I would suggest solution to the impasse with SegWit: to change the name to something more respectful of the Chinese miners, to carry out faithfully executed the diplomatic mission to China, and to propose new solutions for scaling taking into account the cultural peculiarities of China.
what is wrong with SegWit name? Why do you think it's not respectful to the Chinese miners? Actually there's no problem with chinese miners, they don't have anything against Segwit, it's only in the heads of several BU shills. Eventually all miners accept segwit, they just need more time. 
Topic: Segwit on Bitcoin has Failed , BTC Core has Lost , The Miners have Won - page 2. (Read 4516 times)
February 15, 2017, 09:44:42 AM
February 15, 2017, 09:28:34 AM
Segwit needs 95% to activate.
Current Numbers
https://coin.dance/blocks
Explicit Mining Pool Support by Proposal
SegWit 24.6%
Bitcoin Unlimited 18.3%
8 MB Blocks 7.5%
If the current Voters for Bitcoin Unlimited and 8 MB Blocks do not change their votes, (either alone is enough to block segwit)
Segwit will NEVER ATTAIN the 95% needed.
Segwit is DEAD!
Suggest BTC core start working on a blocksize increase solution ASAP, because no matter what else happens Segwit is Dead on Arrival.
I would suggest solution to the impasse with SegWit: to change the name to something more respectful of the Chinese miners, to carry out faithfully executed the diplomatic mission to China, and to propose new solutions for scaling taking into account the cultural peculiarities of China. Current Numbers
https://coin.dance/blocks
Explicit Mining Pool Support by Proposal
SegWit 24.6%
Bitcoin Unlimited 18.3%
8 MB Blocks 7.5%
If the current Voters for Bitcoin Unlimited and 8 MB Blocks do not change their votes, (either alone is enough to block segwit)
Segwit will NEVER ATTAIN the 95% needed.
Segwit is DEAD!
Suggest BTC core start working on a blocksize increase solution ASAP, because no matter what else happens Segwit is Dead on Arrival.
February 15, 2017, 07:45:25 AM
Edit: *sigh* "It’s common for full nodes on high-speed connections to use 200 gigabytes upload or more a month. Download usage is around 20 gigabytes a month, plus around an additional 100 gigabytes the first time you start your node." I guess that I will not have a full node after all 
all dependant on how many connections to other nodes you have.
less connections = less bandwidth usage
And as far I understand Jonas Schnelli had done sth for limiting this upload traffic a bit, by some parameter - not sure if this is part of BU?
February 15, 2017, 06:00:38 AM
Edit: *sigh* "It’s common for full nodes on high-speed connections to use 200 gigabytes upload or more a month. Download usage is around 20 gigabytes a month, plus around an additional 100 gigabytes the first time you start your node." I guess that I will not have a full node after all
all dependant on how many connections to other nodes you have.
less connections = less bandwidth usage
February 15, 2017, 04:59:53 AM
I sympathize a little with your outrage. However, I don't believe that there is another way. Your options -- from the sidelines -- are few.
- Sell all your BTC and leave it all behind, thereby unnoticeably reducing the price (such would be a lever for large groups, but inconsequential for individuals)
- Buck up buttercup and fire up a node. Joining the network makes your voice heard. Any given node still has essentially zero real power, but at least you can signal your preferences.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I think that's about all your options.
- Sell all your BTC and leave it all behind, thereby unnoticeably reducing the price (such would be a lever for large groups, but inconsequential for individuals)
- Buck up buttercup and fire up a node. Joining the network makes your voice heard. Any given node still has essentially zero real power, but at least you can signal your preferences.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I think that's about all your options.
No, you did good. You are perfectly correct.
Informed answers are always helpful, even if they are bad news.
I will start doing some homework. Maybe I will actually make a node.
I just don't have enough time right now to read all the info I need. But maybe....
Edit: *sigh* "It’s common for full nodes on high-speed connections to use 200 gigabytes upload or more a month. Download usage is around 20 gigabytes a month, plus around an additional 100 gigabytes the first time you start your node." I guess that I will not have a full node after all
February 15, 2017, 04:54:21 AM
I think bitcoin need a update because the transaction per second maybe more people care about it.
February 15, 2017, 04:49:21 AM
"The miners have Won". Since anyone in the public can be a miner, the phase changes to "The public has won".
Hmm, Nope
Can you be a cloud miner, sure but Cloud miners always lose more than they make, they would have been better off just to buy BTC than trying to mine it.
The real question, is can Anyone be a Profitable Miner, for that you need a few million dollars of capital to invest.
Most people can not afford the start up cost, so sorry anyone can't be a BTC miner (it is a myth that has been dead for years.)
And that's what I try to say: If you have done this kind of investment, you might have just enough capital to set up a vast majority of nodes i.o. to over-rule non-miner interests entirely.
February 15, 2017, 04:17:16 AM
"The miners have Won". Since anyone in the public can be a miner, the phase changes to "The public has won".
Hmm, Nope
Can you be a cloud miner, sure but Cloud miners always lose more than they make, they would have been better off just to buy BTC than trying to mine it.
The real question, is can Anyone be a Profitable Miner, for that you need a few million dollars of capital to invest.
Most people can not afford the start up cost, so sorry anyone can't be a BTC miner (it is a myth that has been dead for years.)
February 15, 2017, 03:59:47 AM
So hate to break it to you , In a PoW coin the Miners are your Daddy.
If you don't have enough to stake, then they would be your daddy.
But if you have enough coins to stake even once when you need it, You are one of the Elite. Because you can guarantee your transaction is entered.
And it is a alot easier to stake than become a BTC PoW miner.
FYI:
Little side note for you ,
PoS stakers add transactions in the order they were created, they don't charge fees to let someone else jump in front of them.
They may still be your Daddy if you don't Stake, but unlike BTC, they don't play favorites, they love all of you rugrats exactly the same.
FYI2:
Add fairness to BTC with PoS , is one thing Theymos was trying to do in the following topic.
Idea for an altcoin: 3-way hybrid PoW
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/idea-for-an-altcoin-3-way-hybrid-pow-1654457
February 15, 2017, 03:54:42 AM
"The miners have Won". Since anyone in the public can be a miner, the phase changes to "The public has won".
Gavin Andressen once compared bitcoin to stone money of Yap. In New York City using construction union wages, what would be the cost of transporting one stone of yap currency to Japan? $100 $5000? Say it is $5000, then how much is a stone worth $500,000. That is what is going to happen to bitcoin.
USD = medium of exchange
capital = and object made of matter used to make more wealth
wealth = objects of value
In a couple years when ssd's become supercheap block size will increase, however 100-1000 years of low cost storage must be assured before this happens.
Gavin Andressen once compared bitcoin to stone money of Yap. In New York City using construction union wages, what would be the cost of transporting one stone of yap currency to Japan? $100 $5000? Say it is $5000, then how much is a stone worth $500,000. That is what is going to happen to bitcoin.
USD = medium of exchange
capital = and object made of matter used to make more wealth
wealth = objects of value
In a couple years when ssd's become supercheap block size will increase, however 100-1000 years of low cost storage must be assured before this happens.
February 15, 2017, 03:31:01 AM
So hate to break it to you , In a PoW coin the Miners are your Daddy.
February 15, 2017, 03:27:52 AM
You are wrong. The miners are not overlords, they are partners. If they foul, the community can ignore the blocks of the bad guys.
Confusion is really your state of being.
Really last time, I checked Partners shared the profit,
I don't know about you but no miner has send me my share of BTC profit.
Example you want segwit & LN and all of the Fractional reserve banking it will bring,
But the miners are refusing to implement it , and what can you do about it, not anything at all.
February 15, 2017, 03:20:47 AM
You are wrong. The miners are not overlords, they are partners. If they foul, the community can ignore the blocks of the bad guys.
February 15, 2017, 03:17:33 AM
I would like to see Off-Chain and Sub-Chain solutions. This is much better than the current centralization with 5-10 miners. Competition is a good thing.
BTW competition is not stealing!
When you compete with someone else , you are not locking that other person in place where they can not compete with you.BTW competition is not stealing!
LN Locks BTC in Place ONCHAIN, once locked there can be no future transactions fees for the miners on that amount of BTC until LN releases the lock.
However LN can makes an infinite amount of transaction fees OFFCHAIN on that locked amount, while for the miners it is frozen.
Why do you always talk about LN?! I wrote Off-Chain and Sub-Chain in general!
Off-Chain and Sub-Chain transactions need the blockchain anyway. There is no law that a crypto transaction might not be made without a miner taxing this transaction!
You seem to think that the Bitcoin communitys only purpose is to support the miners. That is wrong - the miners job is to support Bitcoin!
This again is where you are confused who your daddy is?
BTC is a worthless piece of nothingness , unless their are Miners to move the BTC around and include transactions.
So hate to break it to you , In a PoW coin the Miners are your Daddy.
You want freedom, you either have to be a PoW miner or a PoS Staker, just buying a coin gives you ZERO control over it, you are completely dependent on the miners or stakers.
February 15, 2017, 03:16:37 AM
Not all of the miners are blocking changes. If most of the nodes accept a change these nodes can ignore new blocks that do not flag support for the change. This way the nodes can create economic pressure to miners blocking changes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for big mining companies running enough nodes to ensure their interests is a fraction of their entire investment. So I expect miners overrule existing node count if sth is against their interests. The node count doesn't matter in this case. If a miner runs thousands of nodes he can relay his own block within his node pool but he cannot force any other node to relay/accept this block.
February 15, 2017, 03:12:59 AM
I would like to see Off-Chain and Sub-Chain solutions. This is much better than the current centralization with 5-10 miners. Competition is a good thing.
BTW competition is not stealing!
When you compete with someone else , you are not locking that other person in place where they can not compete with you.BTW competition is not stealing!
LN Locks BTC in Place ONCHAIN, once locked there can be no future transactions fees for the miners on that amount of BTC until LN releases the lock.
However LN can makes an infinite amount of transaction fees OFFCHAIN on that locked amount, while for the miners it is frozen.
Why do you always talk about LN?! I wrote Off-Chain and Sub-Chain in general!
Off-Chain and Sub-Chain transactions need the blockchain anyway. There is no law that a crypto transaction might not be made without a miner taxing this transaction!
You seem to think that the Bitcoin communitys only purpose is to support the miners. That is wrong - the miners job is to support Bitcoin!
February 15, 2017, 03:06:19 AM
Miners only receive transaction fees for the individual blocks they include transactions in.
Right. So Off-Chain Transaktions, selling Casascius Coins and other transactions outside of the blocks will not steal transaction fees from miners!Unlimited transactions could occur OFFCHAIN,
that amount of transactions will be stolen from the miners as a whole, decreasing the total amount of transactions from them to choose from ONCHAIN, Dufus.
I would like to see Off-Chain and Sub-Chain solutions. This is much better than the current centralization with 5-10 miners. Competition is a good thing.
BTW competition is not stealing!
How to get the miners to allow competition against themselves. Most of them might see this behind SW. The bounty = 'keep 1MB limit' they don't want to swallow....
Not all of the miners are blocking changes. If most of the nodes accept a change these nodes can ignore new blocks that do not flag support for the change. This way the nodes can create economic pressure to miners blocking changes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for big mining companies running enough nodes to ensure their interests is a fraction of their entire investment. So I expect miners overrule existing node count if sth is against their interests.
February 15, 2017, 03:06:01 AM
Not all of the miners are blocking changes. If most of the nodes accept a change these nodes can ignore new blocks that do not flag support for the change. This way the nodes can create economic pressure to miners blocking changes.
LOL,
The miners that are refusing to let LN steal from them are ~70% of all of the miners.
All the 30% can do , is what you are doing , whining about it.
You really want BTC changed and LN activated, spend a few Billion Dollars on Warehouses loaded with ASICS, until you get over 51%,
then BTC Corrupt Core can hardfork anytime they like, until that day however you are a passenger, not a driver.
February 15, 2017, 02:59:23 AM
Miners only receive transaction fees for the individual blocks they include transactions in.
Right. So Off-Chain Transaktions, selling Casascius Coins and other transactions outside of the blocks will not steal transaction fees from miners!Unlimited transactions could occur OFFCHAIN,
that amount of transactions will be stolen from the miners as a whole, decreasing the total amount of transactions from them to choose from ONCHAIN, Dufus.
I would like to see Off-Chain and Sub-Chain solutions. This is much better than the current centralization with 5-10 miners. Competition is a good thing.
BTW competition is not stealing!
How to get the miners to allow competition against themselves. Most of them might see this behind SW. The bounty = 'keep 1MB limit' they don't want to swallow....
Not all of the miners are blocking changes. If most of the nodes accept a change these nodes can ignore new blocks that do not flag support for the change. This way the nodes can create economic pressure to miners blocking changes.
February 15, 2017, 02:36:22 AM
I would like to see Off-Chain and Sub-Chain solutions. This is much better than the current centralization with 5-10 miners. Competition is a good thing.
BTW competition is not stealing!
BTW competition is not stealing!
When you compete with someone else , you are not locking that other person in place where they can not compete with you.
LN Locks BTC in Place ONCHAIN, once locked there can be no future transactions fees for the miners on that amount of BTC until LN releases the lock.
However LN can makes an infinite amount of transaction fees OFFCHAIN on that locked amount, while for the miners it is frozen.
Stealing is an accurate description of what LN will do to the miners.
They are stealing the ability of the miners to make transaction fees from the Locked BTC.
To get a Competition you need Litecoin or another Altcoins, because at no time , does one directly block the other from receiving transaction fees.
(They are competing against each other.)
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