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Topic: Should we (the investors, I mean) help incentivize p2pool? (Read 2813 times)

legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
Why not just change the line with the beep to
echo "$info"|mail -s "Dead Bitcoin Miner" $email

and for $email, suggest a mobile gateway so the user can get a SMS alert.

Yes, for programmers that would be the way to go. I personally don't need sms nor e-mail notifications and thus I did not implement the functionality.
full member
Activity: 193
Merit: 117
HODL
Why not just change the line with the beep to
echo "$info"|mail -s "Dead Bitcoin Miner" $email

and for $email, suggest a mobile gateway so the user can get a SMS alert.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
If anyone is interested in looking what P2Pool developers have been doing lately, then browse around their github page:
https://github.com/forrestv/p2pool/graphs

I believe anyone can contribute to the development and if new functionality gets implemented one must just make another pull request. How the contributors get their share of the donations remains unknown to me. I suspect a better idea is to fund individual features to be implemented rather than P2Pool development as a whole.

legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
That is good to know, thank you for your effort.

I would be glad to see a safer distribution of hashrate
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
I could develop the website that allows monitoring P2Pool miners. I would do it in JavaScript totally browser based and it would log the hash rate of the specified receiving address periodically. It could also play music or make bleeps when a payout is made or the hash rate decreases under the preferred threshold. For starters, such functionality would be fair enough, don't you think? Further enhancements such as automated SMS sending and e-mails could be considered later.

Of course, there may be other more talented or enthusiastic developers out there, ready to do the job. All I wanted to say is that we have the potential resources to do it.
legendary
Activity: 1133
Merit: 1163
Imposition of ORder = Escalation of Chaos
Thanks for bringing this to our attention oda.krell.

This is a worthy cause and I would very much like to contribute towards donations for p2pool miners. And the development of the platform as well.

Come to think of it, "voluntary donations by holders of Bitcoin" might become a third monetary incentive for mining besides the block reward and the transaction fees. Of course the transaction fees (in that you can voluntarily specify them) are a form of donations as well, but we are talking about providing a monetary incentive not for mining in general, but for the right kind of mining, right?  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
Hehe, Hyena. You're resourceful, but a bit abrasive, huh?

Anyway, thanks for being the voice of a "majority miner", zimmah. Invaluable input, really.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
well, i'm sorry for not being as good with computers as you, or probably 95% of the forum users here.

But such improvements are the thing i am indeed looking for.

1) Checking up on my miner from a distance, preferably from within a browser plugin or an app.


2) Splitting the income between multiple wallets (for example 49% to wallet A, 49% to wallet B and 2% to wallet C)

If these two options are easily done in P2P (not to many steps to set it up, and not require too much knowledge, or a very, very detailed guide on how to do it) and it only requires setting it up once then i would seriously mine at P2P without problems.

Ok, no problem, I am aware of the fact that I feel no empathy for the non-programmers and thus set too high expectations.

What I see from your suggestions is that P2Pool just needs a GUI.

There should be a website that would allow monitoring P2Pool miners, essentially doing the same thing that my shell script does but in a web browser.

The P2Pool node should also have a GUI that would allow sending mined bitcoins to multiple wallets by using Bitcoin daemon's RPC.

Programming-wise, these are both very trivial tasks.

correct, that would make it useful to me, and hopefully many more miners.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
well, i'm sorry for not being as good with computers as you, or probably 95% of the forum users here.

But such improvements are the thing i am indeed looking for.

1) Checking up on my miner from a distance, preferably from within a browser plugin or an app.


2) Splitting the income between multiple wallets (for example 49% to wallet A, 49% to wallet B and 2% to wallet C)

If these two options are easily done in P2P (not to many steps to set it up, and not require too much knowledge, or a very, very detailed guide on how to do it) and it only requires setting it up once then i would seriously mine at P2P without problems.

Ok, no problem, I am aware of the fact that I feel no empathy for the non-programmers and thus set too high expectations.

What I see from your suggestions is that P2Pool just needs a GUI.

There should be a website that would allow monitoring P2Pool miners, essentially doing the same thing that my shell script does but in a web browser.

The P2Pool node should also have a GUI that would allow sending mined bitcoins to multiple wallets by using Bitcoin daemon's RPC.

Programming-wise, these are both very trivial tasks.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
Well, that is a start, but my miners are in a room no one really ever enters, and i would prefer not having to actually enter the room and look every time if my miner is still running or not. I would prefer being able to see it from a browser plugin (on another computer), or on my phone. Or both.

YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG!

My miner is 20 km from me. I barely never check the host laptop and the miner itself is in a separate room of its own.

The script can run in any computer that has Internet connection and it will produce sound alerts and it displays the hash rate in every 5 minutes. Everything you said is just wrong but I guess it was my fault not to express myself clearly enough.

well, i'm sorry for not being as good with computers as you, or probably 95% of the forum users here.

But such improvements are the thing i am indeed looking for.

1) Checking up on my miner from a distance, preferably from within a browser plugin or an app.


2) Splitting the income between multiple wallets (for example 49% to wallet A, 49% to wallet B and 2% to wallet C)

If these two options are easily done in P2P (not to many steps to set it up, and not require too much knowledge, or a very, very detailed guide on how to do it) and it only requires setting it up once then i would seriously mine at P2P without problems.

donator
Activity: 4760
Merit: 4323
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Just thought I'd mention that NastyFans is working on ways to improve p2pool live earnings statistics, improve the payout system, and implement additional incentives to make it not only a more responsible way to mine, but more profitable as well.

I don't think it needs to be easier to use.  P2Pool is already the easiest pool to use.  You don't even have to sign up.  All you have to do is point your miner to nastyfans.org:9332 and use your Bitcoin address for your username.  Pretty simple.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
Well, that is a start, but my miners are in a room no one really ever enters, and i would prefer not having to actually enter the room and look every time if my miner is still running or not. I would prefer being able to see it from a browser plugin (on another computer), or on my phone. Or both.

YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG!

My miner is 20 km from me. I barely never check the host laptop and the miner itself is in a separate room of its own.

The script can run in any computer that has Internet connection and it will produce sound alerts and it displays the hash rate in every 5 minutes. Everything you said is just wrong but I guess it was my fault not to express myself clearly enough.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
Actually P2Pool mining is really simple because you don't need to register any account anywhere. You can find existing P2pool nodes here:
http://p2pool.hostv.pl/

I use http://pool.fabulouspanda.co.uk:9332/static/ for example.

All one needs to do is to start the miner like that:
./bfgminer -o http://pool.fabulouspanda.co.uk:9332 -u 1DmMArx84zA6fpAsvDzrR1hsjnFgC5h6EK -p whatever
where username is your receiving address and password can be anything.

Also, people who wish to donate to P2P miners can go here:
https://blockchain.info/blocks/P2Pool

and they will see the latest blocks found by P2Pool. Clicking on any of the blocks gives you a list of addresses that participated in finding the block so a donations could be sent to the same addresses.

If anyone is interested in monitoring your P2Pool mining effort, I created this Linux shell script that I can gladly share with you:

Code:
#!/bin/sh

#When hashrate falls below `minimal_hashrate` the alarm goes off.
minimal_hashrate=30

#Only if current time is more than `first_active_hour` the script can raise alarm. This is to be quiet during the night.
first_active_hour=10

#To change the number of idle seconds after checking metrics modify the following variable:
script_frequency=300

#P2Pool:
pool_addr="http://pool.fabulouspanda.co.uk:9332"
btc_addr="1DmMArx84zA6fpAsvDzrR1hsjnFgC5h6EK"

#Helper variables:
last_hash=""
pool_fee=""
first_run="yes"

echo -en "\033]0;ASIC Stats\a"

while :
do
hashrate=`curl -s $pool_addr'/local_stats' | grep -Po '"'$btc_addr'":(.+?),' | tail -1 | cut -d' ' -f 2 | cut -d'.' -f 1`
newest_hash=`curl -s $pool_addr'/recent_blocks' | grep -Po '"hash":(.+?),' | head -1 | cut -d' ' -f 2 | cut -d'"' -f 2`
now=`date`
hour=`date +%H`
orig="$hashrate"
if echo "$hashrate" | egrep -q '^[0-9]+$'; then
    hashrate=$(($hashrate/1000000000))
    printf "%s: Hashrate: %-16s%8s " "$now" "\"$orig\"" "$hashrate GHs"
else
    hashrate=0
    printf "%s:           %24s " "$now" "NO CONNECTION"
fi

if test "$minimal_hashrate" -gt "$hashrate"
then
    printf "(\033[1;31m%s\033[0m)\n" 'FAIL'    
    test "$hour" -gt "$first_active_hour" && (beep -l 350 -f 392 -D 100)
else
    printf "(\033[1;32m%s\033[0m)\n" 'OK'
fi

if [ "$last_hash" != "$newest_hash" ]
then  
    if [ "$first_run" != "yes" ]
    then  
        payout=`curl -s $pool_addr'/current_payouts' | grep -Po '"'$btc_addr'":(.+?),' | cut -d' ' -f 2 | cut -d',' -f 1`    
        pool_fee=`curl -s $pool_addr'/fee'`    
        printf "\033[1;35m%s\033[0m\n" "$newest_hash"
        printf "Payout:       \033[1;33m%46s\033[0m BTC\n" "+$payout"
        printf "Pool fee:     \033[1;31m%46s\033[0m %%\n" "$pool_fee"    
        test "$hour" -gt "$first_active_hour" && (beep -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 112 -n -l 300 -f 126 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 112 -n -l 300 -f 126 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 126 -n -l 300 -f 133 -n -l 600 -f 150 -n -l 300 -f 126 -n -l 300 -f 133 -n -l 600 -f 150 -n -l 150 -f 150 -n -l 150 -f 168 -n -l 150 -f 150 -n -l 150 -f 133 -n -l 300 -f 126 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 150 -f 150 -n -l 150 -f 168 -n -l 150 -f 150 -n -l 150 -f 133 -n -l 300 -f 126 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 75 -n -l 600 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 75 -n -l 600 -f 100)
    else
        printf "\033[1;35m%s\033[0m\n" "$newest_hash"
    fi
    last_hash=$newest_hash    
fi
first_run=""
sleep "$script_frequency"
done

The above script will play a PC speaker melody if the pool finds a block and it will make a single bleep if your miner is not producing enough GHashes per second. the beep command requires the PC speaker to be enabled however, which is another story.

Well, that is a start, but my miners are in a room no one really ever enters, and i would prefer not having to actually enter the room and look every time if my miner is still running or not. I would prefer being able to see it from a browser plugin (on another computer), or on my phone. Or both.

Many of you here discus profitability, while miners obviously care about profit, ease of use is also a very important issue. I can't be the only one who does not want or is even unable to physically check up on their miner on a regular basis. And like I also said before, options like splitting the coins between multiple wallets without having to think about it would also be very handy to have.

Most of the popular mining pools offer many tools and utilities that, as far as i know of, P2P lacks.

I would join P2P pool even if they would not give donations, just to ensure security of the network, but so far only the most popular pools offer the kind of utility i want to have. The popular pools are popular for a reason guys, and that reason is not just less variance and lower fees.

I am perfectly aware of the risk of Ghash being too big, but like i already stated and has been quoted several times, i just want to set up my miner once and forget about it, and as long as i can't do that with P2P, P2P just is not an option no matter what rewards they promise. I have other things to do than worry about my miner.

Of course i'm just one miner out of many but i can't be the only one who thinks like this.

Btw i know how cgminer and such work, (some miners may not know, but you can probably assume most miners know).


I was thinking that eventually bitcoin holders may have to actually mine at a small loss in order to protect their coins. This would then mean bitcoin would be a depreciating asset? Once we see a leveling of the hash rate my hope is mining will return to the beginnings when individuals could run machines at home and collectively "donate" hashes for the collective. As long as enough people did this it would be effective.

that worked when all of the home miners were technologically capable.

Imagine what would happen if literally every home computer would mine.

It would only take 1 zombie botnet to attack the blockchain.

It's not as good an idea as it sounds, you can't expect to educate billions of people.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
Guys?

Did your future hashrate just increase by factor 4? Cheesy

This:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29btmp/peta_will_switch_to_p2pool_after_96_voted_yes/

plus:

http://www.peta-mine.co/stats/

and:

http://p2pool.info/

seems to say that much.


I guess this is a concern:

[...]Petamine were going to trial p2pool, but it looks like they didn't, because they would immediately have had >50% of p2pool's mining power. Things like hybrid nodes would be more useful when there are large mining groups on p2pool, so smaller miners could still turn a coin.

But maybe something that can be fixed after they join?


EDIT: "factor 4" because they would be going from currently 380 TH/s to 1190+380 TH/s.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
Actually P2Pool mining is really simple because you don't need to register any account anywhere. You can find existing P2pool nodes here:
http://p2pool.hostv.pl/

I use http://pool.fabulouspanda.co.uk:9332/static/ for example.


So you're not using your own  full node?

Nope, but from the documents I can see that a node is also really simple to set up. I pay 0.5% fee to the node operator which I don't consider too much. Are you aware of any other advantages that running my own node would give me? I wouldn't be able to accept other miners working under my P2Pool node anyway because I have a dynamic IP address.

I'd say that the main advantage to run your own node is you don't need to trust your node operator. Other than that I see no other pros, modulo fee, since you can't give access to others.
Now that I think about it running a node is a good thing for the btc network in general (the higher the number of nodes the better).
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
Actually P2Pool mining is really simple because you don't need to register any account anywhere. You can find existing P2pool nodes here:
http://p2pool.hostv.pl/

I use http://pool.fabulouspanda.co.uk:9332/static/ for example.


So you're not using your own  full node?

Nope, but from the documents I can see that a node is also really simple to set up. I pay 0.5% fee to the node operator which I don't consider too much. Are you aware of any other advantages that running my own node would give me? I wouldn't be able to accept other miners working under my P2Pool node anyway because I have a dynamic IP address.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
But in the end, it doesn't really matter how many coins you have, the idea would be that if you have a stake in it, you should be motivated out of rational self interest to keep the network decentralized (as much as possible at least). Donating, say, around 0.1% of your BTC worth to a cause like this seems reasonable to me.

So, say if you're sitting on around 100 coins, that means donating 0.1 coins. At a total of around 1000, 1 coin. I'd expect we could get a pretty decent amount of donations together like that, if people are convinced it's a worthy cause.

That all sounds great. I would donate maybe 0.5% - 1% of my stake to some concrete p2pool improvement proposals, that had been suggested (and voted on) by miners and GHash users. I would not donate any directly to miners though as I don't see that being a long term solution.

It probably bears waiting to see about this scalability issue before actually soliciting donations though.

Valid point. On the other hand, as I argued above, there is currently a "bootstrapping" that any smaller pool faces: while the pool is still small, variance is high for participating miners, so they are inclined to join a bigger pool, which in turn is less affected by variance, thus attracting more miners, etc.

That's why I said above, in the *early* phase of supporting p2pool, it might be necessary to counter that variance disincentive by additional donations, so that more miners join p2pool, which in turn will mitigate the problem and will (long term) make donations less important.


EDIT: Latching onto what calian and holliday discussed... is p2pool integration into the reference client, in one slick package, an option? Something the devs are considering? That might gain some support from donators.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
Actually P2Pool mining is really simple because you don't need to register any account anywhere. You can find existing P2pool nodes here:
http://p2pool.hostv.pl/

I use http://pool.fabulouspanda.co.uk:9332/static/ for example.


So you're not using your own  full node?
hero member
Activity: 688
Merit: 500
ヽ( ㅇㅅㅇ)ノ ~!!
But in the end, it doesn't really matter how many coins you have, the idea would be that if you have a stake in it, you should be motivated out of rational self interest to keep the network decentralized (as much as possible at least). Donating, say, around 0.1% of your BTC worth to a cause like this seems reasonable to me.

So, say if you're sitting on around 100 coins, that means donating 0.1 coins. At a total of around 1000, 1 coin. I'd expect we could get a pretty decent amount of donations together like that, if people are convinced it's a worthy cause.

That all sounds great. I would donate maybe 0.5% - 1% of my stake to some concrete p2pool improvement proposals, that had been suggested (and voted on) by miners and GHash users. I would not donate any directly to miners though as I don't see that being a long term solution.

It probably bears waiting to see about this scalability issue before actually soliciting donations though.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1029
excellent thread. I will gladly donate 100mbtc/0.1btc to the effort. I currently mine on eligius but I have 6gh. I do next to nothing, and from what I understand, I'm too small a fish to use p2pool.
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