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Topic: Should the forum stop advertising mixers? - page 3. (Read 1449 times)

hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 772
Watch Bitcoin Documentary - https://t.ly/v0Nim
Seems his alt account was hotpassion
That makes no sense, "hotpassion" was selling Paypal funds for Bitcoin. I always assumed CM was loaded in Bitcoins. Why would they sell small amounts of Paypal funds?
That's written in government's press-release document. The PayPal account with the name “MINH NGUYEN,” email address - [email protected].
Quote
On December 27, 2022, there was a credit card payment received from MINH NGUYEN, email address 32 Case 2:23-mj-00528 Document 1 Filed 03/14/23 Page 33 of 60 33 [email protected] for $150.00 with the comment “Thanks.” This transaction demonstrates the fact that NGUYEN is utilizing a personal payment method to fund operational ChipMixer infrastructure.
He was using [email protected] to help hide his involment in the ChipMixer scheme. Phone number +84982468446 was used as the recovery phone number for [email protected]. At the same time, this phone number was used as the recovery phone number for [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected]

Quote
Open-source research conducted on the username “hotpassion” used by NGUYEN revealed this moniker is also used on BitcoinTalk where the profile advertises exchanging bitcoin for fiat currency from PayPal accounts. For example, the user posted “Bitcoin to PayPal – Pay $170 get 200$ in PayPal.” In addition, “hotpassion” included a link on their BitcoinTalk profile to their account on Bitify. The username on Bitify is “LovePayPal” and there are comments listed where users purchased balances from PayPal accounts or reference what appears to be the purchasing of stolen identities and identifying documents.
Quote
Open-source research conducted on the moniker “minhoba” used by NGUYEN revealed a post on the forum BlackHatWorld (blackhatworld.com). The user “minhoba” posted the following on the forum in February 2009 with the title, “How To Unlimit Your Paypal Acc”
Quote
On October 12, 2022, the FBI served a federal search warrant to Google for the account [email protected]. James Smith was an alias account used by NGUYEN to hide his involvement in ChipMixer. The [email protected] account listed the name “Smith James” as the subscriber and [email protected] as the recovery email address. Google records revealed a June 21, 2022, email from Bitify, a Bitcoin and Litecoin marketplace and auction site, which described a payment of 0.00455231 bitcoin to the account for the item “Bitcoin to PayPal – Pay $100 get 110$ in PayPal” by a user whose moniker is the same as the last name of the V3 Subscriber from Hetzner.
Quote
Open-source research conducted on Remitano revealed that Remitano is a P2P Bitcoin marketplace for buying and sell bitcoin. Records provided by Remitano for those transactions revealed an account used by NGUYEN with the username “hotpassion.”
Quote
from Remitano also revealed KYC ("Know Your Customer") information including a picture of an individual resembling NGUYEN holding an identification card with the name MINH QUOC NGUYEN and date of birth 10/21/1973. Also included as part of the KYC is a Vietnamese passport (Figure 6) with a picture (Figure 7) resembling the individual in the Binance KYC picture (Figure 4), with the name of MINH QUOC NGUYEN and date of birth 10/21/1973. Also, the picture ID being held in Figure 7 is the same picture ID provided to Binance (Figure 4). The bank account associated is an account at Vietcombank in Vietnam:
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
You could use the same analogy for people who have casino signatures. Online gambling is not legal in a lot of places.

Or people advertising anything related to bitcoin in a country where bitcoin is banned.



It's sickening that people are considering things like ordinals and mixers to be the public enemy #1, and meanwhile nobody is doing (or even talking about) anything about heists that steal coins from people on a daily basis, or all of the misinformation about crypto being bleated to millions of people daily.
full member
Activity: 798
Merit: 134
Usually every platform has their own rules and regulations, banning mixer doesn't have anything to do over here, let say they chooses to promote their project here on Bitcointalk but Bitcointalk doesn't have any power over their privacy, policy or that concerns any regulation with mixer. Banning them have no effects on the forum, I have seen many projects that scam people that doesn't mean the forum scammed people so those projects were only flagged but Bitcointalk did not ban them.
sr. member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 268
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
Do you know the number of scam ads that google may have? Ads can be for scammers.
Stop posting shit please. Don't teach me about theory, things on paper.

I am talking about prevention, not want to see the forum seize.

What the hell did @charles-tim say? after all, what he said was right and he actually had a point about it.

     I don't know if you are just making a big deal out of what you are saying, what he said is not out of context but it is still related to the topic you did, or maybe you just didn't understand what Charles said?
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 443
Seems his alt account was hotpassion
What makes you think it's an alternative account?
Does anyone know if he was arrested or not? Do the local authorities cooperate in such crimes or not?

- Yamane
legendary
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6231
Crypto Swap Exchange
Mixers are not prohibited by law.

In the US, a money transmitter license is required as mixers are classified as a "money services business." No mixer has one, as far as I know...

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1574581/download

Quote
18. Based on my training and experience, I am aware the Bank Secrecy Act requires
anyone who owns or controls a money transmitting business to register with the United States
Department of the Treasury
. See 31 U.S.C. § 5330(a)(1). I am further aware that federal
regulations issued pursuant to the Bank Secrecy Act define a “money services business,” which
include “money transmitter(s).” 31 C.F.R. § 1010.100(ff)(5). Money transmitters are defined
broadly to include anyone who “accept(s) . . . currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for
currency from one person and . . . transmi(ts) . . . currency, funds, or other value that substitutes
for currency to another location or person by any means,” as well as “[a]ny other person engaged
in the transfer of funds.” 31 C.F.R. § 1010.100(ff)(5)(i)(A)-(B). MSBs are required to register
with FinCEN, a division of the Department of the Treasury
, unless specific exemptions apply. 31
C.F.R. § 1022.380(a)(1). MSBs are required to establish and maintain anti-money laundering
programs, to detect and report suspicious transactions, and to collect certain records of customers
and customer transactions. I am further aware that bitcoin “mixers” or “tumblers” such as
ChipMixer are considered to be MSBs under federal law
. See U.S. Department of Treasury
FinCEN Guidance, Application of FinCEN’s Regulations to Certain Business Models Involving
Convertible Virtual Currencies, FIN-2019-G001 (May 9, 2019), at 19-20.

Sorry to put it so bluntly but anyone advertising a mixer that doesn't have this license is advertising an illegal business (if the business is servicing US-based customers, anyway).

Funny, its actually been the case since May 2019, but either nobody here knew this or the ones who did never said anything about it.

Not saying the forum administration needs to make changes either way, but individuals participating in mixer sig campaigns should at least be aware of this.

You could use the same analogy for people who have casino signatures. Online gambling is not legal in a lot of places.
On that note, how many casinos that people were wearing sigs for cut and ran with peoples money vs mixers?

How many mixers had / have complaints against them for taking seizing peoples funds vs mixers?

As for the amount of data, 7tb is a lot until you figure that the blockchain is 500+gb 2 copies of that and you are at over 1tb

-Dave
hero member
Activity: 1540
Merit: 744
I wonder how many people used that service, 7 TB of data, lol it looks like they logged everything.

How are they going to pay back? By selling out those who used their services. D'uh.

That should be a lesson learned for everybody. Everything you do on the internet gets logged. Everything. If someone says otherwise, he is lying.

Do you think Chipmixer would have the details of those that accessed their website with TOR browser? Just wondering because their customers care so much about privacy and wouldn't access the site with legit IP. Besides, I don't understand why forum users are quarried about BTT appearing on a government document issued by the FBI. Chipmixer was promoted here by top reputable members, yet that doesn't make chipmixer, bitcointalk. The FBI are concerned about the illicit actions that chipmixer carried out with its customers and the huge amount of money they've mixed without traces. Why did the government appear now they mixed about $3b worth of transaction. If they freeze this forum how much money would they realize? who is their target? the government is after money nothing else. Chipmixer is not licensed that means they've gotten nothing monetary from the mixer yet they are making lots of money with the US citizens. And break laws, its allegedly used to rinse ransomware funds, fraud stores funds, dark web transaction etc. What matters is that these allegation doesn't make Nguyen guilty, until he is tried in court. Until then we'll know the faith of Chipmixer.

TOR is probably not as safe as you’d think. I don't know how, but I am pretty sure I read the news about people getting caught even though they used TOR. Caring about your privacy don't make you a privacy expert in an instant.

In fact, the greatest privacy experts out there know that the best way to remain anonymous is staying offline. Means, not playing this game at all.

They won't go after BTT unless it is in their interest to do so. I don't think we are there yet.
Just Tor itself isn't safe; I've used it in the past and accessed onion links in the so-called deep web just out of pure curiosity. There's still a chance to get caught even if you use a proxy or VPN in combination; it just makes the process harder and more time-consuming.

I'm not against Bitcoin mixers, but it was expected that such a tool would be used for malicious purposes. The average Joe who uses, holds, or trades Bitcoin wouldn't need a coin mixer. Bitcointalk is not liable for a service that is being advertised, as long as it delivers the service it offers.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
Seems his alt account was hotpassion
That makes no sense, "hotpassion" was selling Paypal funds for Bitcoin. I always assumed CM was loaded in Bitcoins. Why would they sell small amounts of Paypal funds?

Bad people use mixers, bad people use casinos, bad people are everywhere. Why not shut it all down??  Huh
Almost anything can be used for good and for evil. Tor browser for instance is used by many scumbags, but also helps dissidents in their fight for a better country. Knives, guns, cars, hammers, privacy, everything can be used to hurt people. That doesn't mean good people should give up their rights and freedom.
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 791
Bitcoin To The Moon 📈📈📈
Whether the forum decides to stop allowing mixers to advertise is not as important as should all mixers be considered illegal? Is every transaction ran through a mixer an illegal transaction? We all know that people use mixers for illegal activity but are all transactions a mixer incurs an illegal transaction? So, why are mixers needed? Legit question IMO. The days of privacy are basically over.

What about sinbad mixer, are they next?
We don't know what happened next because theymos haven't announced anything about this and I don't think the forums will ban advertising mixers here because somehow it's not being moderated about fraud or other illegal acts.

Usually mixer transactions are just for privacy but once it was only used by the right people, but basically we really don't know whether there is more money laundering because there are lots of hacks so the mixer is a solution for them not to be detected?

subconsciously we are now regulated by the government so much that privacy becomes difficult for us.
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 9
Many mixers were seized but it is a first time I read documents mentioned Bitcointalk directly like this by Chipmixer seize.
You're misinformed. Posts on bctalk have been brought up in many legal cases, including several high profile ponzi scammer cases. Yet ponzi scammers are still here and not banned, even one you quoted in OP.

when mixing sites get banned here for promoting money laundering
Nobody promoted money laundering. You're hypocrisy is just wow as you walk around promoting a casino which has been magnet for money laundering long before mixers ever existed. .

Step 1, get a dunce hat.
Step 2, put it on.

Should forum admin consider to stop all campaigns related to mixers?
No not without a court order. If they decide that, they should move to end sig campaigns all together.

Bad people use mixers, bad people use casinos, bad people are everywhere. Why not shut it all down??  Huh
full member
Activity: 1092
Merit: 227
If we take into account your reference to scamming then we should also stop advertising ICO agendas, we should stop promoting any altcoin project that is mostly going to be doomed in the future, or we should probably ban the casino’s who can get shut down or could turn out to be scammer's.

If you also visit the bounty section then there are ton of bounties which are leaving the forum without any payments to the participants.

Exchangers- they are driving crazy these days. Many of them are used, talked, shared and published on forum, what about them? They are ticking bombs all the time!

If we started counting back, then we may just need to keep development and technical related threads and meta. Rest of the forum can be deleted.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1284
I would be a little worried if I was wearing the chipmixer signature as the US government and its laws will basically allow advertisers/celebrities to be charged in a court of law for advertising a service.

I do not know, I am not a lawyer, but I do not think that there is an explicit law that makes mixers illegal, and therefore how will you hold accountable someone who promoted the site before it was seized.
The file listing the details of the case contained more than 60 pages and did not mention at any thing about chipmixer signature.
Would theymos have to comply if the goverment steps in and asks for IPs of all who wore a ?
They don't need to, the number of people who visit Speedsheet periodically will narrow their search.
It is not the first case that Bitcoin Mixer has been seized and none of the participants in the signature campaign have been charged
legendary
Activity: 3584
Merit: 4420
Whether the forum decides to stop allowing mixers to advertise is not as important as should all mixers be considered illegal? Is every transaction ran through a mixer an illegal transaction? We all know that people use mixers for illegal activity but are all transactions a mixer incurs an illegal transaction? So, why are mixers needed? Legit question IMO. The days of privacy are basically over.

What about sinbad mixer, are they next?
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 2218
💲🏎️💨🚓
I think I'm going to shine my "rejected applicant" badge I got (along with a blocking by the DT1/2 Trolls who were actively singing the Chipmixers' praises).

I wonder how many of those vocal advocates of Chipmixer are about to fall silent?

I've already seen one person has deleted their entire tread concerning Chipmixer and hidden it in the archive section...

🧐
legendary
Activity: 2856
Merit: 1494
Pie Baking Contest: https://tinyurl.com/2s3z6dee
I know forum is against porn campaigns so how about mixers after this fiasco?
Wait what? Is this the reason why I cant find any NFSW images anymore in off-topic secti...  Embarrassed oh nvm *clears throat*



Many mixers were seized but it is a first time I read documents mentioned Bitcointalk directly like this by Chipmixer seize.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1574581/download

Should forum admin consider to stop all campaigns related to mixers?
I think this is one of the reasons why theymos decided to close the ads auction, because it's not easy to check if auction participants are legit or not. Especially mixers, it's hard to tell, since it's in a grey area, same like porn and gambling. Though, there are many people as well took the advantage of using it. I used Bitmixer.io regularly in the past and all of our transaction went well.



are you sure? This is one of the signature campaigns for a porn site Xotika.TV Signature Campaign - Earn Bitcoins the sexy way!
Damn I was the participant there! You dug down so deep Shocked

legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 2420
I wonder how many people used that service, 7 TB of data, lol it looks like they logged everything.

How are they going to pay back? By selling out those who used their services. D'uh.

That should be a lesson learned for everybody. Everything you do on the internet gets logged. Everything. If someone says otherwise, he is lying.

Do you think Chipmixer would have the details of those that accessed their website with TOR browser? Just wondering because their customers care so much about privacy and wouldn't access the site with legit IP. Besides, I don't understand why forum users are quarried about BTT appearing on a government document issued by the FBI. Chipmixer was promoted here by top reputable members, yet that doesn't make chipmixer, bitcointalk. The FBI are concerned about the illicit actions that chipmixer carried out with its customers and the huge amount of money they've mixed without traces. Why did the government appear now they mixed about $3b worth of transaction. If they freeze this forum how much money would they realize? who is their target? the government is after money nothing else. Chipmixer is not licensed that means they've gotten nothing monetary from the mixer yet they are making lots of money with the US citizens. And break laws, its allegedly used to rinse ransomware funds, fraud stores funds, dark web transaction etc. What matters is that these allegation doesn't make Nguyen guilty, until he is tried in court. Until then we'll know the faith of Chipmixer.

TOR is probably not as safe as you’d think. I don't know how, but I am pretty sure I read the news about people getting caught even though they used TOR. Caring about your privacy don't make you a privacy expert in an instant.

In fact, the greatest privacy experts out there know that the best way to remain anonymous is staying offline. Means, not playing this game at all.

They won't go after BTT unless it is in their interest to do so. I don't think we are there yet.
hero member
Activity: 1204
Merit: 596
When life gets hard BUY Bitcoin!

should this forum take responsibility for all the crap that has happened so far, starting from MtGox to FTX, many discussions were held about all this.

Just want weigh in here. Mt Gox, FTX and other scammy shit doesn’t promote here. Probably they promote for a few months but that’s it. Mixer is widely promoting here through signature campaign. Somehow this is scary in case US will create an unfavorable analogy that forum is being use to advertise mixers that involves on money laundering.

I’m not against mixers promotion but it’s just hard to argue with authorities if somehow more mixers becomes involved and seize. I’m sure Bitcointalk will be subjected for investigation as common place which this mixer hangout for promotion.
hero member
Activity: 1078
Merit: 509
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
I wonder how many people used that service, 7 TB of data, lol it looks like they logged everything.

How are they going to pay back? By selling out those who used their services. D'uh.

That should be a lesson learned for everybody. Everything you do on the internet gets logged. Everything. If someone says otherwise, he is lying.

Do you think Chipmixer would have the details of those that accessed their website with TOR browser? Just wondering because their customers care so much about privacy and wouldn't access the site with legit IP. Besides, I don't understand why forum users are worried about BTT appearing on a government document issued by the FBI. Chipmixer was promoted here by top reputable members, yet that doesn't make chipmixer, bitcointalk. The FBI are concerned about the illicit actions that chipmixer carried out with its customers and the huge amount of money they've mixed without traces. Why did the government appear now they mixed about $3b worth of transaction. If they freeze this forum how much money would they realize? who is their target? the government is after money nothing else. Chipmixer is not licensed that means they've gotten nothing monetary from the mixer yet they are making lots of money with the US citizens. And break laws, its allegedly used to rinse ransomware funds, fraud stores funds, dark web transaction etc. What matters is that these allegation doesn't make Nguyen guilty, until he is tried in court. Until then we'll know the faith of Chipmixer.
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 2420
Would theymos have to comply if the goverment steps in and asks for IPs of all who wore a chipmixer signature?

Theymos will give everybody's IP's on a platter.  Grin Nobody else is more precious than my own skin. That's a common algorithm for the humans. It is called selfishness. Me first everybody else later. Theymos will also act according to this code especially when they make him face a jail sentence. He will chicken out and I don't blame him. I would do the same thing.
legendary
Activity: 3584
Merit: 4420
I would be a little worried if I was wearing the chipmixer signature as the US government and its laws will basically allow advertisers/celebrities to be charged in a court of law for advertising a service.

Look at FTX and the celebrities they're going after.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/ftx-crypto-investors-sue-founder-sam-bankman-fried-celebrity-promoters-rcna57453

Is it considered the same? I am not going to pretend to be a lawyer but looks like the government will try to make their point by any means necessary. Would theymos have to comply if the goverment steps in and asks for IPs of all who wore a chipmixer signature?

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