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Topic: Should we (the investors, I mean) help incentivize p2pool? - page 2. (Read 2813 times)

sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
Decentralize your hashing - p2pool - Norgz Pool
Yes, education on blockchain 'insurance' is key for asset holders. There have been several discussions on reddit about this, and one comment which stood out was that P2Pool was not yet scalable. If a ton of people joined p2pool (like 50% of the network), the sharechain difficulty goes through the roof, and finding a share will become very difficult...so it'll be like solo mining blocks all over again, except slightly easier with lesser reward since it's still split (so still less variance than pure solo mining).

Regarding hashrates, yes you are correct. There is still the problem of p2pool share difficulty getting too high for 'low speed' miners, but the dev (Forrestv) is considering solutions to that, like multiple sharechains, etc.

I'm also thinking about ways to create a hybrid node. A centralized node, if you will, running on the P2Pool network. This will allow me to create services similar to the other centralized pools (whatever people especially like about GHash), while still making them indirectly mine on p2pool. There's still the risk of the hybrid pool growing too large (eg >51% of the sharechain), but that's a serious problem already...Petamine were going to trial p2pool, but it looks like they didn't, because they would immediately have had >50% of p2pool's mining power. Things like hybrid nodes would be more useful when there are large mining groups on p2pool, so smaller miners could still turn a coin.

Thanks for another really interesting post.

Alright, so that's something I didn't know: that p2pool doesn't scale that well yet assuming a big increase in hash rate. Is this solvable, in the near/mid future?
Forrest has been updating the p2pool code and I feel a solution to this may be imminent.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
Yes, education on blockchain 'insurance' is key for asset holders. There have been several discussions on reddit about this, and one comment which stood out was that P2Pool was not yet scalable. If a ton of people joined p2pool (like 50% of the network), the sharechain difficulty goes through the roof, and finding a share will become very difficult...so it'll be like solo mining blocks all over again, except slightly easier with lesser reward since it's still split (so still less variance than pure solo mining).

Regarding hashrates, yes you are correct. There is still the problem of p2pool share difficulty getting too high for 'low speed' miners, but the dev (Forrestv) is considering solutions to that, like multiple sharechains, etc.

I'm also thinking about ways to create a hybrid node. A centralized node, if you will, running on the P2Pool network. This will allow me to create services similar to the other centralized pools (whatever people especially like about GHash), while still making them indirectly mine on p2pool. There's still the risk of the hybrid pool growing too large (eg >51% of the sharechain), but that's a serious problem already...Petamine were going to trial p2pool, but it looks like they didn't, because they would immediately have had >50% of p2pool's mining power. Things like hybrid nodes would be more useful when there are large mining groups on p2pool, so smaller miners could still turn a coin.

Thanks for another really interesting post.

Alright, so that's something I didn't know: that p2pool doesn't scale that well yet assuming a big increase in hash rate. Is this solvable, in the near/mid future?
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1000
HODL OR DIE
I was thinking that eventually bitcoin holders may have to actually mine at a small loss in order to protect their coins. This would then mean bitcoin would be a depreciating asset? Once we see a leveling of the hash rate my hope is mining will return to the beginnings when individuals could run machines at home and collectively "donate" hashes for the collective. As long as enough people did this it would be effective.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
Those already using P2Pool are not necessarily those best suited to suggesting enhancements. The most useful opinions might be from those, like zimmah, who currently use GHash and don't want to switch. They are the target, right?

I'm especially interested in the opinion of larger stakeholders on this matter, i.e. those who hold large positions in BTC. The speculation forum seemed like a good place to get a reaction from them, only, so far nobody picked up that invitation.
Define "large position" Wink

I think the really big holders are too busy sitting in their castles to comment or fund something important like this... pffft, most people are just mindless speculators with little care or understanding of the underlying technology. Tragedy of the commons and all that.
/pessimism


Don't really want to force anyone here to reveal his net worth, it's a tricky subject. So I understand it's better done in a don't ask, don't tell manner, but like I wrote above, I know from the discussions in here that there's a decent number of 100+ BTC holders on this forum, which is what I'd call a large(ish) BTC position, agreed?

But in the end, it doesn't really matter how many coins you have, the idea would be that if you have a stake in it, you should be motivated out of rational self interest to keep the network decentralized (as much as possible at least). Donating, say, around 0.1% of your BTC worth to a cause like this seems reasonable to me.

So, say if you're sitting on around 100 coins, that means donating 0.1 coins. At a total of around 1000, 1 coin. I'd expect we could get a pretty decent amount of donations together like that, if people are convinced it's a worthy cause.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
Decentralize your hashing - p2pool - Norgz Pool
Here is my transaction list for my measly 230gh/s over the last two and a bit days. Hope this inspires some miners to join:

 
 Today 01:35:48  

0.02183437 BTC

 
 2014-06-27 15:06:28 - donation

0.00011201 BTC

 
 2014-06-27 01:18:02

0.02453485 BTC

 
 2014-06-26 19:59:57

0.02434502 BTC


 2014-06-26 15:01:00 - donation

0.00010977
 
 2014-06-26 07:07:09

0.02488561 BTC

 
 2014-06-25 18:42:54

0.01801932 BTC

 
 2014-06-25 15:01:48 - Donation

0.00009016 BTC
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
That's kind of what I'm afraid of... individual donations coming in, but no sustained awareness yet that this should be a thing for everyone who holds a relevant stake in Bitcoin and ever wondered if 51% hashpower in the hands of one conventional pool is maybe not such a great idea.

(EDIT) One other remark: once p2pool gets big enough, variance should be less of an issue than it is now, so donations would be needed only to *sustain* miners staying in p2pool, while currently we need to give extra incentives to them in order for them to *join* the pool (because for reasons of high variance when mining with a low total hashrate, they would possibly better served to join a larger pool). Correct?

Yes, education on blockchain 'insurance' is key for asset holders. There have been several discussions on reddit about this, and one comment which stood out was that P2Pool was not yet scalable. If a ton of people joined p2pool (like 50% of the network), the sharechain difficulty goes through the roof, and finding a share will become very difficult...so it'll be like solo mining blocks all over again, except slightly easier with lesser reward since it's still split (so still less variance than pure solo mining).

Regarding hashrates, yes you are correct. There is still the problem of p2pool share difficulty getting too high for 'low speed' miners, but the dev (Forrestv) is considering solutions to that, like multiple sharechains, etc.

I'm also thinking about ways to create a hybrid node. A centralized node, if you will, running on the P2Pool network. This will allow me to create services similar to the other centralized pools (whatever people especially like about GHash), while still making them indirectly mine on p2pool. There's still the risk of the hybrid pool growing too large (eg >51% of the sharechain), but that's a serious problem already...Petamine were going to trial p2pool, but it looks like they didn't, because they would immediately have had >50% of p2pool's mining power. Things like hybrid nodes would be more useful when there are large mining groups on p2pool, so smaller miners could still turn a coin.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
Decentralize your hashing - p2pool - Norgz Pool
The lead developer showed renewed interest very recently and has become more active on github and the forum. There are some technical issues to sort in regards to scalability and hardware compatibility.
I've done some work on the front end, again in my sig.
You can run a p2pool node on Windows by simply running the executable and pointing your miner at it or just finding a node close by.
It's pretty easy and knowing some decent donations are coming in and understanding variance would make it easier for miners to make the change.
Now for some real work figures:

In the last 2 weeks p2pool hash rate has dropped significantly, from 700th/s to now around 300gh/s, this happened just as the main dev became more active. Since in that same two weeks p2pool only got a block every the days or more I can only assume miners got impatient with the variance and switched pools, big mistake!
In the last 36 hours five blocks were found.
At around 230gh/s I've got around $15/block on those last blocks. Over $60us in payments on only 230gh/s is pretty nice and throughout those two weeks we got a dozen or so donations, each quite small but its a nice little fill in to keep you interested while blocks are not coming in.

If the donations were a little larger, they could certainly help reduce variance and make miners feel better about staying with p2pool during times between blocks.

There is a bounty address setup for the main dev for when he delivers some new code and nodes can donate (turned on by default but often disabled, the last block for example had a 1% donation turned on) so if miners understood the 1% fee and the developer is inspired to spend more time improving code then the system self reciprocates to the dev.
The 1% is turned off to help encourage miners to use p2pool nodes, my node has no fees for example.

hero member
Activity: 688
Merit: 500
ヽ( ㅇㅅㅇ)ノ ~!!
Those already using P2Pool are not necessarily those best suited to suggesting enhancements. The most useful opinions might be from those, like zimmah, who currently use GHash and don't want to switch. They are the target, right?

I'm especially interested in the opinion of larger stakeholders on this matter, i.e. those who hold large positions in BTC. The speculation forum seemed like a good place to get a reaction from them, only, so far nobody picked up that invitation.
Define "large position" Wink

I think the really big holders are too busy sitting in their castles to comment or fund something important like this... pffft, most people are just mindless speculators with little care or understanding of the underlying technology. Tragedy of the commons and all that.
/pessimism
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
It sounds like money needs to be spent to making mining for P2Pool the easiest, slickest, smoothest way to go.

As a long time supporter of P2Pool I will say that this is the most important step.

Imagine if it was integrated into the reference client. Imagine if you could start mining directly to an address you control simply by plugging in your ASIC device and clicking a "start mining" button.

Reference client integration is a nice idea. A GUI wrapper for the miner software would be a cool too. The GUI would automatically connect to a P2Pool for example. It can definitely be done and it would be even more convenient than mining for whatever other pool (mainly because P2Pool does not require any form of user account registration, ever).
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
It sounds like money needs to be spent to making mining for P2Pool the easiest, slickest, smoothest way to go.

As a long time supporter of P2Pool I will say that this is the most important step.

Imagine if it was integrated into the reference client. Imagine if you could start mining directly to an address you control simply by plugging in your ASIC device and clicking a "start mining" button.

Let's say it is (integrated into the reference client -- which wouldn't be that easy to achieve actually, probably a bit of a hot topic to do that). Would that actually help? It was my understanding many miners aren't even using the reference client, so what would the impact be? Correct me please, if I'm wrong.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
Personally i prefer Ghash because they offer a userfriendly website. I can automatically split the income between several wallets for example.

And most mining pools offer apps to check your hasrate on your phone or on a google chrome plugin. So you don't have to check all the time if your miner is still running.

If those things would be created for P2P to make P2P as userfriendly as Ghash than personally i would love to join P2P. But ight now it's just too much of a hassle.

How about listen to the actual miner who commented here? It sounds like money needs to be spent to making mining for P2Pool the easiest, slickest, smoothest way to go. That would suggest to me that donations would be better spent paying developers to implement the kind of interface that miners want. Something that reduces their headaches. It makes sense that large pools would have the resources to provide this kind of thing whereas P2P being a decentralized open source tool probably still requires the command line to get running. What we need is the Ubuntu (company) for P2Pool.

+1million, any donations should go to further development of this P2Pool.

I'm not a miner so no nothing about p2pool and have never used it but typically open source software is ass backwards as fuck to use compared to commercial... Would happily donate some small amount to concrete and well defined enhancement proposals for this p2pool.

This is the initiative that is needed.

- poll miners, why do they prefer GHash, whatever
- distil this into some concrete proposals for improving p2pool (or e.g. creation of additional services/apps for this "monitoring hashrate" or w/e)
- crowd fund these

[and also find some qualified bitcoin devs / community members who can say that P2Pool is actually the solution here, because I have no freaking idea!]

P.S., why isn't this in the main Bitcoin Discussion forum? It needs more attention.

I'd welcome opening this discussion on the main discussion forum, but the speculation subforum is pretty big as well, and as I hinted at in the title, I'm especially interested in the opinion of larger stakeholders on this matter, i.e. those who hold large positions in BTC. The speculation forum seemed like a good place to get a reaction from them, only, so far nobody picked up that invitation.
hero member
Activity: 688
Merit: 500
ヽ( ㅇㅅㅇ)ノ ~!!
Personally i prefer Ghash because they offer a userfriendly website. I can automatically split the income between several wallets for example.

And most mining pools offer apps to check your hasrate on your phone or on a google chrome plugin. So you don't have to check all the time if your miner is still running.

If those things would be created for P2P to make P2P as userfriendly as Ghash than personally i would love to join P2P. But ight now it's just too much of a hassle.

How about listen to the actual miner who commented here? It sounds like money needs to be spent to making mining for P2Pool the easiest, slickest, smoothest way to go. That would suggest to me that donations would be better spent paying developers to implement the kind of interface that miners want. Something that reduces their headaches. It makes sense that large pools would have the resources to provide this kind of thing whereas P2P being a decentralized open source tool probably still requires the command line to get running. What we need is the Ubuntu (company) for P2Pool.

+1million, any donations should go to further development of this P2Pool.

I'm not a miner so no nothing about p2pool and have never used it but typically open source software is ass backwards as fuck to use compared to commercial... Would happily donate some small amount to concrete and well defined enhancement proposals for this p2pool.

This is the initiative that is needed.

- poll miners, why do they prefer GHash, whatever
- distil this into some concrete proposals for improving p2pool (or e.g. creation of additional services/apps for this "monitoring hashrate" or w/e)
- crowd fund these

[and also find some qualified bitcoin devs / community members who can say that P2Pool is actually the solution here, because I have no freaking idea!]

P.S., why isn't this in the main Bitcoin Discussion forum? It needs more attention.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
Personally i prefer Ghash because they offer a userfriendly website. I can automatically split the income between several wallets for example.

And most mining pools offer apps to check your hasrate on your phone or on a google chrome plugin. So you don't have to check all the time if your miner is still running.

If those things would be created for P2P to make P2P as userfriendly as Ghash than personally i would love to join P2P. But ight now it's just too much of a hassle.

How about listen to the actual miner who commented here? It sounds like money needs to be spent to making mining for P2Pool the easiest, slickest, smoothest way to go. That would suggest to me that donations would be better spent paying developers to implement the kind of interface that miners want. Something that reduces their headaches. It makes sense that large pools would have the resources to provide this kind of thing whereas P2P being a decentralized open source tool probably still requires the command line to get running. What we need is the Ubuntu (company) for P2Pool.

Presumably whoever created P2Pool had a motivation that also encompasses seeing miners actually adopt it.  If so, that motivation should translate into development on such features if they believe these features are needed to further adoption of P2Pool.
sr. member
Activity: 354
Merit: 250
Personally i prefer Ghash because they offer a userfriendly website. I can automatically split the income between several wallets for example.

And most mining pools offer apps to check your hasrate on your phone or on a google chrome plugin. So you don't have to check all the time if your miner is still running.

If those things would be created for P2P to make P2P as userfriendly as Ghash than personally i would love to join P2P. But ight now it's just too much of a hassle.

How about listen to the actual miner who commented here? It sounds like money needs to be spent to making mining for P2Pool the easiest, slickest, smoothest way to go. That would suggest to me that donations would be better spent paying developers to implement the kind of interface that miners want. Something that reduces their headaches. It makes sense that large pools would have the resources to provide this kind of thing whereas P2P being a decentralized open source tool probably still requires the command line to get running. What we need is the Ubuntu (company) for P2Pool.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
EDIT: just saw that this month, you got 2.5 BTC. That's not much. Any idea what the total donations to p2pool are per month, on average?

I set up http://blisterpool.com/p2pdonate about 3 weeks ago, at the bequest of a business owner who wanted an easy way to donate to "decentralized miners". His catch cry was "1% for decentralization", hoping to inspire other business owners to donate 1% of their weekly profits to something like p2pool so there was more incentive to mine on it.

In my experience with p2pool (4-5 months), I've not seen a single donation. I don't know how much as gone through prior to that.

After presenting the tool, there was a flurry of donations totally about 2.5 btc so far (across 43 donations, to lots of miners), with the highest being 1.0 btc. Donations have died off somewhat the last week, but they still come in every now and then. I also posted the source on github, and noticed maybe half a dozen or so donations that didn't go through my tool. I'd estimate it was around 0.5 btc through those.

I do think that investors and businesses have a vested interest in regularly donating to p2pool mining...if the blockchain fails, all their assets fail with it. 1% for decentralization is a great idea, and if enough people start thinking about it, p2pool should far out pay any other pool, and that's all the real incentive miners need.

Thanks. Very interesting

That's kind of what I'm afraid of... individual donations coming in, but no sustained awareness yet that this should be a thing for everyone who holds a relevant stake in Bitcoin and ever wondered if 51% hashpower in the hands of one conventional pool is maybe not such a great idea.

(EDIT) One other remark: once p2pool gets big enough, variance should be less of an issue than it is now, so donations would be needed only to *sustain* miners staying in p2pool, while currently we need to give extra incentives to them in order for them to *join* the pool (because for reasons of high variance when mining with a low total hashrate, they would possibly better served to join a larger pool). Correct?


Donation drive / request for comments from investors still continuing :D My own pledge (1 btc) still stands.
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
EDIT: just saw that this month, you got 2.5 BTC. That's not much. Any idea what the total donations to p2pool are per month, on average?

I set up http://blisterpool.com/p2pdonate about 3 weeks ago, at the bequest of a business owner who wanted an easy way to donate to "decentralized miners". His catch cry was "1% for decentralization", hoping to inspire other business owners to donate 1% of their weekly profits to something like p2pool so there was more incentive to mine on it.

In my experience with p2pool (4-5 months), I've not seen a single donation. I don't know how much as gone through prior to that.

After presenting the tool, there was a flurry of donations totally about 2.5 btc so far (across 43 donations, to lots of miners), with the highest being 1.0 btc. Donations have died off somewhat the last week, but they still come in every now and then. I also posted the source on github, and noticed maybe half a dozen or so donations that didn't go through my tool. I'd estimate it was around 0.5 btc through those.

I do think that investors and businesses have a vested interest in regularly donating to p2pool mining...if the blockchain fails, all their assets fail with it. 1% for decentralization is a great idea, and if enough people start thinking about it, p2pool should far out pay any other pool, and that's all the real incentive miners need.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
Actually P2Pool mining is really simple because you don't need to register any account anywhere. You can find existing P2pool nodes here:
http://p2pool.hostv.pl/

I use http://pool.fabulouspanda.co.uk:9332/static/ for example.

All one needs to do is to start the miner like that:
./bfgminer -o http://pool.fabulouspanda.co.uk:9332 -u 1DmMArx84zA6fpAsvDzrR1hsjnFgC5h6EK -p whatever
where username is your receiving address and password can be anything.

Also, people who wish to donate to P2P miners can go here:
https://blockchain.info/blocks/P2Pool

and they will see the latest blocks found by P2Pool. Clicking on any of the blocks gives you a list of addresses that participated in finding the block so a donations could be sent to the same addresses.

If anyone is interested in monitoring your P2Pool mining effort, I created this Linux shell script that I can gladly share with you:

Code:
#!/bin/sh

#When hashrate falls below `minimal_hashrate` the alarm goes off.
minimal_hashrate=30

#Only if current time is more than `first_active_hour` the script can raise alarm. This is to be quiet during the night.
first_active_hour=10

#To change the number of idle seconds after checking metrics modify the following variable:
script_frequency=300

#P2Pool:
pool_addr="http://pool.fabulouspanda.co.uk:9332"
btc_addr="1DmMArx84zA6fpAsvDzrR1hsjnFgC5h6EK"

#Helper variables:
last_hash=""
pool_fee=""
first_run="yes"

echo -en "\033]0;ASIC Stats\a"

while :
do
hashrate=`curl -s $pool_addr'/local_stats' | grep -Po '"'$btc_addr'":(.+?),' | tail -1 | cut -d' ' -f 2 | cut -d'.' -f 1`
newest_hash=`curl -s $pool_addr'/recent_blocks' | grep -Po '"hash":(.+?),' | head -1 | cut -d' ' -f 2 | cut -d'"' -f 2`
now=`date`
hour=`date +%H`
orig="$hashrate"
if echo "$hashrate" | egrep -q '^[0-9]+$'; then
    hashrate=$(($hashrate/1000000000))
    printf "%s: Hashrate: %-16s%8s " "$now" "\"$orig\"" "$hashrate GHs"
else
    hashrate=0
    printf "%s:           %24s " "$now" "NO CONNECTION"
fi

if test "$minimal_hashrate" -gt "$hashrate"
then
    printf "(\033[1;31m%s\033[0m)\n" 'FAIL'   
    test "$hour" -gt "$first_active_hour" && (beep -l 350 -f 392 -D 100)
else
    printf "(\033[1;32m%s\033[0m)\n" 'OK'
fi

if [ "$last_hash" != "$newest_hash" ]
then   
    if [ "$first_run" != "yes" ]
    then   
        payout=`curl -s $pool_addr'/current_payouts' | grep -Po '"'$btc_addr'":(.+?),' | cut -d' ' -f 2 | cut -d',' -f 1`   
        pool_fee=`curl -s $pool_addr'/fee'`   
        printf "\033[1;35m%s\033[0m\n" "$newest_hash"
        printf "Payout:       \033[1;33m%46s\033[0m BTC\n" "+$payout"
        printf "Pool fee:     \033[1;31m%46s\033[0m %%\n" "$pool_fee"   
        test "$hour" -gt "$first_active_hour" && (beep -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 112 -n -l 300 -f 126 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 112 -n -l 300 -f 126 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 126 -n -l 300 -f 133 -n -l 600 -f 150 -n -l 300 -f 126 -n -l 300 -f 133 -n -l 600 -f 150 -n -l 150 -f 150 -n -l 150 -f 168 -n -l 150 -f 150 -n -l 150 -f 133 -n -l 300 -f 126 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 150 -f 150 -n -l 150 -f 168 -n -l 150 -f 150 -n -l 150 -f 133 -n -l 300 -f 126 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 75 -n -l 600 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 100 -n -l 300 -f 75 -n -l 600 -f 100)
    else
        printf "\033[1;35m%s\033[0m\n" "$newest_hash"
    fi
    last_hash=$newest_hash   
fi
first_run=""
sleep "$script_frequency"
done

The above script will play a PC speaker melody if the pool finds a block and it will make a single bleep if your miner is not producing enough GHashes per second. the beep command requires the PC speaker to be enabled however, which is another story.
legendary
Activity: 4200
Merit: 4887
You're never too old to think young.
There seem to be reasons why miners don't use p2pool more often yet.

There are probably many reasons. Mine is laziness.

I used the Easy Miner software that came with my BFL rig and it had single-click options for only Eclipse and Eligius.

I chose the latter.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
I've been using p2pool for 6 months now and interestingly someone keeps sending me additional bonuses to my mining address:

Status: 84 confirmations
Date: 27/06/2014 08:06
From: unknown
To: 1DmMArx84zA6fpAsvDzrR1hsjnFgC5h6EK (own address, label: Mining_06_2014)
Credit: 0.00002588 BTC
Net amount: +0.00002588 BTC
Transaction ID: b11fd4e62df27c5ddd71c139603eed8006bfa298dced10632b5dd3281883055a-000

10 such transactions this month ~0.00025000 Cheesy not much but I appreciate the support

Nice Smiley

But that's exactly why I'd like to see the effort a bit more advertised, and perhaps bundled.

More exposure means more donations are coming in, means miners become more aware of the incentives, means donators see their donation have an effect, etc.

I'd hope to get some positive feedback loop going here...

To get this started, I'll pledge contributing 1 btc to this effort (EDIT: to be clear, not your personally Cheesy I meant as a donation to an address as described in my OP). But I'm still waiting for any non-miners to say what they think of this, and whether they care to make an effort as well (or maybe say that they did already).
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
I've been using p2pool for 6 months now and interestingly someone keeps sending me additional bonuses to my mining address:

Status: 84 confirmations
Date: 27/06/2014 08:06
From: unknown
To: 1DmMArx84zA6fpAsvDzrR1hsjnFgC5h6EK (own address, label: Mining_06_2014)
Credit: 0.00002588 BTC
Net amount: +0.00002588 BTC
Transaction ID: b11fd4e62df27c5ddd71c139603eed8006bfa298dced10632b5dd3281883055a-000

10 such transactions this month ~0.00025000 Cheesy not much but I appreciate the support
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