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Topic: Sending without transaction fees (Read 3139 times)

legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
March 06, 2015, 05:51:40 PM
#70
One day I've sent a big transaction of ~5 btc with zero fee and it was confirmed in less than 30 min. Maybe I was lucky or maybe it was the 5 btc I dunno know. Now I put always  0.0001 bitcoin as fee and for me is very fine, it is less than 0,02 $ !

Zero-fee transactions are based on the weight of the transaction, which takes into consideration the input size, output size, and age. If you held 0.1 BTC for a day, you'd already have enough weight to negate the need for fees (if you were sending at least 0.01 BTC). 5 BTC was way overkill for the system.

 I like the term "weight" to mean the size in bytes. Generally, the "size" of a transaction is considered to be its value, so a term like "weight", which also implies a burden, is better. I'm going to use it from now on.

Weight is in relation to its importance in the network, NOT its cost. Higher weight = higher priority to be added. I think you're getting terms confused here. In fact, it's the opposite of what you said: higher weight = LESS fees needed, since it's already a high-priority transaction.

I didn't read your post closely enough. I still prefer the "weight" of a transaction to be the size in bytes, even though there still might be some confusion. Is there precedence in using the term weight to me importance of the transaction? Is there a better term that could be used?

Very good question. In the crypto world, verbiage is always being changed. For example, some still count BTCs in bitcoins, while others do it in bits.

Weight is one of those things... but it's pretty common to use the term "stake weight" to determine your power on the network (i.e. chances of staking a block, relative to others), and that's so widespread that I think changing it would only cause more confusion.

I do agree that "size" has an unclear definition, as well. Size could be bytes or it could be coins being sent. It's often used interchangeably and really shouldn't be.

What we need is a solid group of definitions that everyone pulls from.
legendary
Activity: 4466
Merit: 3391
March 06, 2015, 05:00:40 PM
#69
One day I've sent a big transaction of ~5 btc with zero fee and it was confirmed in less than 30 min. Maybe I was lucky or maybe it was the 5 btc I dunno know. Now I put always  0.0001 bitcoin as fee and for me is very fine, it is less than 0,02 $ !

Zero-fee transactions are based on the weight of the transaction, which takes into consideration the input size, output size, and age. If you held 0.1 BTC for a day, you'd already have enough weight to negate the need for fees (if you were sending at least 0.01 BTC). 5 BTC was way overkill for the system.

 I like the term "weight" to mean the size in bytes. Generally, the "size" of a transaction is considered to be its value, so a term like "weight", which also implies a burden, is better. I'm going to use it from now on.

Weight is in relation to its importance in the network, NOT its cost. Higher weight = higher priority to be added. I think you're getting terms confused here. In fact, it's the opposite of what you said: higher weight = LESS fees needed, since it's already a high-priority transaction.

I didn't read your post closely enough. I still prefer the "weight" of a transaction to be the size in bytes, even though there still might be some confusion. Is there precedence in using the term weight to me importance of the transaction? Is there a better term that could be used?
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Bro, you need to try http://dadice.com
March 06, 2015, 03:23:20 PM
#68

One day I've sent a big transaction of ~5 btc with zero fee and it was confirmed in less than 30 min. Maybe I was lucky or maybe it was the 5 btc I dunno know. Now I put always  0.0001 bitcoin as fee and for me is very fine, it is less than 0,02 $ !

Zero-fee transactions are based on the weight of the transaction, which takes into consideration the input size, output size, and age. If you held 0.1 BTC for a day, you'd already have enough weight to negate the need for fees (if you were sending at least 0.01 BTC). 5 BTC was way overkill for the system.

 I like the term "weight" to mean the size in bytes. Generally, the "size" of a transaction is considered to be its value, so a term like "weight", which also implies a burden, is better. I'm going to use it from now on.
Is the weight calculated in the amount of bitcoin or the amount of adresses sending Transactions?
Like 1 adress sends 5 btc or 100 adresses send 0.1 btc together?

The weight/size is calculated in base of how much inputs your transaction has, if it has 2 inputs it will have a little weight instead if it will have 3-4 or more inputs its weight is more than the other (and you should put an "high" fee).

Weight is in relation to its importance in the network, NOT its cost. Higher weight = higher priority to be added. I think you're getting terms confused here. In fact, it's the opposite of what you said: higher weight = LESS fees needed, since it's already a high-priority transaction.

Let's make a little example , this transaction :  https://blockchain.info/en/tx/629b20c359a465dae1f7bee99dadf8eb797e7f1087deca56248388a220c7240a

Size   372 (bytes)     0.0001 BTC btc as fee  |  2 inputs


The size is the weight. If the transaction has more weight it needed "more" fee, now let's suppose that transaction has 1800 byte with only 1000 satoshi as fee. I think it will not confirmed fast as the other. Correct me again if I am wrong.
Wow, thanks for the explanation!
So is it possible that I send 0.01 btc with 100 inputs but no fee, will it still be confirmed as normal, because the size is big or will it be longer than usual/skips blocks?
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
March 06, 2015, 03:15:24 PM
#67
One day I've sent a big transaction of ~5 btc with zero fee and it was confirmed in less than 30 min. Maybe I was lucky or maybe it was the 5 btc I dunno know. Now I put always  0.0001 bitcoin as fee and for me is very fine, it is less than 0,02 $ !

Zero-fee transactions are based on the weight of the transaction, which takes into consideration the input size, output size, and age. If you held 0.1 BTC for a day, you'd already have enough weight to negate the need for fees (if you were sending at least 0.01 BTC). 5 BTC was way overkill for the system.

 I like the term "weight" to mean the size in bytes. Generally, the "size" of a transaction is considered to be its value, so a term like "weight", which also implies a burden, is better. I'm going to use it from now on.
Is the weight calculated in the amount of bitcoin or the amount of adresses sending Transactions?
Like 1 adress sends 5 btc or 100 adresses send 0.1 btc together?

The weight/size is calculated in base of how much inputs your transaction has, if it has 2 inputs it will have a little weight instead if it will have 3-4 or more inputs its weight is more than the other (and you should put an "high" fee).

Weight is in relation to its importance in the network, NOT its cost. Higher weight = higher priority to be added. I think you're getting terms confused here. In fact, it's the opposite of what you said: higher weight = LESS fees needed, since it's already a high-priority transaction.

Let's make a little example , this transaction :  https://blockchain.info/en/tx/629b20c359a465dae1f7bee99dadf8eb797e7f1087deca56248388a220c7240a

Size   372 (bytes)     0.0001 BTC btc as fee  |  2 inputs


The size is the weight. If the transaction has more weight it needed "more" fee, now let's suppose that transaction has 1800 byte with only 1000 satoshi as fee. I think it will not confirmed fast as the other. Correct me again if I am wrong.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
March 06, 2015, 03:10:07 PM
#66
One day I've sent a big transaction of ~5 btc with zero fee and it was confirmed in less than 30 min. Maybe I was lucky or maybe it was the 5 btc I dunno know. Now I put always  0.0001 bitcoin as fee and for me is very fine, it is less than 0,02 $ !

Zero-fee transactions are based on the weight of the transaction, which takes into consideration the input size, output size, and age. If you held 0.1 BTC for a day, you'd already have enough weight to negate the need for fees (if you were sending at least 0.01 BTC). 5 BTC was way overkill for the system.

 I like the term "weight" to mean the size in bytes. Generally, the "size" of a transaction is considered to be its value, so a term like "weight", which also implies a burden, is better. I'm going to use it from now on.
Is the weight calculated in the amount of bitcoin or the amount of adresses sending Transactions?
Like 1 adress sends 5 btc or 100 adresses send 0.1 btc together?

The weight/size is calculated in base of how much inputs your transaction has, if it has 2 inputs it will have a little weight instead if it will have 3-4 or more inputs its weight is more than the other (and you should put an "high" fee).

Weight is in relation to its importance in the network, NOT its cost. Higher weight = higher priority to be added. I think you're getting terms confused here. In fact, it's the opposite of what you said: higher weight = LESS fees needed, since it's already a high-priority transaction.
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
March 06, 2015, 03:02:29 PM
#65
One day I've sent a big transaction of ~5 btc with zero fee and it was confirmed in less than 30 min. Maybe I was lucky or maybe it was the 5 btc I dunno know. Now I put always  0.0001 bitcoin as fee and for me is very fine, it is less than 0,02 $ !

Zero-fee transactions are based on the weight of the transaction, which takes into consideration the input size, output size, and age. If you held 0.1 BTC for a day, you'd already have enough weight to negate the need for fees (if you were sending at least 0.01 BTC). 5 BTC was way overkill for the system.

 I like the term "weight" to mean the size in bytes. Generally, the "size" of a transaction is considered to be its value, so a term like "weight", which also implies a burden, is better. I'm going to use it from now on.
Is the weight calculated in the amount of bitcoin or the amount of adresses sending Transactions?
Like 1 adress sends 5 btc or 100 adresses send 0.1 btc together?

The weight/size is calculated in base of how much inputs your transaction has, if it has 2 inputs it will have a little weight instead if it will have 3-4 or more inputs its weight is more than the other (and you should put an "high" fee).
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Bro, you need to try http://dadice.com
March 06, 2015, 02:57:46 PM
#64
One day I've sent a big transaction of ~5 btc with zero fee and it was confirmed in less than 30 min. Maybe I was lucky or maybe it was the 5 btc I dunno know. Now I put always  0.0001 bitcoin as fee and for me is very fine, it is less than 0,02 $ !

Zero-fee transactions are based on the weight of the transaction, which takes into consideration the input size, output size, and age. If you held 0.1 BTC for a day, you'd already have enough weight to negate the need for fees (if you were sending at least 0.01 BTC). 5 BTC was way overkill for the system.

 I like the term "weight" to mean the size in bytes. Generally, the "size" of a transaction is considered to be its value, so a term like "weight", which also implies a burden, is better. I'm going to use it from now on.
Is the weight calculated in the amount of bitcoin or the amount of adresses sending Transactions?
Like 1 adress sends 5 btc or 100 adresses send 0.1 btc together?
legendary
Activity: 4466
Merit: 3391
March 06, 2015, 02:15:17 PM
#63
One day I've sent a big transaction of ~5 btc with zero fee and it was confirmed in less than 30 min. Maybe I was lucky or maybe it was the 5 btc I dunno know. Now I put always  0.0001 bitcoin as fee and for me is very fine, it is less than 0,02 $ !

Zero-fee transactions are based on the weight of the transaction, which takes into consideration the input size, output size, and age. If you held 0.1 BTC for a day, you'd already have enough weight to negate the need for fees (if you were sending at least 0.01 BTC). 5 BTC was way overkill for the system.

 I like the term "weight" to mean the size in bytes. Generally, the "size" of a transaction is considered to be its value, so a term like "weight", which also implies a burden, is better. I'm going to use it from now on.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
March 06, 2015, 01:26:12 PM
#62
One day I've sent a big transaction of ~5 btc with zero fee and it was confirmed in less than 30 min. Maybe I was lucky or maybe it was the 5 btc I dunno know. Now I put always  0.0001 bitcoin as fee and for me is very fine, it is less than 0,02 $ !

Zero-fee transactions are based on the weight of the transaction, which takes into consideration the input size, output size, and age. If you held 0.1 BTC for a day, you'd already have enough weight to negate the need for fees (if you were sending at least 0.01 BTC). 5 BTC was way overkill for the system.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
March 06, 2015, 01:24:49 PM
#61
Means if i want to get superfast confirmation , 100,000(very high priority ) will do the deal?

This would be no different than 0.0001 BTC at the current time. Technically if the blocks were full every single time, it would prioritize based on highest fees first (i.e., a 1 BTC fee would come before a 0.99 BTC fee and so on). But as it is, 0.0001 will get it into the next available block almost 100% of the time.

Okay so i don't need to make it more than 0.0001 BTC even if i want High priority.
That sounds good enough Smiley
Thank you

Correct. If you want to push yourself above everyone else just to ensure you're at the top of the list, you can do 0.0002 BTC. But really, that's not necessary unless blocks start filling up on a regular basis.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
March 06, 2015, 08:47:32 AM
#60
One day I've sent a big transaction of ~5 btc with zero fee and it was confirmed in less than 30 min. Maybe I was lucky or maybe it was the 5 btc I dunno know. Now I put always  0.0001 bitcoin as fee and for me is very fine, it is less than 0,02 $ !
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1007
Sooner or later, a man who wears two faces forgets
March 06, 2015, 08:41:53 AM
#59
If you mature some coins long enough and transaction size is below 1k, you can send it for free

Never knew this , so let us suppose if a address like this
https://blockchain.info/address/1CFBdvaiZgZPTZERqnezAtDQJuGHKoHSzg
ever gets active and decides to send the coin , he /she/they can send it without fees and still get it confirmed ?

The address you linked has 50btc in it and has been resting for years. It will qualify for a free transaction. It might not get confirmation within minutes, but I am sure it will eventually. It is up to the miners whether to accept transactions with no fees. Most do.

I'd say miners & pools have a vested interest as many of them consider encouraging people to pay fees by only including transactions with fees. If nobody was paying fees they might not earn enough to get by and this would result soon in them stopping the mining and weakening the whole bitcoin networking.

Yes! the miners will always encourage others for it!
But i don't understand why will it weaken the bitcoin network.
As i understand , if suppose half miners leave the mining , we still have other half right ?
They will find one block every 10 minutes , no matter how much hashing power we loose.
The difficulty is increasing but so are miners and thus making it hard for others.
If only 10-20 miners remain with some Ph/s with each miner , the transaction will still happen and bitcoin network will be stable , implied no one owns 51% or more of the hashing power.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
( -_・)ノ-=≡[$(∞)$]
March 06, 2015, 07:19:05 AM
#58
Sending btc without transaction fees are like sending a mail without a stamp Undecided
Transaction fees are important so that your transaction will be confirmed
Note:Sending btc without transaction fees might make your transaction uncomfirmable
theres always a risk in the easy way
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
March 06, 2015, 07:15:57 AM
#57
If you mature some coins long enough and transaction size is below 1k, you can send it for free

Never knew this , so let us suppose if a address like this
https://blockchain.info/address/1CFBdvaiZgZPTZERqnezAtDQJuGHKoHSzg
ever gets active and decides to send the coin , he /she/they can send it without fees and still get it confirmed ?

The address you linked has 50btc in it and has been resting for years. It will qualify for a free transaction. It might not get confirmation within minutes, but I am sure it will eventually. It is up to the miners whether to accept transactions with no fees. Most do.

I'd say miners & pools have a vested interest as many of them consider encouraging people to pay fees by only including transactions with fees. If nobody was paying fees they might not earn enough to get by and this would result soon in them stopping the mining and weakening the whole bitcoin networking.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
March 06, 2015, 06:58:49 AM
#56
it takes 4days to conform the transaction when i tryed it..really never try that
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1007
Sooner or later, a man who wears two faces forgets
March 06, 2015, 06:53:57 AM
#55
Means if i want to get superfast confirmation , 100,000(very high priority ) will do the deal?

This would be no different than 0.0001 BTC at the current time. Technically if the blocks were full every single time, it would prioritize based on highest fees first (i.e., a 1 BTC fee would come before a 0.99 BTC fee and so on). But as it is, 0.0001 will get it into the next available block almost 100% of the time.

Okay so i don't need to make it more than 0.0001 BTC even if i want High priority.
That sounds good enough Smiley
Thank you
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
March 06, 2015, 04:32:51 AM
#54
Means if i want to get superfast confirmation , 100,000(very high priority ) will do the deal?

This would be no different than 0.0001 BTC at the current time. Technically if the blocks were full every single time, it would prioritize based on highest fees first (i.e., a 1 BTC fee would come before a 0.99 BTC fee and so on). But as it is, 0.0001 will get it into the next available block almost 100% of the time.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1007
Sooner or later, a man who wears two faces forgets
March 06, 2015, 04:32:27 AM
#53




You likely need a pool operator to send you that screenshot as
most miners simply attach to pools and hash whatever their pool provides.
Most miners don't deal with such details.
Or perhaps someone who is just mining as a hobby might show you their criteria for what they prefer to include in their attempts.
Where am i supposed to find a pool miner of bitcoin ?

Would be awesome if someone could tell me or direct me to where i can see a screenshot of miner's screen
~Regards koelen3

Perhaps I should restate -
only pool operators and persons who are interested in the mechanisms of mining
will be dealing with the details of transaction prioritization based on fees and so on.
 
All others who mine do so blindly, only performing work allocated to them by their pools.
They do not exercise choice much beyond choosing a pool(s) to work with.
So you need to strike up a conversation with a pool operator or a solo mining enthusiast.

Thank you but i do understand but that's exactly why am asking , because it's hard to find a pool operator or a solo miner.
Anyways i will search in mining Section Smiley
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
March 06, 2015, 04:25:05 AM
#52




You likely need a pool operator to send you that screenshot as
most miners simply attach to pools and hash whatever their pool provides.
Most miners don't deal with such details.
Or perhaps someone who is just mining as a hobby might show you their criteria for what they prefer to include in their attempts.
Where am i supposed to find a pool miner of bitcoin ?

Would be awesome if someone could tell me or direct me to where i can see a screenshot of miner's screen
~Regards koelen3

Perhaps I should restate -
only pool operators and persons who are interested in the mechanisms of mining
will be dealing with the details of transaction prioritization based on fees and so on.
 
All others who mine do so blindly, only performing work allocated to them by their pools.
They do not exercise choice much beyond choosing a pool(s) to work with.
So you need to strike up a conversation with a pool operator or a solo mining enthusiast.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
March 06, 2015, 03:55:45 AM
#51
Honestly it is so much easier to just use a transaction fee of like less than a cent... Otherwise you run the risk of it not confirming for a long time.
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