Topic: [SERIOUS] What do people think of direct cash payments (US stimulus package)? - page 4. (Read 892 times)

And clowns MIGHT fly out of your ass. I guess we should put more taxes on circuses just to be sure.

Most employees have their income tax withheld by the employer. Losing a job may put them in a lower tax bracket and make them eligible for a tax refund, not make them owe taxes later.

I want my money

 

People are being taxed, that means they are losing income. People who just now lost their jobs will still owe taxes later on what they already earned. Individuals and businesses operating without income tax would be a HUGE economic incentive for EVERYONE to keep working and create more jobs. Do you not understand simple concepts of economics?





And experts are mostly in agreement the government intervention into the great depression is exactly what caused it to last much longer than it would have otherwise.

The way I read it, it's an attempt to avoid a repeat of something like the Great Depression.

That sort of thing really happens in the minds of the people, not in the basic economic facts. Can things go back to normal? Semi normal? How about normal without cruise ships?

The government is trying its best to encourage a positive attitude in the people. I have to agree and support that.

I think the reason it got so much support from republicans is because they think it could prevent the economy from collapsing from the bottom, which would take much longer to recover from.

In other words, the socialist bill could result in a much stronger economy a couple years from now, which means we have more 'room' for more capitalism sooner.

Of course, we don't know for sure the economy would collapse without the bill, or that it won't with it.  But - the fact it got so much support from Republicans really says something (I don't think they're all secret socialists - but if you do that would completely negate everything I just said)

Just the bad parts of Capitalism.

Do you have some examples of Capitalism that is being pushed due to this crisis?

And Capitalism!  At the same time!

I hope it works.

Yes! They are using this to push Socialism! It is awful!

Concerning the economy, remember that our money system is based on loans and repaying those loans, and most importantly the interest on those loans, using even more borrowed money. The system can never end unless the debt is legally abolished, since the only way to have enough dollars to pay the interest on the debt is to borrow more money which is created out of nothing.

So what happens is when people get scared they stop taking out new loans. Business loans stop, home loans slow down, car loans slow down, student loans stop, etc. So this creates a deflationary condition as money is sucked out of circulation to pay the interest on existing loans, and big economic trouble follows. Eventually either every dollar in circulation will disappear or people will default on the loans. If newly created money in the form of a stimulus checks being sent to everyone is done, this injects new money in to the economy and stops the run away deflation situation.

The people who didn't lose any income would receive the most assistance.
The people who lost their jobs would receive none.

Do you understand the motivation for the stimulus package?

Dumb. Suspend income taxes indefinitely. Don't take money from people and hand it back to them. This is not only of limited benefit, it also creates a dangerous dependence on government. The government should be dependent on the people, no the people dependent on the government. People dependent on the government = slaves, not free men.

In my opinion this is just a bailout from a collapsing economy from my perspective they're handing out free money in order to make the economy go round. And even though some people may see this as a good deed, but in my perspective the fed/banks are just printing out trillions of money out of nothing injecting into the monetary system lowering the purchasing power of USD.

Is my stimulus money in the mail yet?     

I think that is actually how it is going to work. I'm going to provide a bit of an example to make it easier, look below for that.

Imagine you're married and you and your wife made 185,000 on your most recent tax return. Great, that means that you're entitled to some money due to the stimulus package -- not the full payment of $1200 a person, because your income is too high, but you'd get something. Problem is in 2020 your tax return says that you've made 200,000 as a couple. The phase out was 192,000 (somewhere in this realm) and now you're going to have to return the money you got back to the government.

I think this is how it works, as this was supposed to help people who didn't make money in 2020 -- people that lost their jobs and such due to the virus. Not people that lost their jobs in 2018,2019.

There are other programs out their though, unemployment across the nation has an additional $600 a  week for people (up to July 31'st), which is very substantial to people who weren't making much before this and were only thinking they would get like $300-400 a week from unemployment.

Lots of stuff out their for small businesses to try to keep as many employees on as they can -- tax credits, loans for payrolls, 10k grant for those with damages, etc.

Ah yeah, that makes sense.  I thought you meant it would be deducted from 2020 tax credits.

I heard that when they calculate it they will use your 2018 return if you haven't filed yet, and you get to keep it even if your eventual 2019 return would lower your payment or disqualify you.

Conversely, I think if you didn't qualify in 18 or 19 (made over $100k), but you do in 2020 (made under $100k), you would also be able to claim it when you file in 2021.

I guess they really want people to not worry about having to give it back.

The New York Times
I have not read the text of the law, however, my reading of this FAQ is that payments will be sent based on the most recent return you have filed, and the actual amount will be based on your 2020 income.

I don't think so.  I think it's pretty much no strings attached cash, but I'm not sure.  Where did you read that?

The direct cash payments are actually advances on tax credits for the 2020 tax year.

I believe the intention of the cash payments is to prevent people from hoarding money unnecessarily out of fear of a poor financial future. If too many people stop buying things, inventories will start to build up, and suppliers will need to lay off workers because of the lack of demand, and these employers may not be hired back after the economy opens back up.

There are very few people working away from home currently. Many companies that are requiring employees to come into the office have announced enhanced child care benefits that are paying for 'emergency' child care.

The bill also provides unemployment benefits that are probably dangerous, and harmful to the long term economy. In general, state unemployment will pay 50% of your earnings up to a maximum benefit of $300-$400 or so. The stimulus bill will pay $600/week above what workers will receive under normal unemployment circumstances. Someone working full time earning federal minimum wage would receive benefits equal to wages working out to $18.725/hour, and someone earning $15/hour full time would receive benefits equal to wages working out to $22.5/hour. This creates a disincentive to look for work, and there are over a million newly opened temporary jobs resulting from the additional demands caused by the coronavirus. I would expect Amazon, CVS, and grocery stores to have difficulty filling these jobs.

The stimulus package has been described by many as a "wartime bill" and in many ways it is. Based on projects on how much the US economy will shrink, the federal deficit may reach 15-20% of the GDP in 2020. By comparison, the deficit reached 27% in 1943 in WW2, and was above 20% throughout WW2. What people are willing to accept in wartime is different than what people are willing to accept in normal circumstances.

It's a ridiculous way to handle this crisis. I can't see it as anything other than an attempt to bribe voters and I'm surprised that Democrats went along with it, since it helps mostly Trump (he wanted his signature on the checks LOL). The proper way to do it would be to boost unemployment benefits and possibly some other existing support programs for people who need help. The stimulus bill does some of that, e.g. expanding unemployment benefits to help "gig" workers, but still - giving cash to people, particularly ones who still have jobs is insane.

Also keep in mind that some states will be hit particularly hard and unlike the federal government states can't print money.

The only thing i can think from this is inflation. It may appear to be helpful at first, but it will kick back everyone later.

"No such thing as a free lunch". All this "money giving" comes from where again? Certainly not from a productive economy. Print to save? Not gonna happen, print always leads to inflation, and inflation leads to everyone getting poorer. This is like a loan with too much interest at best.

This power of politicians to "print" money when they feel like it is what led to all hyperinflation cases in history.