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Topic: Seizing BTC wallet holders? Governments should be afraid to do it (Read 5246 times)

legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
The answer is multi-signing
Am I right in remembering that an implemented multi-sig wallet format doesn't yet exist, but is at the BIP stage? We have multi-sig public keys, that I know.

It is implemented, and you can do it from command line. There just isn't any GUI yet, because devs don't want people accidentally locking and/or losing their coins. Gavin said this is his top priority this summer. Summer is almost over. Hopefully Gavin is almost done  Grin
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3071
The answer is multi-signing

Ah yes! Cryptocurrency innovations come so thick and fast that I forget certain things if I only read about it once, god bless the hive mind that is bitcointalk! (mostly... Grin)

Am I right in remembering that an implemented multi-sig wallet format doesn't yet exist, but is at the BIP stage? We have multi-sig public keys, that I know.
member
Activity: 102
Merit: 10
The answer is multi-signing
sr. member
Activity: 351
Merit: 250

Charlie Shrem has a curious twist on the concept: engraving a private key onto a ring, but with one character missing. That missing character is his brainwallet, effectively.

Here's a very well written, thought provoking story about leaving out 1 character of your private key...

http://thewhet.net/2012/shall-be-delivered/

hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
You should have on your disposal a tel no where somebody is speaking only in an exotic language, like zulu and if you are under pressure then you can tell to the agents that temporary only this person has your password for your laptop and/or bitcoin wallet. It is a good method also by crossing the border.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
They can extract the data from your brain.
They will send you to torture camp in some eastern European country and extract your password.
I will tell them what my password is. And they'll even get my bitcoins. They'll just have no idea if they took all of my bitcoins, or just a small fraction of them.

P.S. I have very few bitcoins, and am almost out of them.   ...    Wink
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1001
RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME
^^^ And this is why we need built-in mixing, anonymizing, or Zerocoin.

SHHHHH! In time, in time.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
They can extract the data from your brain.
They will send you to torture camp in some eastern European country and extract your password.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3071
Brain wallet holders will render it useless.

I'd suggest the opposite. It's already been demonstrated, by theft of bitcoin, that people cannot pick random passphrases, but rather rely on phrases from movies, books, etc.

Additionally, the password crackers are becoming more sophisticated, cracking up to 55 character passwords(http://www.zdnet.com/password-breaker-successfully-tackles-55-character-sequences-7000019891/) based on extensive word / phrase lists.

Truecrypt with plausible deniability. http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/plausible-deniability.

This is all too true.

There was a thread recently where a Brainwallet.org user picked a very simple seed (as a trial run, only small quantity of BTC was transferred to the wallet). Someone out there was running a script that checked for really naive brain wallet seeds and emptying such wallets, and the same person posted back in the thread to let the OP know how it had happened to them.

I don't know what the best advice is: I've heard that even using 12+ word seeds can be discovered if you use dictionary or popular culture words, in English or any other language. So, Brainwallets are only secure from rainbow table style fishing when the seed is well chosen, and that the wallet file is created from the seed in a secure environment also. Do your best to get as much information about what the issues surrounding the creation of a secure brain wallet is before you try it, even if a key has been safe for a given time period, you cannot assume it always will be.
 
Charlie Shrem has a curious twist on the concept: engraving a private key onto a ring, but with one character missing. That missing character is his brainwallet, effectively.
sr. member
Activity: 552
Merit: 250
They can extract the data from your brain.

If by "they" you mean the voices in your head, then very well.

Hint: torture
sr. member
Activity: 351
Merit: 250
Brain wallet holders will render it useless.

I'd suggest the opposite. It's already been demonstrated, by theft of bitcoin, that people cannot pick random passphrases, but rather rely on phrases from movies, books, etc.

Additionally, the password crackers are becoming more sophisticated, cracking up to 55 character passwords(http://www.zdnet.com/password-breaker-successfully-tackles-55-character-sequences-7000019891/) based on extensive word / phrase lists.

Truecrypt with plausible deniability. http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/plausible-deniability.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3071
They can extract the data from your brain.

If by "they" you mean the voices in your head, then very well.
b!z
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1010
They can extract the data from your brain.
legendary
Activity: 1552
Merit: 1047
Yes sorry about that, should have said "hash" instead of "encryption".
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3071
Carlton Banks: Again, a technicality. The private keys are generated from your password, the law don't care if private keys are unencrypted, the password is key to protected information and that is where the law applies.

There is no password, there is no encryption. Sheesh.
The private key is information that can be reconstructed by your password stored in your brain. That would classify as protected information and likely fall under this specific law that we are discussing.

So even though you understand the concept, you still use the wrong language to describe it? Strange behaviour.
legendary
Activity: 1552
Merit: 1047
You're guilty until you can prove otherwise. How can you prove without shadow of doubt that you don't have the keys in your brain?

My point is from the other direction. Wouldn't they have to show some proof or evidence that you have anything to begin with?
Well if we take a look at the law in question:
For the purposes of this section a person shall be taken to have shown that he was not in possession of a key to protected information at a particular time if—
(a)sufficient evidence of that fact is adduced to raise an issue with respect to it; and
(b)the contrary is not proved beyond a reasonable doubt.


Not being a lawyer, it sounds to me like the burden of proof is on you.

Otherwise they'd have to go start arresting anyone and everyone on suspicion that they might have something in their head.
Well that is probably the idea. The government loves it that way, total power over you.
legendary
Activity: 1552
Merit: 1047
Carlton Banks: Again, a technicality. The private keys are generated from your password, the law don't care if private keys are unencrypted, the password is key to protected information and that is where the law applies.

There is no password, there is no encryption. Sheesh.
The private key is information that can be reconstructed by your password stored in your brain. That would classify as protected information and likely fall under this specific law that we are discussing.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
You're guilty until you can prove otherwise. How can you prove without shadow of doubt that you don't have the keys in your brain?

My point is from the other direction. Wouldn't they have to show some proof or evidence that you have anything to begin with? Otherwise they'd have to go start arresting anyone and everyone on suspicion that they might have something in their head.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3071
Carlton Banks: Again, a technicality. The private keys are generated from your password, the law don't care if private keys are unencrypted, the password is key to protected information and that is where the law applies.

There is no password, there is no encryption. Sheesh.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination

http://decryptedmatrix.com/live/encryption-becomes-illegal-in-the-uk-jail-time-for-failure-to-provide-keys/

The multi-sig concept is great, but if I understand this law correctly it won't matter. If they believe you got the full key you will have to disprove them. Ofc you can't do that.


This law is funny, a police officer could essentially send anyone including president, congressman and bankers into jail using this law, suddenly all the power went to the police officer!  Grin
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