Shit Hits the Fan: Australia joins US, India and Japan in Naval Exercise

avikz

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 22, 2020, 01:21:07 AM

The Malabar exercise incited WW3 fear as Australia joins the naval exercise which is a clear indicator that India is fighting back the aggression by China because in the past they never asked for Australia as a respect. This is wild for politics and I believe that if China continues their aggressive campaign to increase territory and influence then their relations with neighbors will turn more sour than ever. The politic side is pretty obvious and what I want to hear is your thoughts on this news economically.

For me, China has to answer to the sanctions that was issued to them and pay what is due. They also need to fix their relation with their neighbors especially South China Sea/West Philippine Sea. Export and import crossing South China Sea, Indian Ocean will surely suffer because tensions are high on this hotspots.

Link of the article: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1350257/WW3-news-China-US-America-India-Japan-Australia-military-drills-navy-south-china-sea-ont/amp

China is a bigger threat to the world than terrorism! Many neighbor countries of China has already faced this heat like Pakistan, kazakhstan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet and so on. The list will only grow longer! Now "His highness" from China has removed the legal barrier to remain in power till the time he wants to! The world needs to re-think about their policies towards China and probably they would need to ban Chinese population from visiting their own countries. Regardless of the military prowess China posses, the world will have come forward to eliminate this threat!

What we are seeing is only the teaser of a whole film - Picture abhi baki hain mere dost!

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: teosanru on October 27, 2020, 08:56:08 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 26, 2020, 11:51:45 PM

The human population is almost 8 billion and climbing at around 25 million per year. We are running out of natural resources and under these circumstances no region is a liability, irrespective of whether it is desert or mountain plateau. Two decades ago, Ethiopia and Eritrea had a war over a small desert strip, which killed more than 100,000 people.

But then, the case with China is different. They have territorial disputes with all their neighbors. Some of their neighbors (such as Pakistan and Kazakhstan) have given in to their demands. Others, such as Japan and India have refused to be bullied.

I think China just needs a setback from the world to make it understand that despite of it being an economic power the rest of the world is not too easy to handle. I think the first part from every country should begin by giving Taiwan a status of country and beginning diplomatic relations with Taiwan. The day a few big countries do it rest of the countries would follow. There cannot be a bigger setback to China than this it will have to surrender at some point.

Agreed on Taiwan. Other nations need a rethink on the "One China" policy. But then, Taiwan should also change its official name from "Republic of China" to "Republic of Taiwan", and give up their claim to Chinese mainland. "One country, two systems" logic doesn't work that well, as we have seen in the case of Hong Kong. Taiwan needs to remain independent and for that it needs the support from other nations.

BuNga_cute

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Now more and more countries are being invited by America for military cooperation, Even the Indonesian defense minister, my country,
was invited by the US to discuss military cooperation between the two countries. Although the Indonesian government has told local media
that it does not want to be involved in a military alliance with foreigners. But the meeting of the two defense ministers invited question
marks from all parties, and news that the Chinese government certainly did not like. But I agree if my country is closer to America, because
I have always disliked communist countries.

Lorence.xD

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on October 27, 2020, 06:18:20 AM

The British government has offered a pathway to UK citizenship to around 3 million residents of Hong Kong, who have British National (Overseas) status. I am not sure how many of the residents are going to apply, but this is a big blow for China. If UK goes ahead with its plan, then it will trigger a massive brain drain and eventually it will destroy the HK economy.

Hongkong is a special economic zone, I do not think it will affect their economy, the selling point of Hongkong is its real estate and people from around the world are flocking there to buy one and I do not think that the brain drain will destroy the economy because besides having expensive real estate to fund the economy, it is also a tourist destination.

Quote from: teosanru on October 27, 2020, 08:56:08 AM

Obviously which democratic country would want itself to be ruled by a communist again? No matter how ruined your country is people of this century still prefer democracy.

I wouldn't want to live in a communist country too, with stories from yesteryear about the hardships of the people living in communist states and atrocities committed by the people in those countries, it will be a definite pass for me. Democratic is the closest thing we have to a utopic government, if only the masses are actively participating in the community and they care about the social injustices happening then democracy will work as intended. But we can't have that because of human's primal instinct to compete with one another.

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 26, 2020, 11:51:45 PM

Quote from: teosanru on October 26, 2020, 10:45:30 PM

Well coming to territorial expansion of China. One thing I can tell you it's not about resources only. It's maybe more about pride or something. They fought harsh for Tibet which is more of a liability than a resource. It's a large piece of barren land with not much to offer. Similarly now they are fighting for some land in Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh with India this land too is more or less barren and apart from having some strategic advantage is useless. HongKong and Taiwan maybe said as expansion for resources.

The human population is almost 8 billion and climbing at around 25 million per year. We are running out of natural resources and under these circumstances no region is a liability, irrespective of whether it is desert or mountain plateau. Two decades ago, Ethiopia and Eritrea had a war over a small desert strip, which killed more than 100,000 people.

But then, the case with China is different. They have territorial disputes with all their neighbors. Some of their neighbors (such as Pakistan and Kazakhstan) have given in to their demands. Others, such as Japan and India have refused to be bullied.

I think China just needs a setback from the world to make it understand that despite of it being an economic power the rest of the world is not too easy to handle. I think the first part from every country should begin by giving Taiwan a status of country and beginning diplomatic relations with Taiwan. The day a few big countries do it rest of the countries would follow. There cannot be a bigger setback to China than this it will have to surrender at some point.

Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 27, 2020, 12:08:49 AM

Quote from: teosanru on October 26, 2020, 10:45:30 PM

Well coming to territorial expansion of China. One thing I can tell you it's not about resources only. It's maybe more about pride or something. They fought harsh for Tibet which is more of a liability than a resource. It's a large piece of barren land with not much to offer. Similarly now they are fighting for some land in Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh with India this land too is more or less barren and apart from having some strategic advantage is useless. HongKong and Taiwan maybe said as expansion for resources.

I can agree at a certain point, I think this is more of an intimidation tactic rather than glory for their country. Hongkong's case is that they are invalidating the agreement they had between United Kingdom that makes Hongkong free state until 2047, they do not see it as a resource expansion, this is more on One China Policy like the case with Taiwan with Taiwan not wanting to associate with Mainland China and wanting to be recognized as a country.

Obviously which democratic country would want itself to be ruled by a communist again? No matter how ruined your country is people of this century still prefer democracy.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 27, 2020, 12:08:49 AM

I can agree at a certain point, I think this is more of an intimidation tactic rather than glory for their country. Hongkong's case is that they are invalidating the agreement they had between United Kingdom that makes Hongkong free state until 2047, they do not see it as a resource expansion, this is more on One China Policy like the case with Taiwan with Taiwan not wanting to associate with Mainland China and wanting to be recognized as a country.

The British government has offered a pathway to UK citizenship to around 3 million residents of Hong Kong, who have British National (Overseas) status. I am not sure how many of the residents are going to apply, but this is a big blow for China. If UK goes ahead with its plan, then it will trigger a massive brain drain and eventually it will destroy the HK economy.

Lorence.xD

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Quote from: teosanru on October 26, 2020, 10:45:30 PM

Well coming to territorial expansion of China. One thing I can tell you it's not about resources only. It's maybe more about pride or something. They fought harsh for Tibet which is more of a liability than a resource. It's a large piece of barren land with not much to offer. Similarly now they are fighting for some land in Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh with India this land too is more or less barren and apart from having some strategic advantage is useless. HongKong and Taiwan maybe said as expansion for resources.

I can agree at a certain point, I think this is more of an intimidation tactic rather than glory for their country. Hongkong's case is that they are invalidating the agreement they had between United Kingdom that makes Hongkong free state until 2047, they do not see it as a resource expansion, this is more on One China Policy like the case with Taiwan with Taiwan not wanting to associate with Mainland China and wanting to be recognized as a country.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: teosanru on October 26, 2020, 10:45:30 PM

Well coming to territorial expansion of China. One thing I can tell you it's not about resources only. It's maybe more about pride or something. They fought harsh for Tibet which is more of a liability than a resource. It's a large piece of barren land with not much to offer. Similarly now they are fighting for some land in Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh with India this land too is more or less barren and apart from having some strategic advantage is useless. HongKong and Taiwan maybe said as expansion for resources.

The human population is almost 8 billion and climbing at around 25 million per year. We are running out of natural resources and under these circumstances no region is a liability, irrespective of whether it is desert or mountain plateau. Two decades ago, Ethiopia and Eritrea had a war over a small desert strip, which killed more than 100,000 people.

But then, the case with China is different. They have territorial disputes with all their neighbors. Some of their neighbors (such as Pakistan and Kazakhstan) have given in to their demands. Others, such as Japan and India have refused to be bullied.

teosanru

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 26, 2020, 08:04:45 PM

Quote from: teosanru on October 26, 2020, 12:20:28 AM

All of this would happen only if Trump wins the election. I think he is the one who started this whole campaign against China to which first China retaliated and then under aegis of USA, India i ls trying to retaliate too. But if Bidden wins I think we might see an altogether different China. Chinese are pretty simple I think they are just interested in business and won't create nuisance until you give them good business which obviously Bidden would support. But I know India won't take the first step in attacking China and China too would be reluctant to announce a full out war with any country so I feel these incidents are just skirmishes and nothing like WW3

This is not a matter of who is leading the country, this is an agreement between four countries. Trump's presidency might have affected it in some way but I think that is besides the point. This so called Chinese interest in business, I do not think that they want just to do businesses. Remember that resources are limited and China knows this, so they decide to make a move by territorial expansion through financial and political leverage. The problem is that all of them do not know how to compromise and each country are trying to one up the other.

Well coming to territorial expansion of China. One thing I can tell you it's not about resources only. It's maybe more about pride or something. They fought harsh for Tibet which is more of a liability than a resource. It's a large piece of barren land with not much to offer. Similarly now they are fighting for some land in Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh with India this land too is more or less barren and apart from having some strategic advantage is useless. HongKong and Taiwan maybe said as expansion for resources.

Lorence.xD

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Quote from: teosanru on October 26, 2020, 12:20:28 AM

All of this would happen only if Trump wins the election. I think he is the one who started this whole campaign against China to which first China retaliated and then under aegis of USA, India i ls trying to retaliate too. But if Bidden wins I think we might see an altogether different China. Chinese are pretty simple I think they are just interested in business and won't create nuisance until you give them good business which obviously Bidden would support. But I know India won't take the first step in attacking China and China too would be reluctant to announce a full out war with any country so I feel these incidents are just skirmishes and nothing like WW3

This is not a matter of who is leading the country, this is an agreement between four countries. Trump's presidency might have affected it in some way but I think that is besides the point. This so called Chinese interest in business, I do not think that they want just to do businesses. Remember that resources are limited and China knows this, so they decide to make a move by territorial expansion through financial and political leverage. The problem is that all of them do not know how to compromise and each country are trying to one up the other.

teosanru

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 22, 2020, 01:21:07 AM

The Malabar exercise incited WW3 fear as Australia joins the naval exercise which is a clear indicator that India is fighting back the aggression by China because in the past they never asked for Australia as a respect. This is wild for politics and I believe that if China continues their aggressive campaign to increase territory and influence then their relations with neighbors will turn more sour than ever. The politic side is pretty obvious and what I want to hear is your thoughts on this news economically.

For me, China has to answer to the sanctions that was issued to them and pay what is due. They also need to fix their relation with their neighbors especially South China Sea/West Philippine Sea. Export and import crossing South China Sea, Indian Ocean will surely suffer because tensions are high on this hotspots.

Link of the article: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1350257/WW3-news-China-US-America-India-Japan-Australia-military-drills-navy-south-china-sea-ont/amp

All of this would happen only if Trump wins the election. I think he is the one who started this whole campaign against China to which first China retaliated and then under aegis of USA, India i ls trying to retaliate too. But if Bidden wins I think we might see an altogether different China. Chinese are pretty simple I think they are just interested in business and won't create nuisance until you give them good business which obviously Bidden would support. But I know India won't take the first step in attacking China and China too would be reluctant to announce a full out war with any country so I feel these incidents are just skirmishes and nothing like WW3

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Quote from: DrG on October 25, 2020, 11:45:38 PM

Let's just look at the most talked about US company in 2020 - Tesla. Xpeng is being sued by Tesla for blatant theft of IP via USB thumb drives where source code was transferred by previous employees. This is not like where former VPs of on auto company like GM go to work for another company like Ford. In that an employee can take ideas and trend, not actually licensed knowledge. Tesla's case is currently waiting to go to trial. Although innocent until proven guilty, this is consistent with how Chinese corporations have worked for 30 years. Why reinvent the wheel when you can steel somebody else's bike.

LOL.. so you're saying that it is easy for someone to carry USB drives to the Tesla office, copy the data from their servers and then carry it outside? If that is the case, then the blame should be placed on Tesla and not on the Chinese hackers. That means that their security and surveillance system was pathetic. If they can't keep their innovations and data secure, then they don't deserve the ownership to those innovations.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on October 23, 2020, 01:23:00 AM

Quote from: Hydrogen on October 22, 2020, 11:35:25 PM

China --arguably-- doesn't contribute real value to global markets.

They only steal other peoples technology, designs. Copyrighted and patented products. Which means they're very replaceable.

Wink

That is not the situation now. One or two decades ago, they were dependent on plagiarism and technology stealing. But now the Chinese are capable of doing innovation. Show me an example of any Chinese company being accused of plagiarism, in the past 2-3 years. It is not easy to replace the Chinese products from our markets. The reason is that no other company has the capability of manufacturing high-quality products at such affordable prices.

Let's just look at the most talked about US company in 2020 - Tesla. Xpeng is being sued by Tesla for blatant theft of IP via USB thumb drives where source code was transferred by previous employees. This is not like where former VPs of on auto company like GM go to work for another company like Ford. In that an employee can take ideas and trend, not actually licensed knowledge. Tesla's case is currently waiting to go to trial. Although innocent until proven guilty, this is consistent with how Chinese corporations have worked for 30 years. Why reinvent the wheel when you can steel somebody else's bike.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Their economy will get hit in coming year as slowly many countries are looking for alternates to China and in coming years, they will also find it. So this means demand of Chinese products will gradually start to decline and only the consumption of the China people and few export somewhere would happen. Thus, economy of country will suffer in such scenario.

If the trend of foreign companies switching their factories/production facilities from other countries that offer the same services as Chinese workers, it definitely can happen. I disagree when it comes to decline of Chinese products, yes the workforce will be hit but they have products that will surely not be affected by the downtrend in companies switching from other countries for production. They have the biggest tech companies in the world and agriculturally speaking, I think they will not lose.

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Quote from: beerlover on October 23, 2020, 01:11:32 PM

Exercises are just show of force, it is a way of saying "look what I have" and that is it, there is really no point to them at all.

Look at Azerbaijan and Armenia right now, there is absolutely no way those two could ever be similar in fire power, right now AZ has turkey backing them as well so it is combined over 90 million population with automating drone strikes and far superior military power going against 3 million population and not even remotely closer to that level military power and you know what is the result is? They are in stalemate that is not going anywhere at all. Reason? Today's wars are not fought and won with guns, sure you can go kill people but it is not going to make it stop nor it won't make it further the cause.

Australia, India, Japan and the whole world can show what weapons they have, hell USA has x30-40 more power than China, but just because you have big guns doesn't mean you can attack and win.

Earlier Russia used to support Armenia and Turkey used to support Azerbaijan. This made sure that the status quo is maintained. But now the situation has changed. Russia has entered in to a lot of economic deals with Turkey and they are ready to sacrifice Armenia in return for $$$ from Turkey. On top of that, we have Donald Trump as the president in the United States and he is not much interested in listening to the pro-Democrat Armenian Americans.

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Quote from: beerlover on October 23, 2020, 01:11:32 PM

Australia, India, Japan and the whole world can show what weapons they have, hell USA has x30-40 more power than China, but just because you have big guns doesn't mean you can attack and win.

AFAIK, China has a bigger naval forces right now. I do not know if this is true but they seem to be arming themselves.

Quote from: jossiel on October 23, 2020, 04:18:30 PM

It is because they have a firm answer and decision that they will not abide by anybody unless it's their own government's decision to move or not.

The problem with their answer is that they are stepping into territories that are exclusive to neighboring countries. Do you think that it is okay they should not answer for their crimes, what are their stance in the Uyghurs reeducation/concentration camps? Shouldn't they answer to that right?

Quote from: Sithara007 on October 23, 2020, 11:26:34 PM

Well.. I agree about the authoritarian nature of the Chinese government. But from what I have heard, the population is not complaining as long as the economy is going up. And talking about face recognition and other surveillance tactics, the so called "democratic" nations are also using them very often these days. And worse, in many cases they are using the Chinese technology and equipment for doing this.

Why would you complain if you do not care about the others that are oppressed just so they can have that lavish lifestyle. Years of propaganda in my opinion have an effect to their citizen. The problem that I see with their use of technology compared to other countries is that they try to make a data out of how you live your life, even the people who visit your house is recorded. Also, they do not complain because they know what happens to those people.

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 23, 2020, 02:15:37 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on October 23, 2020, 01:23:00 AM

That is not the situation now. One or two decades ago, they were dependent on plagiarism and technology stealing. But now the Chinese are capable of doing innovation. Show me an example of any Chinese company being accused of plagiarism, in the past 2-3 years. It is not easy to replace the Chinese products from our markets. The reason is that no other company has the capability of manufacturing high-quality products at such affordable prices.

They are the forefront if not already when it comes to new technology and mega cities, that I will give that to them. The problem with their economy is that most of it are inclusive and most of them are state sponsored or influenced. I agree that they innovate, you can clearly see it in the news, their face recognition technology and their state of the art surveillance system. Also worth mentioning the citizenship points that monitors their citizens behavior. One problem with these innovation is that this technology is used for a totalitarian purposes.

Well.. I agree about the authoritarian nature of the Chinese government. But from what I have heard, the population is not complaining as long as the economy is going up. And talking about face recognition and other surveillance tactics, the so called "democratic" nations are also using them very often these days. And worse, in many cases they are using the Chinese technology and equipment for doing this.

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Quote from: Juggy777 on October 22, 2020, 11:28:02 PM

Quote from: jossiel on October 22, 2020, 06:14:45 PM

This thread is relative to Politics & Society.

Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 22, 2020, 01:21:07 AM

For me, China has to answer to the sanctions that was issued to them and pay what is due. They also need to fix their relation with their neighbors especially South China Sea/West Philippine Sea. Export and import crossing South China Sea, Indian Ocean will surely suffer because tensions are high on this hotspots.

This won't happen.

I'm far from seeing them to be friendly as friendly as accepting the verdict of Internationa Tribunal regards to their neighboring countries about sea domination and ownership.

@jossiel you’re right that this thread doesn’t belong here, and coming back to the topic China has been planning to become a super power and capture as many territories it can, and all of this was highlighted in Xi Jinping plan. Furthermore I’m not sure how do you’ll expect a war with China to happen, because even if China is defeated (which I doubt will happen) but even then how will the remaining countries restore the global economy as China is one of the biggest economy, and no other country can step in and immediately replace them.

Sources:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/05/22/commentary/world-commentary/china-really-want-dominate-world/

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/07/china-us-war/594793/

https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/why-there-wont-be-a-us-china-war/

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/china-now-world’s-largest-economy-we-shouldn’t-be-shocked-170719

If it's about the economy. They have already won against other nations during this pandemic. And for the going through of territories, I think no country can stop them anymore. It's being done a little by little and in different ways like China Debt Trap and going through with their water borders.

Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 22, 2020, 11:51:04 PM

Quote from: jossiel on October 22, 2020, 06:14:45 PM

This thread is relative to Politics & Society.

Should I move it or let it stay here because I specifically talked about what are the possible economic implications of this tensions.

If the mods won't move it, then let's stay here.

Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 22, 2020, 11:51:04 PM

Quote from: jossiel on October 22, 2020, 06:14:45 PM

This won't happen.
I'm far from seeing them to be friendly as friendly as accepting the verdict of Internationa Tribunal regards to their neighboring countries about sea domination and ownership.

That is the saddest thing about this, China has been on due for answering their sanctions and they are not budging an inch because they know their place and capability in the world standing.

It is because they have a firm answer and decision that they will not abide by anybody unless it's their own government's decision to move or not.

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Exercises are just show of force, it is a way of saying "look what I have" and that is it, there is really no point to them at all.

Look at Azerbaijan and Armenia right now, there is absolutely no way those two could ever be similar in fire power, right now AZ has turkey backing them as well so it is combined over 90 million population with automating drone strikes and far superior military power going against 3 million population and not even remotely closer to that level military power and you know what is the result is? They are in stalemate that is not going anywhere at all. Reason? Today's wars are not fought and won with guns, sure you can go kill people but it is not going to make it stop nor it won't make it further the cause.

Australia, India, Japan and the whole world can show what weapons they have, hell USA has x30-40 more power than China, but just because you have big guns doesn't mean you can attack and win.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on October 23, 2020, 01:23:00 AM

Chinese are capable of doing innovation. Show me an example of any Chinese company being accused of plagiarism, in the past 2-3 years.

https://qz.com/771727/chinas-factories-in-shenzhen-can-copy-products-at-breakneck-speed-and-its-time-for-the-rest-of-the-world-to-get-over-it/

This is from 2-3 years ago.

It still happens today even if its never discussed, mentioned or talked about.

Topic: Shit Hits the Fan: Australia joins US, India and Japan in Naval Exercise (Read 386 times)