decreased and not that the supply was more stronger...

if you can have enough data on all exchange, about how many coins are bought and how much are sold, you can have your estimation about exact number for supply and demand

Quote from: gablay12 on August 11, 2015, 06:29:50 PM

According to supply and demand theorem, if the award is halved then the BTC price must be doubled.

this can be true after you compare the % of dumped coins from miners, with the % of the actual total dumped coins each day, and see how much is this % in comparison with the latter

and all this assuming that demand remain the same...

unholycactus

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Quote from: gablay12 on August 11, 2015, 06:29:50 PM

According to supply and demand theorem, if the award is halved then the BTC price must be doubled.

Wrong way to see it. The demand doesn't double as soon as a halving happens, it pretty much stays the same, so does the price.

alh

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Quote from: gablay12 on August 11, 2015, 06:29:50 PM

According to supply and demand theorem, if the award is halved then the BTC price must be doubled.

That ignores the existing millions of coins as part of the "supply". I also have yet to see any cogent explanation of what constitutes Bitcoin "demand". The usual Supply and Demand stuff would be great, except I see no serious way to quantify either.

gablay12

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According to supply and demand theorem, if the award is halved then the BTC price must be doubled.

QuintLeo

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If you have electric in the 5 cent/KWH or less range, those S5s should ROI - though not by a lot - before the bitcoin block rewards gets halved next summer and most current-gen miners get uneconomical or barely break-even even with cheap electric.

Worse case, the miner itself will probaly ROI but you'll still be underwater a little on the power supply for it - which you can then use on a newer machine.

If your electric is over 8 cents/KWH I doubt you'll get ROI on the S5 itself ever - only way that would happen would be for bitcoin value to increase faster than diffuculty for the next several months.

The RATE of difficulty increases has gone up a LOT in the last month, compared to the first half of the year, while the value of Bitcoin had a jump during the Greek crisis but seems to be slowly settling back down some. I'd anticipate another jump in the month or so before the halfing occurs, but I don't see a high probability of any other event that will enhance Bitcoin value in the next year.

Erkallys

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Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 05, 2015, 08:27:04 PM

Quote from: Erkallys on August 05, 2015, 07:00:19 PM

Quote from: kodokbuduk on August 05, 2015, 01:32:40 AM

Bitmain is selling their used S5 because i think they are upgrading to S7. They got S7 already. So they are using new S7 and sell that used S5, hundred or may be thousand of them...
So is it really worth it?? I dont think so..if they are releasing S7 now, they wont be able to sell used S5 at this price...or may be no one is looking for it..Wait for S7!

Will it not have the S6 before ? And when the S6 (or S7) will be out ? Also I think it will be more expensive.

No the S6 is going to be skipped, for now the S4+ is it. Those a rack mounted format. Maybe they will go back to S6 for the next gen rack mount ASIC but they said they would announce the S7 SoonTM.

Ok. I didn't know this, but I'll buy the S5.

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: Erkallys on August 05, 2015, 07:00:19 PM

Quote from: kodokbuduk on August 05, 2015, 01:32:40 AM

Bitmain is selling their used S5 because i think they are upgrading to S7. They got S7 already. So they are using new S7 and sell that used S5, hundred or may be thousand of them...
So is it really worth it?? I dont think so..if they are releasing S7 now, they wont be able to sell used S5 at this price...or may be no one is looking for it..Wait for S7!

Will it not have the S6 before ? And when the S6 (or S7) will be out ? Also I think it will be more expensive.

No the S6 is going to be skipped, for now the S4+ is it. Those a rack mounted format. Maybe they will go back to S6 for the next gen rack mount ASIC but they said they would announce the S7 SoonTM.

Erkallys

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Quote from: kodokbuduk on August 05, 2015, 01:32:40 AM

Bitmain is selling their used S5 because i think they are upgrading to S7. They got S7 already. So they are using new S7 and sell that used S5, hundred or may be thousand of them...
So is it really worth it?? I dont think so..if they are releasing S7 now, they wont be able to sell used S5 at this price...or may be no one is looking for it..Wait for S7!

Will it not have the S6 before ? And when the S6 (or S7) will be out ? Also I think it will be more expensive.

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: HerbPean on August 04, 2015, 05:39:58 PM

Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 04, 2015, 10:49:40 AM

Daily update; Bitmain still hasnt shipped pre august 5 date. The text said "No later than 5th august" so they're not technically late yet but i'm not particularly impressed by the shipping time at the moment.

If it hasnt shipped by the time i wake up tomorrow, i wonder what i will do, since it will be 6th august in China.
Should i argue that i paid before they closed the thread and changed the text to "Shipping starts from August 14th after receiving full payment."?

I wonder what they would reply, but i hope it doesnt come to that. 9+ more days of waiting would be unacceptable.

bitmain is really solid about their shipping schedule. I would be really surprise they don't honor their date.

Looks like you were right, they shipped today. So they honored the "no later than 5th august" for me that bought hours before they closed the sell offer and changed to August 14th.

It's my first time buying directly from Bitmain, but regardless i'm rather distrustful so i'd say this is a good start point with my experience with Bitmain, even though it could had been a bit faster.

It look like i will be able to give a mini review on the state of the S5. So far it look like it was 50$~ more than if i had picked up some S5 offer from seller in the US, i hope the coupon they give to those who buy used S5 cover the fact that they are actually used unit.

kodokbuduk

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Quote from: jelin1984 on August 02, 2015, 07:25:08 PM

Yes it worth

Better not.. dont buy used S5. Bitmain is mining aswell, using S5 (hundred may be thousands of them). They are upgrading to new S7... So they are selling their used S5/refurbish S5 first till all gone, then they are releasing new S7 to the public.

kodokbuduk

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Bitmain is selling their used S5 because i think they are upgrading to S7. They got S7 already. So they are using new S7 and sell that used S5, hundred or may be thousand of them...
So is it really worth it?? I dont think so..if they are releasing S7 now, they wont be able to sell used S5 at this price...or may be no one is looking for it..Wait for S7!

HerbPean

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Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 04, 2015, 10:49:40 AM

Daily update; Bitmain still hasnt shipped pre august 5 date. The text said "No later than 5th august" so they're not technically late yet but i'm not particularly impressed by the shipping time at the moment.

If it hasnt shipped by the time i wake up tomorrow, i wonder what i will do, since it will be 6th august in China.
Should i argue that i paid before they closed the thread and changed the text to "Shipping starts from August 14th after receiving full payment."?

I wonder what they would reply, but i hope it doesnt come to that. 9+ more days of waiting would be unacceptable.

bitmain is really solid about their shipping schedule. I would be really surprise they don't honor their date.

VirosaGITS

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Daily update; Bitmain still hasnt shipped pre august 5 date. The text said "No later than 5th august" so they're not technically late yet but i'm not particularly impressed by the shipping time at the moment.

If it hasnt shipped by the time i wake up tomorrow, i wonder what i will do, since it will be 6th august in China.
Should i argue that i paid before they closed the thread and changed the text to "Shipping starts from August 14th after receiving full payment."?

I wonder what they would reply, but i hope it doesnt come to that. 9+ more days of waiting would be unacceptable.

-droid-

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Quote from: notlist3d on August 03, 2015, 04:29:24 PM

Are you serious on the pay less electricity then them? I have no idea what bitmain is paying.... but I doubt many hobby miners can come close.

Yeah with the productions scale these guys have and the fact they are in china, i bet they are paying dirt cheap for power

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: notlist3d on August 03, 2015, 04:29:24 PM

Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 03, 2015, 04:22:50 PM

Quote from: notlist3d on August 03, 2015, 04:17:41 PM

Here is the question I have to ask on second hand gear. If it's worth Bitmain sending someone out to their farm and unplugging it, then sending it to a customer for X amount..... should I really be interested in that gear at X amount?

I respect them for saying it has been used. If they want to get rid of it at that price I personally cant see why I would want to add to my farm at that price.

If you pay less for electricity than them, sure? It's still ethically dubious... With the home miner dying and the hash centralizing, it look like they arent even making the effort to hide what they're doing. They could have put them back through QR, cleaned them and sold them as refurbished, but no... They aren't even bothering, they are selling units they ran in their own farm (so they says themselves) and aren't even bothering cleaning them etc. xD

It depends on what the cleaning is. If it's just the fan and finds of heatsink I don't mind doing the cleaning if it would save me money. But if it's so bad it's down to thermal paste I would prefer not to clean.

Are you serious on the pay less electricity then them? I have no idea what bitmain is paying.... but I doubt many hobby miners can come close.

I am serious, but it is also rhetorical for most. Unless you pay a flat fee for your electricity or you find another way of having "free" electricity, you probably cannot compete, no.

I hope there's no need to mess with the thermal paste, that would be icky as hell, but the user that reported the miners being "dirty as hell" was indeed just the heatsink i believe. It's true its not a big deal but how much effort really would it have been for them to take 1.3 seconds to blow the dust away with compressed air?

notlist3d

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Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 03, 2015, 04:22:50 PM

Quote from: notlist3d on August 03, 2015, 04:17:41 PM

Here is the question I have to ask on second hand gear. If it's worth Bitmain sending someone out to their farm and unplugging it, then sending it to a customer for X amount..... should I really be interested in that gear at X amount?

I respect them for saying it has been used. If they want to get rid of it at that price I personally cant see why I would want to add to my farm at that price.

If you pay less for electricity than them, sure? It's still ethically dubious... With the home miner dying and the hash centralizing, it look like they arent even making the effort to hide what they're doing. They could have put them back through QR, cleaned them and sold them as refurbished, but no... They aren't even bothering, they are selling units they ran in their own farm (so they says themselves) and aren't even bothering cleaning them etc. xD

It depends on what the cleaning is. If it's just the fan and finds of heatsink I don't mind doing the cleaning if it would save me money. But if it's so bad it's down to thermal paste I would prefer not to clean.

Are you serious on the pay less electricity then them? I have no idea what bitmain is paying.... but I doubt many hobby miners can come close.

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: Minerkev on August 03, 2015, 04:15:05 PM

I can buy myself a new car, drive 1000km and sell it to you for the price like new ones...its second hand no worries Wink

Yeah and they really picked the worse term "Second Hand" to say the units are used. "Only used for 40 days in our farm!". Haha =/

Quote from: notlist3d on August 03, 2015, 04:17:41 PM

Here is the question I have to ask on second hand gear. If it's worth Bitmain sending someone out to their farm and unplugging it, then sending it to a customer for X amount..... should I really be interested in that gear at X amount?

I respect them for saying it has been used. If they want to get rid of it at that price I personally cant see why I would want to add to my farm at that price.

If you pay less for electricity than them, sure? It's still ethically dubious... With the home miner dying and the hash centralizing, it look like they arent even making the effort to hide what they're doing. They could have put them back through QR, cleaned them and sold them as refurbished, but no... They aren't even bothering, they are selling units they ran in their own farm (so they says themselves) and aren't even bothering cleaning them etc. xD

notlist3d

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Here is the question I have to ask on second hand gear. If it's worth Bitmain sending someone out to their farm and unplugging it, then sending it to a customer for X amount..... should I really be interested in that gear at X amount?

I respect them for saying it has been used. If they want to get rid of it at that price I personally cant see why I would want to add to my farm at that price.

Minerkev

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I can buy myself a new car, drive 1000km and sell it to you for the price like new ones...its second hand no worries Wink

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: Erkallys on August 03, 2015, 03:56:11 PM

Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 02, 2015, 06:40:29 PM

According to Bitmain they have been used for 40~ days and handled by them, so if the unit you receive was actually handled professionally and properly used and then packaged back to you, the unit should be fine and if it ran 40 days, it might have weeded out a good portion of the defective units.

I ordered a used unit so, if you want, i could report back when i get it, but i am not sure when i'll get it. I picked UPS as option since it was cheaper but i don't know which international service it use. It is possible i get it this week. (Maybe)

Quote from: jelin1984 on August 02, 2015, 07:25:08 PM

Yes it worth

Thank you guys. But it says that their last ship is August 5th, so I'll not be able to have your testimony. I'll trust you and order one, thank you Wink

.

Edit : they changed the description. Now it says that they will ship after August 14th.

Yeah the pre August 5th "batch" sold out i guess. They are rolling out batches of used S5 so yeah, they are rolling in batches of S#Unknowns.

Quote from: Erkallys on August 03, 2015, 04:06:33 PM

Quote from: gablay12 on August 03, 2015, 04:04:23 PM

Dear friend you will be sure that it works.

Does it worth?It depends on your parameters (electricity price, rent, etc).

For me, yes it worths.I recommend you check warranty issues.

When I said worth, I asked if the S5 will not die after only 2-3 monthes. And it seems that it will not.

It is possible, the failure rate of S5 is a few %, but if the unit was ran for a while, the life expectancy will be partially used but the odds of it lasting its life is higher, since you remove the DoA/near instant death from the failure rate %.

Topic: Second hand S5 for Bitmain, are they worth ? - page 3. (Read 4015 times)