SegWit and LN are really interesting altcoins... but that is not Bitcoin. - page 6.

franky1

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on October 14, 2016, 03:26:07 PM

Quote from: franky1 on October 14, 2016, 03:23:27 PM

its the same concept as locking bitcoins into an address and playing with litecoins for payments. litecoin transactions cannot be bradcast to bitcoin there needs to be a conversion of the units back as bitcoins and then signed before broadcasting to bitcoin.

No it's not. Show me the part of the Lightning design documents where it says Lightning "units" need to be converted to and from Bitcoin. You're making it all up.

MILLISATS

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: franky1 on October 14, 2016, 03:23:27 PM

its the same concept as locking bitcoins into an address and playing with litecoins for payments. litecoin transactions cannot be bradcast to bitcoin there needs to be a conversion of the units back as bitcoins and then signed before broadcasting to bitcoin.

No it's not. Show me the part of the Lightning design documents where it says Lightning "units" need to be converted to and from Bitcoin. You're making it all up.

AgentofCoin

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Quote from: TKeenan on October 14, 2016, 02:58:42 PM

Why does Core call everything an 'alt' but their wildly variant version of Bitcoin gets entitled to be 'the Bitcoin'?

Don't be fooled: SegWit is the alt. Lightning is the alt. These radical changes are being forced into the network because Blockstream has been able to convince a few Chinese miners (not decentralized) to follow their stupidly dangerous plan.

Every crypto-currency that was created after Bitcoin, is automatically an altcoin.
Altcoin means that it is an "alternative coin" to "Bitcoin", since Bitcoin was the first.

SegWit is not an altcoin since it is still the Bitcoin blockchain.
All that SegWit does is split the single Bitcoin merkle root, into two Bitcoin merkle roots.

Lightning Network is not an altcoin since there is no PoW, blockchain, or etc.
LN is just a relay network that relies on, is pegged to, and exists on top of the Bitcoin blockchain.
It is a rapid bitcoin clearance facilitator layer. It is basically a bitcoin backed escrow layer.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: BiTZeD on October 14, 2016, 03:22:20 PM

For me, anything aside from the original godly Satoshi work is bad and need to be stopped since it will lead to further corruption.

Do it. Go back to version 0.1 (satoshis "original godly work"). Have fun.

franky1

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on October 14, 2016, 03:19:59 PM

I fail to see how a bunch of waffle about channel closing and unit rounding and means that the Lightning transactions are not sending Bitcoin.

It starts as Bitcoin.
Then it gets to the recipient as Bitcoin.

Your desperate word-salad is not going to work

blockstreams LN concept the same concept as locking bitcoins into an address and then playing with millisat coins for payments using a totally different node.
millisat coin transactions cannot be broadcast to bitcoin,
there needs to be a conversion of the millisatcoins back to bitcoins and then signed before broadcasting to bitcoin.

the only thing carlton forgets or doesnt know is
millisatcoin is a 1:1000 peg to bitcoin ... a peg, not an actual bitcoin
a different node not actually bitcoin node.
a memool not an actual blockchain

BiTZeD

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For me, anything aside from the original godly Satoshi work is bad and need to be stopped since it will lead to further corruption.

Carlton Banks

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I fail to see how a bunch of waffle about channel closing and unit rounding means that the Lightning transactions are not sending Bitcoin.

It starts as Bitcoin.
Then it gets to the recipient as Bitcoin.

Your desperate word-salad is not going to work

TKeenan

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on October 14, 2016, 03:10:28 PM

Segwit and Lightning both transact Bitcoins, on the Bitcoin network.

You're relying on your audience being too stupid or too lazy to check this for themselves. That's not a very good strategy, anyone can check for themselves, and confirm you're talking nonsense.

Omni transacts Bitcoin on the Bitcoin network. Counterparty does too. Your definition is completely fucking stupid. Nearly all of your responses are similarly so.

Lots and lots of possible alts 'transact Bitcoins, on the Bitcoin network. '

LN is WILDLY different that the original protocol. SegWit is VERY different than the original notion of signature. These are enormous changes being marketed as 'Bitcoin tweeks'. They are actual not Bitcoin, and they are not tweeks.

Blockstream proposes a very different cryptocurrency - and the control commit access to make it appear to be 'Bitcoin'.

Blockstream is not Bitcoin.

as for carlton.. ignore him he knows nothing about LN

Quote from: Carlton Banks on October 14, 2016, 02:39:18 PM

Lol, I'm not going to check the details, just so i can speak to you, it's a waste of time after all

Carlton is a moron best ignored in all his fanatic Blockstream defenses. Does Blockstream pay him?

franky1

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agreed LN in its blockstream concept is an alt.

the 'payments' performed within blockstreams LN are not bitcoin compatible.
the units of measure are different. so a signed LN 'payment' cannot be simply broadcast into bitcoin.

it requires rounding the altcoin to then be measured as a satoshi equivalent and then resigned. which only happens on closing the channel.
some say that its bitcoin due to using the same privkeys.
but then we come to the contraversial forks which use the same privkeys. so again an altcoin.

unless an LN concept uses the same units of measure any the LN 'signed payment' can at anytime be broadcast to bitcoin without needing to create a new tx just to close the payment session.. its an altcoin

segwit however is within bitcoin..

as for carlton.. ignore him he knows nothing about LN

Quote from: Carlton Banks on October 14, 2016, 02:39:18 PM

Lol, I'm not going to check the details, just so i can speak to you, it's a waste of time after all

as proven

Carlton Banks

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Segwit and Lightning both transact Bitcoins, on the Bitcoin network.

You're relying on your audience being too stupid or too lazy to check this for themselves. That's not a very good strategy, anyone can check for themselves, and confirm you're talking nonsense.

TKeenan

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Activity: 874

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Why does Core call everything an 'alt' but their wildly variant version of Bitcoin gets entitled to be 'the Bitcoin'?

Don't be fooled: SegWit is the alt. Lightning is the alt. These radical changes are being forced into the network because Blockstream has been able to convince a few Chinese miners (not decentralized) to follow their stupidly dangerous plan.

Topic: SegWit and LN are really interesting altcoins... but that is not Bitcoin. - page 6. (Read 3571 times)