Topic: SGMiner on XBOX One - page 2. (Read 2651 times)

Azure isn't 100% centralized to a specific location, they have server farms all over the world and are expanding that too. I currently use Azure to do some CPU mining actually lol. But yeah I'll reach out to some people and see if anyone else is interested in creating a mining app for the Xbox. As for Microsoft, I still doubt they would do that idea. The whole dev mode program really is meant for games and they rarely approve non entertainment apps for the Xbox One store either.

Now that I think about it, is Azure a good idea (centralization of hashing power/51% double spending attacks)? The whole point is decentralization...

And yeah, I agree that JavaScript mining is not worth it. The best idea would be a dedicated app with 2 CPU threads (4MB L2) and 100% GPGPU utilization.

What if MS cancels your warranty rights as soon as you start mining/accept the terms and conditions? That way they wouldn't have to worry about replacements and you would mine at your own risk.

Microsoft Azure already has tons of those server GPU's. They have several different options for spinning up VM's on Azure with NVidia Tesla GPU's, including the latest versions. Anyways, I'm like very interested in mining on my Xbox One X now but I want to go beyond web-based javascript mining since 11-13 h/s is absolutely not worth it. I need the full power of the CPU and GPU for it to be worth it. But just gotta wait till someone can write the mining software for Xbox One using UWP or a game engine.

Yeah, perhaps, but utilizing already existing consoles is probably cheaper than buying tons of server GPUs for PoW... not to mention electricity.

I think that's more for Azure though since they already have their own blockchain service for Azure. Doesn't look like it's meant for mining altcoins anyways, but rather some kind of identity service. Probably not Xbox Live gamertags either. I'd imagine Microsoft would want to keep all Xbox Live services very much centralized.

Microsoft is preparing something:

https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/enterprisemobility/2018/02/12/decentralized-digital-identities-and-blockchain-the-future-as-we-see-it/

We'll have to see if it utilizes PoW (mining) or something else...

Well sounds like the Xbox One X is the perfect mining rig right now then considering the price. The only barrier is the software then. I still don't see Microsoft personally getting into developing mining software for the Xbox One. I think we're on our own for that. Miners aren't the intended market for Microsoft's Xbox One and I don't see Microsoft really taking much of an interest in mining. That being said, all the tools are there for us to be able to write our own mining software for the Xbox One. There's already open source miners out there too like CCMiner-Cryptonight which is written in C++ I believe. But while UWP does support C++, it's not a simple copy and paste into UWP. It's a good start though, someone with the experience just needs to port CCMiner to UWP.

We're talking about DX12 Compute Shaders, so it's not that different from modern video games and certainly not as bad as FurMark (you can burn your GPU with that within a few minutes).

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-microsoft-xbox-one-x-review_1
https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/7gq5sw/xbox_one_x_temperature_question/

Doesn't seem that bad compared to a discrete GPU and it's a lot lower than Ryzen APUs (dat thermal paste)... modern chips can reach up to 80C with no problems.

AFAIK, it's the fan that will fail first, depending on its quality. Also, keep in mind that CryptoNight doesn't overheat the GPU that much compared to other algos.

Whoever strikes a deal with MS is going to enjoy 1-2% mining fees easily. There are 30-35 million XB1 consoles out there...

Yep, while current gen consoles are indeed very similar to PC's, they're still not quite the same. There's a long and difficult design process when building a console because there's a lot of things to take into consideration. Otherwise, it'd just be easier for Microsoft and Sony to take off the shelf laptop parts, slap them together in a case and call it a day. And yeah, game consoles are heavily subsidized by their manufacturers so that's why they're usually a lot cheaper compared to their PC equivalents. On top of that, Microsoft and Sony don't pay retail prices for the components. They have bulk order agreements at wholesale prices which is also what keeps console prices stable.

I also agree that there's no reason the Xbox One X can't perform as well as its PC equivalent. That being said, it's true that mining performance is a lot different than gaming performance. Game consoles are indeed optimized for gaming first and foremost. However from what I understand, that's not going to have a huge negative affect on mining performance anyways. The big question here is how well can an Xbox One X reasonably sustain 100% GPU and CPU performance. When I'm playing demanding games that run in 4K 60fps like Halo 5 or Forza 7, the Xbox One X does get very warm. To keep it like that constantly will no doubt reduce the lifespan of the console, but that's true for any device you use for mining. Someone else above did reference the Xbox 360's red rings of death and PS3's yellow light of death which is a concern and pushing that generation of consoles. But as far as this current generation goes, I've never heard or seen an Xbox One or PS4 have another red rings of death or yellow light of death issue yet. So I think this time around, Microsoft and Sony did a pretty good with the cooling system.

Unfortunately I doubt Microsoft and Sony are going to do anything to make their consoles more friendly for miners. But the fact remains that there's a very real possibility to take full advantage of the Xbox One X for mining. I would love to be able to write the mining software for it too but like I said I'd need help from people who are more experienced. Or another option could be to start a bounty for someone to write the software.

Finally an interesting post! And I thought this forum was infested with trolls, but I'm glad you proved me wrong. Don't feel intimidated, just ignore malicious posters. Most of them are not even devs to begin with, so their opinion holds zero weight.

Yeah, XB1X is a bargain compared to the likes of RX 580, Vega 56, GTX 1070 (due to inflated prices), not to mention it's a fully integrated system (not just a GPU) with a max power consumption of 175W for the entire system. Console prices tend to remain stable, even if component prices increase: https://www.anandtech.com/show/11724/samsung-sk-hynix-graphics-memory-prices-increase-over-30-percent (guess what, MS ate up that cost)

There's no reason it cannot perform as good as an RX 580, with the benefit of having a unified memory pool of 5-9GB (S vs X). Even the latest Ryzen/Vega APUs (2200G/2400G) have a fixed allocation limit of 2GB for the Vega iGPU, which probably means regular PC Windows don't support hUMA. Not to mention having signifantly weaker GPUs and a lot less memory bandwidth. Ryzen is their only saving grace compared to Jaguar, but with only 4MB of L3 cache, don't expect more than 2 threads of CryptoNight mining, so it's a moot point really.

That's why I've been saying that we shouldn't compare PC technology with console semi-custom technology in a narrow-minded manner. That's like comparing homo sapiens to chimps, just because we share 98% of the same DNA. Yes, consoles use PC-based technology, just like we're evolved apes (in a sense), but that doesn't mean that crucial differences don't exist. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to understand this. We gotta see the big picture and I'm pretty sure MS is working on it as we speak.

To my knowledge, it's unlimited, I've had 3 on dev mode before. But if there really is a limit, then the solution is simply to use a 2nd Microsoft account on the Xbox's after you hit the limit. But as far as I know, there is no limit. I took a quick look at the dev mode documentation from Microsoft and it makes no mention of a limit either.

How many xbox one's can a dev have in "dev mode"? This is probably going to be the only way in which youll realistically be able to mine with them.

I'm glad someone brought up this topic, I've tried discussing this in other places but got quickly shutdown. Anyways, I hope I can add some new info here but there are basically 3 possibilities to mining cryptonight currencies on an Xbox One, the first of which I already tried to minimal benefit:

1. Use a browser based javascript miner like Coinhive (set up your own site) and mine with the Xbox One's edge browser. I've tried this on my own Xbox One and Xbox One X, the hashrate is pretty bad. It's CPU only and you'll get like close to 12 H/s on the Xbox One X CPU. What's VERY interesting though is that the original Xbox One CPU actually gets around 13 H/s. It's consistently a full 1 H/s better than the Xbox One X CPU which makes me curious why since the Xbox One X not only has a higher clockspeed, but is supposed to have made many other improvements over the original CPU. This is currently the only method that anyone can do at the moment.

2. Someone will need to write a UWP version of a cryptonight miner. Microsoft recently allowed UWP apps and games to have access to a lot more system resources than in the past. I am a C# UWP dev, but I don't have the skills or experience to be able to port or write my own cryptonight miner without help. I'm totally willing to do that if someone with the knowledge and experience wants to help. Unfortunately, chances are Microsoft wouldn't approve a mining app on the app store for distribution on the Xbox One. That being said, any Xbox One can be dev mode unlocked by anyone so that's all that will need to be done and any UWP app can be compiled and sideloaded easily by anyone.

3. Similar to option 2, but someone will need to write a miner using a game engine like Unity or Unreal. Using a game engine should give you full DX12 access to the CPU and GPU, allowing for better theoretical performance over UWP. For an engine like Unity, the mining code could probably be written using compute shaders. I've also developed in Unity before, but again I don't have the level of experience to be able to write a miner without help. And of course the same restriction applies here where you'll probably end up having to sideload the app yourself since it likely wouldn't get through Microsoft's approval process and even if it did, probably wouldn't go unnoticed for very long.

Considering how expensive graphics cards are now these days, game consoles, especially the Xbox One X, make a lot of sense for mining and are great value. Plus, the prices of game consoles are a lot more stable than PC graphics cards for numerous reasons. I'm willing to try to write a UWP or Unity miner for the Xbox One if someone with the knowledge and experience is willing to help me. Otherwise, we could try to start a bounty or something for someone to write one for us.

IF you are going to argue, at least quote properly, he specifically said xbox one S which runs the same hardware as the original xbox one albeit slightly overclocked and on a small die process.

Xbox one S is much, MUCH less powerful than the xbox one X. Xbox one GPU is only a 768 shader GCN 1.0 part, so inbetwen radeon 7770 and 7790.

People seem to be getting them confused in this thread and that reddit link, the guy in the reddit said he was not mining on the Xbox one X as it did not make financial sense.

Of course I will leave. I am not able to give anything to You by force. Have a nice mining. BTW wake me up when You reach 800 H/s with MS drivers and wihout manual downvolting and overclocking.

Another ignorant comment...

RX 580 (the same GPU the X has) can mine 800 H/s in Monero/CryptoNight. Vega 56 is around 2000 H/s on CryptoNight. 10-20? Not really. Educate yourself.

Source: http://monerobenchmarks.info/

Btw, MS seems willing to adopt the blockchain technology:

https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/enterprisemobility/2018/02/12/decentralized-digital-identities-and-blockchain-the-future-as-we-see-it/

If you're not willing the discuss the subject in hand, then please leave.

You went into discussion - verbal fight - with rare person here (if not the only one) that is actually "mining" on APUs, claiming how good will be to mine on certain's hardware APU.
You could (l)earn much more if You asked him politely how to maximize profit from APU instead of linking "APU knowledge" and "farms" mining cryptonight. Do You know number of needed XBOX Ss to be in par with single Radeon Vega 56? I will tell You - it's between 10 and 20. Oh, almost forgot - the power needed is in similar ratio.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7vze1k/spoke_with_a_cryptocurrency_specialist_todayhe/

I doubt you are older than I am.
Hint - I'm pretty close to Philma1957's age (1957 is his birthyear).
I was also a FidoNet sysop for about a decade, and a stand-alone BBS sysop for years before that.
Ever work on a Bendix G15? I have - though it was rather outdated by the time I got to work on it.

If you can put LINUX on a PS4 (available since at least 2016 as WIDELY REPORTED and go look at that link I posted for ONE SOURCE), then it is hackable and in fact HAS been hacked.

Hovis method HAS in fact been used in mass-produced products - just not with as high of a volume as the APU in the XBox One X.
Marketing shills CAN AND DO LIE to make their product seem "more special", and this is such a case.


There is no "third option" at this time AFAIK using the XBox One or XBox One X, as there is no mining app written for it nor can you run a different OS that DOES support mining software.
There IS a "third option" with the PS4, but the iGPU in the APU version in those is a lot lower performance even in THEORY vs the one in the XBox One X.

Unless I am mistaken but this whole thread is about discussing the theoretical side on XB mining and no one is actually mining on them as we speak? I'm pretty sure the general consensus either way is that it wouldn't mine much to be more profitable than a decent AMD card anyway?