Pages:
Author

Topic: Shorts on Bitfinex at a all time high! - page 2. (Read 9889 times)

hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Trust me!
April 30, 2015, 08:43:02 AM
The other thing is the ratio between shorts/longs that is more of a indicator of "how dangerous is a short squeeze" if you look right now that's at 21.1%

At what point do you think the risk of a short-squeeze may become too dangerous for shorters?

Yeah, this thread (for me at least) is about: how likely is a short squeeze.

Things is: we simply don't have the data to judge this. Aggregate amount of swaps just doesn't cut it. We'd need a list of positions with price and ideally leverage used. We jcould guesstimage when positions are opened (new swaps taken) and we'd know roughly the price. We could also guesstimate when positions are being closed (swap amount decreses) and we'd know roughly the price. But we'd miss a crucial piece of info: which positions are being closed?

I wish bitfinex (or other exchanges) was radically transparent with that kind of data. Why stop at the orderbook? I'd also like to see a list of stops. No hidden orders, either. That'd resemble a fair playing field.

The way it currently is, the exchange itself (or people working for it), have an unfair advantage against the 'normal' market participants.

Running a fractional reserve scheme or disappropriating user funds seem archaic compared to taking advantage of more detailed than published orderbook status, position and user balance information. That taking advantage would work wholly undetectably and without using special powers (just by making trades through the normal user api), too.

How likely do you guys think is this kind of "insider knowledge" being used by insiders of exchanges?


You're implying something very important: Exchanges know their order book, they know the hidden order, they know the stops (if traders use the exchange stops), and may use these information for their own profit and gain. Sure, it would be more transparent, but would all exchanges be willing to implement it?

Would you rather trade on an exchange that implements this or some other exchange?

Seems to me we need more competition in exchanges regarding transparency and protection against such potential exchange malfeasance.

However, it seems customers most important criteria for picking an exchange to trade on seems to be the liquidity provided and its trading volume.


Granted, it would make the exchanges less shady and more trustworthy, yeah! But a lot of people may prefer the ability to place hidden orders right in front of / behind walls. If there was only one exchange left that offered those features, they would get all the customers requesting such a feature.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
April 30, 2015, 08:24:37 AM
The other thing is the ratio between shorts/longs that is more of a indicator of "how dangerous is a short squeeze" if you look right now that's at 21.1%

At what point do you think the risk of a short-squeeze may become too dangerous for shorters?

Yeah, this thread (for me at least) is about: how likely is a short squeeze.

Things is: we simply don't have the data to judge this. Aggregate amount of swaps just doesn't cut it. We'd need a list of positions with price and ideally leverage used. We jcould guesstimage when positions are opened (new swaps taken) and we'd know roughly the price. We could also guesstimate when positions are being closed (swap amount decreses) and we'd know roughly the price. But we'd miss a crucial piece of info: which positions are being closed?

I wish bitfinex (or other exchanges) was radically transparent with that kind of data. Why stop at the orderbook? I'd also like to see a list of stops. No hidden orders, either. That'd resemble a fair playing field.

The way it currently is, the exchange itself (or people working for it), have an unfair advantage against the 'normal' market participants.

Running a fractional reserve scheme or disappropriating user funds seem archaic compared to taking advantage of more detailed than published orderbook status, position and user balance information. That taking advantage would work wholly undetectably and without using special powers (just by making trades through the normal user api), too.

How likely do you guys think is this kind of "insider knowledge" being used by insiders of exchanges?


You're implying something very important: Exchanges know their order book, they know the hidden order, they know the stops (if traders use the exchange stops), and may use these information for their own profit and gain. Sure, it would be more transparent, but would all exchanges be willing to implement it?

Would you rather trade on an exchange that implements this or some other exchange?

Seems to me we need more competition in exchanges regarding transparency and protection against such potential exchange malfeasance.

However, it seems customers most important criteria for picking an exchange to trade on seems to be the liquidity provided and its trading volume.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Trust me!
April 30, 2015, 08:13:46 AM
The other thing is the ratio between shorts/longs that is more of a indicator of "how dangerous is a short squeeze" if you look right now that's at 21.1%

At what point do you think the risk of a short-squeeze may become too dangerous for shorters?

Yeah, this thread (for me at least) is about: how likely is a short squeeze.

Things is: we simply don't have the data to judge this. Aggregate amount of swaps just doesn't cut it. We'd need a list of positions with price and ideally leverage used. We jcould guesstimage when positions are opened (new swaps taken) and we'd know roughly the price. We could also guesstimate when positions are being closed (swap amount decreses) and we'd know roughly the price. But we'd miss a crucial piece of info: which positions are being closed?

I wish bitfinex (or other exchanges) was radically transparent with that kind of data. Why stop at the orderbook? I'd also like to see a list of stops. No hidden orders, either. That'd resemble a fair playing field.

The way it currently is, the exchange itself (or people working for it), have an unfair advantage against the 'normal' market participants.

Running a fractional reserve scheme or disappropriating user funds seem archaic compared to taking advantage of more detailed than published orderbook status, position and user balance information. That taking advantage would work wholly undetectably and without using special powers (just by making trades through the normal user api), too.

How likely do you guys think is this kind of "insider knowledge" being used by insiders of exchanges?


You're implying something very important: Exchanges know their order book, they know the hidden order, they know the stops (if traders use the exchange stops), and may use these information for their own profit and gain. Sure, it would be more transparent, but would all exchanges be willing to implement it?
legendary
Activity: 3976
Merit: 1421
Life, Love and Laughter...
April 29, 2015, 09:23:54 PM
Thanks.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
April 29, 2015, 08:33:09 PM
What's the update?  Still ATH?

http://bfxdata.com/swaphistory/totals.php

Bookmark this.

Shorts down a bit, longs up a bit.
legendary
Activity: 3976
Merit: 1421
Life, Love and Laughter...
April 29, 2015, 08:22:27 PM
What's the update?  Still ATH?
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1186
April 27, 2015, 09:55:57 PM
The fall after today's bizarre btc-e pump seems too obvious. Does that mean we'll be going back up?
sr. member
Activity: 442
Merit: 250
April 27, 2015, 03:05:47 PM
33k shorts again... Will be interesting to see how will bitfinex trade engine manage next short squeeze.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
April 27, 2015, 02:02:53 PM
I agree, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that 14.4MM USD were LTC longs.

no harm done Wink. Thanks for pointing out some of the USD swaps are likely for LTC longs. I hadn't considered that.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
April 27, 2015, 04:01:06 AM
How likely do you guys think is this kind of "insider knowledge" being used by insiders of exchanges?

I would not be surprised in the least to find out that this occurring.

Regarding the swap rates:  Are you guys still considering the likely possibility that the total USD swaps also include those borrowed for LTC?  It's also very interesting that even on the recent crash down to $160 there were still ~14.5MM in USD longs.  So, If it were me, I'd probably just take ~14.5MM off the current level of longs giving us ~11.3MM longs which I think is a lot more realistic.  Still outweighs the shorts by ~4MM.

I wouldn't draw the conclusion that the 14.4 M USD are LTC longs. They can still be BTC longs with low leverage. It'll be interesting to see in case we break $160 to the downside (which I'm doubtful about, but what can I say, I'm a permabull and have been wrong for 1.5 years now).


I agree, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that 14.4MM USD were LTC longs.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
April 27, 2015, 02:46:34 AM
How likely do you guys think is this kind of "insider knowledge" being used by insiders of exchanges?

I would not be surprised in the least to find out that this occurring.

Regarding the swap rates:  Are you guys still considering the likely possibility that the total USD swaps also include those borrowed for LTC?  It's also very interesting that even on the recent crash down to $160 there were still ~14.5MM in USD longs.  So, If it were me, I'd probably just take ~14.5MM off the current level of longs giving us ~11.3MM longs which I think is a lot more realistic.  Still outweighs the shorts by ~4MM.

I wouldn't draw the conclusion that the 14.4 M USD are LTC longs. They can still be BTC longs with low leverage. It'll be interesting to see in case we break $160 to the downside (which I'm doubtful about, but what can I say, I'm a permabull and have been wrong for 1.5 years now).
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
April 27, 2015, 01:55:11 AM
How likely do you guys think is this kind of "insider knowledge" being used by insiders of exchanges?

I would not be surprised in the least to find out that this occurring.

Regarding the swap rates:  Are you guys still considering the likely possibility that the total USD swaps also include those borrowed for LTC?  It's also very interesting that even on the recent crash down to $160 there were still ~14.5MM in USD longs.  So, If it were me, I'd probably just take ~14.5MM off the current level of longs giving us ~11.3MM longs which I think is a lot more realistic.  Still outweighs the shorts by ~4MM.
member
Activity: 73
Merit: 10
April 27, 2015, 01:50:50 AM
The other thing is the ratio between shorts/longs that is more of a indicator of "how dangerous is a short squeeze" if you look right now that's at 21.1%

At what point do you think the risk of a short-squeeze may become too dangerous for shorters?

Yeah, this thread (for me at least) is about: how likely is a short squeeze.

Things is: we simply don't have the data to judge this. Aggregate amount of swaps just doesn't cut it. We'd need a list of positions with price and ideally leverage used. We jcould guesstimage when positions are opened (new swaps taken) and we'd know roughly the price. We could also guesstimate when positions are being closed (swap amount decreses) and we'd know roughly the price. But we'd miss a crucial piece of info: which positions are being closed?

I wish bitfinex (or other exchanges) was radically transparent with that kind of data. Why stop at the orderbook? I'd also like to see a list of stops. No hidden orders, either. That'd resemble a fair playing field.

The way it currently is, the exchange itself (or people working for it), have an unfair advantage against the 'normal' market participants.

Running a fractional reserve scheme or disappropriating user funds seem archaic compared to taking advantage of more detailed than published orderbook status, position and user balance information. That taking advantage would work wholly undetectably and without using special powers (just by making trades through the normal user api), too.

How likely do you guys think is this kind of "insider knowledge" being used by insiders of exchanges?


I think it certain. Considering we had the libor scandal from what was considered a regulated/accountable/transparent system I think insiders are going at it as fast as they can. Its not being stopped by anyone. is is also a little ironic that one of the benefits of bitcoin was that it would stop "people clipping the ticket" on the way through eg fees from credit card companies. But at least we knew what they were. Who knows how much insiders are adding to the cost of doing business. bring on the twins asap ( assuming their exchange will be blocked from doing this)   
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
April 27, 2015, 01:36:28 AM
I would absolutely believe it at this point Sad
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
April 27, 2015, 12:10:11 AM
The other thing is the ratio between shorts/longs that is more of a indicator of "how dangerous is a short squeeze" if you look right now that's at 21.1%

At what point do you think the risk of a short-squeeze may become too dangerous for shorters?

Yeah, this thread (for me at least) is about: how likely is a short squeeze.

Things is: we simply don't have the data to judge this. Aggregate amount of swaps just doesn't cut it. We'd need a list of positions with price and ideally leverage used. We jcould guesstimage when positions are opened (new swaps taken) and we'd know roughly the price. We could also guesstimate when positions are being closed (swap amount decreses) and we'd know roughly the price. But we'd miss a crucial piece of info: which positions are being closed?

I wish bitfinex (or other exchanges) was radically transparent with that kind of data. Why stop at the orderbook? I'd also like to see a list of stops. No hidden orders, either. That'd resemble a fair playing field.

The way it currently is, the exchange itself (or people working for it), have an unfair advantage against the 'normal' market participants.

Running a fractional reserve scheme or disappropriating user funds seem archaic compared to taking advantage of more detailed than published orderbook status, position and user balance information. That taking advantage would work wholly undetectably and without using special powers (just by making trades through the normal user api), too.

How likely do you guys think is this kind of "insider knowledge" being used by insiders of exchanges?
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Trust me!
April 26, 2015, 08:18:48 PM
yeah.
To say what this thread really is supposed be about: How overextend is the short/long side in comparison?
In context of the previous ATH that is 81.8% of the ATH for longs and 95.5% for shorts.

The other thing is the ratio between shorts/longs that is more of a indicator of "how dangerous is a short squeeze" if you look right now that's at 21.1%

I think that's still not too dangerous at the moment, given the prevailing sentiment of a prolonged bear-market. This rate could easily go up big time, still. At what point do you think the risk of a short-squeeze may become too dangerous for shorters?
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
April 26, 2015, 03:16:47 PM
yeah.
To say what this thread really is supposed be about: How overextend is the short/long side in comparison?
In context of the previous ATH that is 81.8% of the ATH for longs and 95.5% for shorts.

The other thing is the ratio between shorts/longs that is more of a indicator of "how dangerous is a short squeeze" if you look right now that's at 21.1%
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
April 26, 2015, 02:50:20 PM


I'm still flabbergasted by the amount of USD swaps.

better, electricmucus?
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
April 26, 2015, 02:22:18 PM


yet another ATH in BTC swaps.

I'm still flabbergasted by the amount of USD swaps, though. It's still roughly 4-5 times higher than the BTC ones.


Are you guys purposefully ignorant? There is a chart intended to compare the value of swaps on this very site.

Oh of course the amount of Bitcoins required for a certain amount of value in swap lingo went up when prices went down.

If you want to judge the sediment you guys are using the wrong chart.

https://bfxdata.com/sentiment/longshort
Quote
Total Active Long Swaps vs Short Swaps vs BTCUSD price (shorts expressed in USD equivalent): displays the total sum of all active swaps on bitfinex. the green area is the total sum of USD swaps over time (i.e swaps used for long positions, margin traders use USD swaps in long positions). The 2 red areas represent the total sum of BTC and LTC Swaps (i.e swaps used for short positions, margin traders use BTC / LTC swaps in short positions). To make the values better comparable I represented the sum of BTC and LTC swaps in USD worth. otherwise you would be comparing apples and oranges Wink


I hate quoting myself but it's on page 2
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
April 26, 2015, 01:04:06 PM
Miners haven't been mining at such great loss for a long time, so they hold or they short. Most of them are smart and know the market is collapsing, so they short, causing more pressure for the market to go down, causing them to have to short more, causing more pressure. See this market CAN only crash, there isn't even potential to go up.

There's a flaw in your logic:

Miners don't have to increase their hedging volume when price drops.
Pages:
Jump to: