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Topic: Should Everything Be Decentralized? - page 4. (Read 4409 times)

legendary
Activity: 868
Merit: 1006
February 22, 2015, 05:54:41 PM
#30
yes, absolutely EVERYTHING needs to be decentralized

Comments like these show you many are completely clueless about what decentralization is and how it works.  These people should be enrolled in that Princeton class instead of posting nonsense on discussion boards.
Most are delusional anarcho capitalists like Jeff Berwick.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
February 22, 2015, 10:58:56 AM
#29
centralization have it's own advantages and it's pretty good with it Smiley
hero member
Activity: 510
Merit: 500
February 22, 2015, 09:35:16 AM
#28
The other day I was thinking bitcoin itself is decentralized, but everything around it is centralized or striving towards being centralized. Let's just take a look at this forum for example. Here are certain people in such power that if they decide, they can destroy you - your forum nickname. Members with trust can give you negative trust for no reason and you have no way to fight against that. Admins can ban you with no reason. Isn't that the principle of "centralization" - a few people having power to do anything and with no justified reasons?

But on the other hand if you want to get something done you have to achieve a consensus of all the participants.  That is slow and expensive and the world would essentially come to a halt if everything were done that way.  Everybody involved should try mining and see how difficult and expensive it is and if you use Bitcoin for any length of time you run up against confirmation issues.  It taking too long to be viable in certain use cases and people substitute centralized services (Bitpay, coinbase, etc.) to compensate for that. 
full member
Activity: 147
Merit: 100
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February 22, 2015, 09:01:16 AM
#27
The other day I was thinking bitcoin itself is decentralized, but everything around it is centralized or striving towards being centralized. Let's just take a look at this forum for example. Here are certain people in such power that if they decide, they can destroy you - your forum nickname. Members with trust can give you negative trust for no reason and you have no way to fight against that. Admins can ban you with no reason. Isn't that the principle of "centralization" - a few people having power to do anything and with no justified reasons?
hero member
Activity: 510
Merit: 500
February 22, 2015, 08:31:56 AM
#26
yes, absolutely EVERYTHING needs to be decentralized

Comments like these show you many are completely clueless about what decentralization is and how it works.  These people should be enrolled in that Princeton class instead of posting nonsense on discussion boards.
hero member
Activity: 510
Merit: 500
February 22, 2015, 08:29:33 AM
#25
I just read an interesting quote from satoshi that dannyhamilton posted in another thread concerning the number of nodes.
Basically satoshi really didn't intend bitcoin to be completely decentralized.
He expected huge server farms to be left to run the nodes. While everyone else runs a light wallet and synchs with
one of possibly a hundred server farm nodes.
I think a digital currency needs to be decentralized more myself or it's just playing into the hands of a one world government.
Where all citizens have a ipv6 address and everything is connected to their address like americas SS #
Your wallet will be generated against your IPv6 addy and all transactions will be credited/debited through this.
sounds kind of sci-fi tin hat huh?


It does not matter.  What matters is the consensus moving forward.  Bitcoin is about decentralization and not depending on one person or thing.  Some people treat Bitcoin like some kind of religion and Satoshi as some kind of "prophet."   Clearly, Satoshi did not view himself that way and he didn't want all this drama and nonsense surrounding one individual. 
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
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February 21, 2015, 10:26:04 PM
#24
yes, absolutely EVERYTHING needs to be decentralized
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
February 21, 2015, 09:27:16 PM
#23
All things are relative. Dogmatism is always proved to failure.(And even this sentence proves itself as false and is self-contradictory. Smiley )

When i talk about centralisation, it often concerns centralisation of power.
When you delegate power and centralise it in to the hands of one person, it
often happens and happened that this person uses the power to do bad things.

When you centralise money supply and the issuer can legally force the people to
use his money as legal-money, you create a dangerous monopole. Dangerous for
the wealth of those who use this money. How long are governments printing money to decrease their dept and for reasons of "economic stimulation"?
Think of something named "Cantillon-effect".

Centralisation often makes that you depend on a monopole. That is simply not good! In this context you can speak of decentralisation as free market-competition.

Everything has it's pros and contras. So has decentralisation.
But when it comes to terms or issues like money and power, centralisation leads to a unreasonable hierachy that very often "makes some more equal than others"!
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
February 21, 2015, 08:26:05 PM
#22
I just read an interesting quote from satoshi that dannyhamilton posted in another thread concerning the number of nodes.
Basically satoshi really didn't intend bitcoin to be completely decentralized.
He expected huge server farms to be left to run the nodes. While everyone else runs a light wallet and synchs with
one of possibly a hundred server farm nodes.
I think a digital currency needs to be decentralized more myself or it's just playing into the hands of a one world government.
Where all citizens have a ipv6 address and everything is connected to their address like americas SS #
Your wallet will be generated against your IPv6 addy and all transactions will be credited/debited through this.
sounds kind of sci-fi tin hat huh?
Q7
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
February 21, 2015, 08:11:32 PM
#21
I prefer decentralization based the basis that nobody can controls it or shut it down. Based on that reason alone any other justification may not be important. That's how I think...
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1183
February 21, 2015, 07:29:35 PM
#20
Anarchocapitalist advocates often are out of arguments when confronted about the obvious problems 0% regulation generates.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1007
Sooner or later, a man who wears two faces forgets
February 21, 2015, 03:26:12 PM
#19
Decentralization is expensive, slow and difficult to do and is not needed or warranted for most things.

If you want to understand Bitcoin you have to learn to ignore the "wing nuts" and focus on the technology.  Many people make exaggerated claims because they are using Bitcoin to promote a political agenda or they are cultists.  I would suggest enrolling in the Princeton U class at https://piazza.com/princeton/spring2015/btctech/home rather than listening to random people who misrepresent or exaggerate things.

Really had some messed up comments on this myself , but i won't now
Thank you for the link , this seems pretty helpful for learning Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1014
February 21, 2015, 12:02:06 PM
#18
Not everything, but there should be decentralized alternatives toward the official centralized ones.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
February 21, 2015, 11:47:09 AM
#17
Some people in Bitcoin are arguing that everything (or most things) should be decentralized. I firmly disagree with them, and here's why:

1. There's only a limited amount of world-class programmers - if they are working on 1000 different projects it's very likely that 950 of these projects won't be used by more than just a few people - effectively wasting a lot of time that could be used to make a huge project.

2. Usability: Most projects that are trying to "decentralize" are not user-friendly at all. Companies however are building very user-friendly software and manage to actually attract a lot of users (see: coinbase.com)

There are certainly a few cool projects that are decentralized, but most of them will probably remain to be unknown by the general public.

Comments?

I think the question is: (Why) Should everything be centralized?

Decentralization gives dev's the opportunity to work in whatever they want, and donate their time accordingly...

As for usability, Internet wasn't suable a few years back. Look at it now... Smiley

A change takes time. And to see if the change is worth it, we must kill that time by making the change happen. Only in the end, when we see the results, we can see if it was worth it. I think it will be, in the long run.
hero member
Activity: 510
Merit: 500
February 21, 2015, 11:39:11 AM
#16
We should decentralise everything we can in my opinion.

First sensible thing I've read in this forum all day

So you are going to have a mining systems for everything?   Are you going to mine at a loss to keep it going?  Do you mine now at home?  If not I have some miners in the attic that will cost you 2 or 3 times as much to run as you will get back in Bitcoin.  Will you run them and spend hundreds per month on electricity for no direct benefit to you?


Idk, I guess in some places is not profitable to mine but where electricity is cheap or free it is profittable. Exchanges should be decentralised to we avoid "hacks" when exchange declare that someone hacked them and vanish with ppls coins. Also decentralisation of everything we can prevent service to be scam and that is also one of main Bitcoin problems.

Decentralisation is not equal to mining, it does require some sort of investment, it will cost you your computerpower and some electricity, but how bad is it to invest in something that will decentralise a part of your wellbeing? How bad is it to contribute to a free-er world without getting financial benefit?


Like I said above I suggest enrolling in the Princeton class about Bitcoin because the comments here show that most people posting here don't understand what decentralization is and how it is achieved.  Decentralization does not atomically prevent scams and it almost never the most efficient way of doing things.  In some cases it might be worth it but those cases are in the minority.  Some people here talk about Reddit being "decentralized" because there are upvotes, etc.  If that worked we could just post the blockchain on there and do away with all the mining expenses. 

I never said anything was good or bad, I just pointed out that people won't expend resources without a direct benefit to them.  Saying "other people" should do it then you are back to the centralized system you want to avoid. 

 
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I can draw your avatar!
February 21, 2015, 09:51:21 AM
#15
We should decentralise everything we can in my opinion.

First sensible thing I've read in this forum all day

So you are going to have a mining systems for everything?   Are you going to mine at a loss to keep it going?  Do you mine now at home?  If not I have some miners in the attic that will cost you 2 or 3 times as much to run as you will get back in Bitcoin.  Will you run them and spend hundreds per month on electricity for no direct benefit to you?


Idk, I guess in some places is not profitable to mine but where electricity is cheap or free it is profittable. Exchanges should be decentralised to we avoid "hacks" when exchange declare that someone hacked them and vanish with ppls coins. Also decentralisation of everything we can prevent service to be scam and that is also one of main Bitcoin problems.

Decentralisation is not equal to mining, it does require some sort of investment, it will cost you your computerpower and some electricity, but how bad is it to invest in something that will decentralise a part of your wellbeing? How bad is it to contribute to a free-er world without getting financial benefit?
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
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February 21, 2015, 09:47:41 AM
#14
We should decentralise everything we can in my opinion.

First sensible thing I've read in this forum all day

So you are going to have a mining systems for everything?   Are you going to mine at a loss to keep it going?  Do you mine now at home?  If not I have some miners in the attic that will cost you 2 or 3 times as much to run as you will get back in Bitcoin.  Will you run them and spend hundreds per month on electricity for no direct benefit to you?


Idk, I guess in some places is not profitable to mine but where electricity is cheap or free it is profittable. Exchanges should be decentralised to we avoid "hacks" when exchange declare that someone hacked them and vanish with ppls coins. Also decentralisation of everything we can prevent service to be scam and that is also one of main Bitcoin problems.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I can draw your avatar!
February 21, 2015, 09:27:02 AM
#13
The Internet started as a decentralised network, basicly it still is, though there are many single points of failure that will break the whole network, something that the initial decentralisation of the network was designed to circumvent. Bitcoin is growing towards that state too, where allready we put our trust in big Chinese mining rigs and online wallet facilities that almost operate like banks! So beware for the mistakes we allready made with decentralised technology and with the old fashioned fiat!!
legendary
Activity: 1424
Merit: 1001
February 21, 2015, 09:24:11 AM
#12
Not everything but the most important things should be decentralized. For example banking system. We don't need centralized banking system and a government which emulate money with no backup. We also don't need centralized exchange systems. Why do we trust them? They say they are hacked and they run anyway.
OTOH we need private companies to produce better and usable things. Technology is developing faster when you have profit realisation. No profit, less development.
hero member
Activity: 510
Merit: 500
February 21, 2015, 09:17:27 AM
#11
We should decentralise everything we can in my opinion.

First sensible thing I've read in this forum all day

So you are going to have a mining systems for everything?   Are you going to mine at a loss to keep it going?  Do you mine now at home?  If not I have some miners in the attic that will cost you 2 or 3 times as much to run as you will get back in Bitcoin.  Will you run them and spend hundreds per month on electricity for no direct benefit to you?
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