Topic: SGMiner on XBOX One - page 3. (Read 2651 times)

I was teetering between building a cheap rig with cards (perhaps rx 580 or better) or CPU mining. Now both of you gentlemen have given me a third option and one which I never would have found without coming to bitcointalk. I would like to know more about console mining with the Xbox 1 x. Please share your experience and results of any tests.

This isn't Usenet, nor BBS (I'm older than you), it's a modern forum that supports bbcode/bold. Learn to use it.

Hovis method has never been used before in a mass-produced product. Stop lying. Thank you for proving your ignorance, though.

PS4 has not been hacked yet, otherwise piracy would be rampant already.

Console APUs support hUMA (you didn't even bother to google it), so there are no memory addressing restrictions.

Now move along, because this subject (console mining) isn't for you. You're not even a console owner to begin with, otherwise you wouldn't be so ignorant in the first place. Do your homework and then we can talk.

Obviously you aren't bothering to READ what I am posting.

I didn't SAY "this GPU can only address 1 GB". I said the A10 had that limitation, and that it *MIGHT* apply to the APU in the XBox One X.

One typo on DDR3 vs GDDR3 doesn't mean I don't know the difference or make me ignorant.
Are you going to try to tell me you have NEVER misstyped something?

I use capitols for emphasis - this is a VERY long standing online convention dating back at least to UseNet and PREdates the Internet as such, if you don't understand it that makes YOU the ignorant one.

GPU internal voltage tuning and control does NOT equal "undervolting", where the USER dictates to the GPU to use less voltage than it is designed to use.
Ditto "Hovis method" to make the GPU more efficient, which has actually been used on other GPUs before as well as CPUs.
Again, YOU showing ignorance not me.

I've BEEN civil - you are the one that started name-calling and being insulting for no reason.

PS4 has had LINUX on it and "been hacked" since at least 2016.
https://github.com/fail0verflow/ps4-linux
There were quite a few other postings at that time about the subject.
Do you even bother checking facts before you post anything?
Seems odd you calling ME ignorant so many times when YOUR ignorance is so repeatedly blatant.

I have NEVER SAID ANYTHING about "not worth mining on", my entire point has been "don't ASSUME RX 580 level performance" not "don't bother mining on them at all".


If you can't be bothered to READ AND UNDERSTAND what other folks type before commenting on it or understanding basic common Internet conventions, YOU are the one that should stop posting.

CAN YOU STOP USING CAPS?

Thank you...

I suggest to educate yourself on the subject we're discussing.

Video games have caused immense hardware failures in the past (PS3 YLOD, XBOX 360 RROD). Yes, video games, not Folding@Home. Revelatory, eh?

Do you know what "Hovis method" entails? You sound really ignorant my friend when you keep yelling that XB1X doesn't feature undervolting.

NEWSFLASH: XB1X has an undervolted RX 580 with the maximum efficiency factor in the market. That's why it consumes 175W at max load for the entire system. NOT every GPU/APU is shipped with undervolting BY DEFAULT. Stop misinforming others!

Got it now?

Last but not least, I mentioned TF, because that's the only metric we have. I know what hashing is. Since it's a Polaris-based part, integer performance should be roughly the same as the TF metric. Vega on the other hand is a bit more efficient, due to having additional improvements.

You're so ignorant that you don't even know what HSA/hUMA are and you keep spouting nonsense that the GPU can only address 1GB of RAM. Again: educate yourself and you'll thank me later.

Hell, you don't even know the difference between GDDR3 and DDR3 and you're trying to lecture me?! That's cute...

Please, if you're not able to discuss in a civil & adult manner (I've done my best in previous posts and you clearly didn't appreciate it, so no more from me), I suggest to leave this thread... there are people who are genuinely interested in console mining (if this ever becomes possible with hacking/CFW).

I presented him facts by MS engineers themselves, but he doesn't want to listen... he doesn't want to acknowledge what Hovis method is. Stubborn as fuck. It's OK, I know it's the internet (armchair engineers) and all that. :-)

These consoles came out in 2013 and they haven't been hacked yet (4+ years). Maybe because the encryption is too strong (same reason cryptocoins are so secure).

What makes you think they're not worth mining? Vega costs $1000 these days (if you're lucky enough to find one!) and delivers 12TF (again: I know this is not related to mining performance).

XB1X costs $500, delivers 6TF and it's readily available everywhere. If one person had figured it out, there would be no XB1X consoles in the market.

I agree with leo and tbh if they were worth it to mine with don't you think someone would have figured it out by now? pretty sure SOMEONE has and just hasn't come forward for whatever reasons

Buddy, more resources went into the Xbox APU than you know. Its tuned much more precisely than the standard desktop cards. Its NOT THE SAME and should have no problem handling an algo like Ethash. Perhaps not dual mining but the console was made to handle the GPU at full 100% load.

You're not on the dev team that developed the xbox APU, so you cant sit there and say it will or wont work..... I swear its like you are only here for the sake of arguing.

Gaming doesn't present a CONSISTANT high-level load to a GPU.
Comparing based on GAMING stats means nothing.
It has been shown a LOT of times that mining puts a LOT more stress and that most algorithms soak a LOT more power than any gaming does.

Why do you keep talking about MEANINGLESS Teraflops figure, that has absolutely ZERO to do with mining performance.

 And, your links do NOT say anything about undervolting being available, the standard RX series cards have the SAME "voltage control" optimization logic that your links are talking about - that logic goes back to AT LEAST the R9 3xx series, and has been shown to NOT optimize well in a mining environment.
The only difference is how they TUNED the logic for the APU involved - which is also the case in every other APU and recent GPU that AMD has built, they ALL have different "tuning" to that logic depending on the model.

 Do try READING the links you post before you point to them as demonstrating information that IS NOT THERE.

 Have you ever actually USED an AMD APU before?

I guess you didn't read the links, since you mentioned "lack of undervolting" (which is not true):

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-microsoft-xbox-one-x-review_1

XB1X has a specially tuned RX 580 variant, which is more efficient (read what Hovis method is) than the discrete one -> less power consumption.

Do some research first at least... this console is meant to deliver max performance at all times to render at 4K resolutions, not fluctuating at all (6TF is guaranteed).

The limit is that the iGPU won't have enough power available to run at full speed consistantly - keep in mind that the actual RX 580 can soak 175 watts or more ITSELF when mining ETH, the iGPU is NOT going to have that full power available - there are other things in the box to run, and there is a lot of question as to IF you can undervolt an iGPU in a console at all to allow it to run at lower power draw.

 Vapor chamber cooling does not address the power limits - that addresses COOLING issues, and given the usage of vapor chamber cooling on the GTX 1080 ti FE cards AND HOW POORLY IT PERFORMS COMPARED TO ANY 3'D PARTY SOLUTION FOR COOLING I wouldn't be bragging on the stuff.

 Quoting TeraFlop figures is MEANINGLESS. Mining is 100% Integer operations, FP operations don't mine.
 

 Console APUs are based QUITE CLOSELY on the same-generation "general purpose" APUs. It's going to be interesting to see how the "Bristol Ridge" series compares to the APU in the Xbox One X.
 "SEMI-custom"  after all.

With the latest SDK version (Win10 Fall Creators update) devs can make UWP apps that have access to 9GB RAM (5GB for OG models), 6 exclusives Jaguar cores (probably not worth much compared to GPGPU) and full access to the iGPU via DX12/Compute Shaders.

Are there any UWP devs on this forum to give us more insight?

There's huge untapped potential here...

If that's an issue, they can offer you an option to cancel the warranty and start mining at your own risk (Sony didn't do this for the PS3/Folding@Home, even though OG PS3 was a ticking bomb due to YLOD).

If MS allowed it, it would give them a serious advantage over the competition. They need to find a way to make XBOX an enticing platform (considering the lack of exclusive games).

Imagine if MS issued their own coin and allowed you to buy stuff from the store with it? Just an idea. It would be revolutionary in the console space.

Old OG Xbones use dated 28nm lithography and GCN 1.0 GPUs with only 1.31TF of compute power (125 watts).

XBOX ONE X is a much better value proposition (175 watts, 16nm FinFET lithography, 6 Teraflops).

It would also be a nice alternative, considering the fact that you cannot find cards like RX 580, Vega 56, 1070 Ti in the market anymore, while there is an abundance of XB1X consoles for less than 500$/€. Doesn't sound like a bad deal, since Vega GPUs can cost up to €1000 these days.

There are no thermal limits, it's meant to deliver 6TF of power with no issues thanks to vapor chamber cooling:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-microsoft-xbox-one-x-review_1

Don't compare it to PC APUs, console APUs are semi-custom and they support technologies like HSA/hUMA (unified address space for the CPU/GPU).

Games/apps have access to 5GB DDR3 + 32MB eSRAM (OG) or 9GB of GDDR5 RAM (Scorpio).

I think you meant DDR3. GDDR3 is the predecessor of GDDR5 (graphics-oriented memory).

 I have seen LINUX for the PS/4 mentioned on a few websites as a "done deal".
 Not sure on the XBox One though.

The iGPU in the XBox is going to perform closer to a RX 560 than a RX 580.
It is going to have serious thermal limits that won't let it clock as high as a discrete GPU with the same number of cores when under heavy load, so even though it has a similar core count to the 580 it's NOT going to be close on performance.
They may also be limited on how much memory they can access - the A10 series has a 1 GB limit on it's iGPU to date, even though some BIOS claim they can work with 2 they just CRASH if you try.

 For perspective - my A10-7860k and A10-7890k both have 512 cores running at about 800 Mhz - which is the SAME specs at the old HD 7750 - but for almost EVERY algorithm I've tried on both the HD 7750 blows those iGPUs out of the water on hashrate.
 Part of that is that the A10s are using GDDR3, but it's not enough to account for ALL of the difference.

 The ONLY thing I've run on those iGPUs that's close in performance to the HD 7750 is the Dnet client - but that client uses almost NO ram, so it's pretty much 100% core count/clock limited.


 In fairness, you SHOULD be able to mine on the things if you can get the software installed - just don't expect ANYWHERE NEAR RX 570 level hashrates, and I have some doubt they'll even match the RX 560 on a sustained basis.


 Also keep in mind when talking ETH that ETH is very much memory limited, more cores does NOT always help much if at all on hashrate.
 GTX 1070 has 1920 cores yet OUTMINES any Polaris based card AND the GTX 1080 on ETH despite the RX 470/480/570/580 and GTX 1080 all having more than 2000 cores.

Damn i was expecting more, so if he was capable for mining that will be about 25-30 mh/s right?

How are you expecting more? Its really quite powerful considering the price of the xbox one X. 2560 core RX GPU is pretty powerful, better than any Desktop RX card.

It will do slightly more than a stock RX 580 fresh out of the box will do, perhaps a slight bit more as it does have 2560 cores vs 2304 of the RX 580.

I dunno, Id guess 25. Hard to say.

Check the reviews on the electronium miner, it was posted in the elec reddit when it was working. It did work at one point on xbox.

Seems like a cool project for someone with a lot of time on their hands that didn't care about profiting from it.  That leaves me extremely uninterested.  Last I checked, there wasn't even a way to play pirated games on a Xbox One.  That's why I haven't bought one yet ... Lol.  That's about the only thing hackable on a xbox 360, the original Xbox from 2001 was the one that really allowed you to do some cool 3rd party software shit with.

Isn't that just the Microsoft Store? It would be interesting to see, but there are plenty of apps on in the MS store that aren't run on an Xbox. Having seen how the older Xbox models perform with the newer gen of games, I find it hard to believe they would be worth mining with. As it is, I don't think you can really find them for under $100 even now, and thats without any mining component.

An Xbox One X has an RX series GPU thats slightly better than an RX 580. Basically, whatever an RX 580 can do, of course your not going to be able to flash VBIOS or do anything besides run it at whatever its stock speed is.

So basically, whatever a stock RX 580 with no OC is capable of.

This is interesting. In theory how much hardware of xbox/ps4 is capable of mining compared it with curent gen gpus.

There are actual miners on the xbox store if anyone didnt know. Or there WERE, seems they took them down for xbox to fix them.

Electronium:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/a-calc-etn-miner/9mst8s4l0pbq

Monero:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/a-calc-xmr-monero-miner/9nj99pmdx6sc

The whole issue would be getting access to the GPU or even publishing an app that makes full use of the GPU, xbox one x is really, really, locked down. I highly doubt they want people mining, afterall, microsoft will have to deal with any issues if the consols break under warranty.

I cant imagine either Sony or MS would condone a real useful crypto mining app, though it would be genuinely useful on the Xbox One X as it actually has a higher end GPU. Then again they had folding@home running on the PS3 so its possible they might allow something like this eventually.

I can only imagine what would happen if half of the xbox one and xbox one X's in the country started mining with a nice hash type app. Suddenly you cant find any old original xboxs for under $100 anymore lol People would suddenly have warehouses full of OG xbox ones.