Topic: Simple and undeniable proof that Bitcoin is a scam - page 2. (Read 23781 times)
You've choosen a really hyping title ha
As a lot of people said before me, money in general is a scam. We print papers and agree they have x value. They don't have it inherently.
Once upon a time, a country could print money only if it had gold to back it up. Now that's not true anymore, so goverments (actually the private banks that print money for them) make money appear from thin air.
Once upon a time, a country could print money only if it had gold to back it up. Now that's not true anymore, so goverments (actually the private banks that print money for them) make money appear from thin air.
NICE FUD POST XD XD XD get a life kay?
I am still waiting for your proof? Why are you even here? Spamming up the forum your complete and utter shit. Do you even know what you are talking about or did you just copy paste this to trigger people?
Nothing you said makes any sense and clearly have no understanding of how trade worls and why we use currrency. I suggest you gain a basical understanding of the economy.
Why are you here?
Well I have a house full of stuff I bought with this so called "scam" I also have work because of it.
Does it much more better if you and your folks leave this market and find your life outside this community?we are all free choose which way to go and we fin bitcoin as valid.so if in your part that this is scam the free to go and let us stay here
Lol ikr. The person is clearly a moron xD
I am still waiting for your proof? Why are you even here? Spamming up the forum your complete and utter shit. Do you even know what you are talking about or did you just copy paste this to trigger people?
Nothing you said makes any sense and clearly have no understanding of how trade worls and why we use currrency. I suggest you gain a basical understanding of the economy.
You are correct
The problem is that many Bitcoin "investors" in here are either too stupid to understand they have been scammed, or are too ashamed to admit it.
Instead, like a sultry 4-year old, they stomp their feet and cry "FUD" and "Buy the dip" and "HODL"
The problem is that many Bitcoin "investors" in here are either too stupid to understand they have been scammed, or are too ashamed to admit it.
Instead, like a sultry 4-year old, they stomp their feet and cry "FUD" and "Buy the dip" and "HODL"
Why are you here?
Well I have a house full of stuff I bought with this so called "scam" I also have work because of it.
You are correct
The problem is that many Bitcoin "investors" in here are either too stupid to understand they have been scammed, or are too ashamed to admit it.
Instead, like a sultry 4-year old, they stomp their feet and cry "FUD" and "Buy the dip" and "HODL"
So why still in here?whats the purpose of you and OP being in cryptocurrency if the legitimacy of the first and pioneer crypto coin(in which Bitcoin)is a scam?The problem is that many Bitcoin "investors" in here are either too stupid to understand they have been scammed, or are too ashamed to admit it.
Instead, like a sultry 4-year old, they stomp their feet and cry "FUD" and "Buy the dip" and "HODL"
Does it much more better if you and your folks leave this market and find your life outside this community?we are all free choose which way to go and we fin bitcoin as valid.so if in your part that this is scam the free to go and let us stay here
Lol ikr. The person is clearly a moron xD
You are correct
The problem is that many Bitcoin "investors" in here are either too stupid to understand they have been scammed, or are too ashamed to admit it.
Instead, like a sultry 4-year old, they stomp their feet and cry "FUD" and "Buy the dip" and "HODL"
So why still in here?whats the purpose of you and OP being in cryptocurrency if the legitimacy of the first and pioneer crypto coin(in which Bitcoin)is a scam?The problem is that many Bitcoin "investors" in here are either too stupid to understand they have been scammed, or are too ashamed to admit it.
Instead, like a sultry 4-year old, they stomp their feet and cry "FUD" and "Buy the dip" and "HODL"
Does it much more better if you and your folks leave this market and find your life outside this community?we are all free choose which way to go and we fin bitcoin as valid.so if in your part that this is scam the free to go and let us stay here
If BTC is scam, i believe everything is scam, GOLD, USD, all currency.
The value of USD back years and what it can purchase back years is nothing to compare this era. Everyday, all currency depreciate and things goes higher than expected and more money required to purchase stuff. Everything is scam.
The value of USD back years and what it can purchase back years is nothing to compare this era. Everyday, all currency depreciate and things goes higher than expected and more money required to purchase stuff. Everything is scam.
There is one simple and quick way to determine that Bitcoin is scam, and that is: market price evaluation. In the case of legitimate market instruments, one can easily evaluate whether they are overpriced or underpriced in the market. However, in the case of Bitcoin this is impossible.
Examples:
If a bond with a face value of 1,000 dollars, a coupon of 5% and maturity in 2 years, is priced at 500 we immediately know it is underpriced. If priced at 2,000, we know it is overpriced. If an egg is priced the same as pizza we immediately know it is overpriced because these items are used for satisfying human needs and we empirically know that the utilization capacity of egg is lower that that of pizza. If a guy was granted a loan in the amount of 1000 units of fiat money and used only his Dacia Logan as collateral, but then he manages to buy a brand-new Bugatti Veyron for that money, we immediately know that one unit of his money was overpriced because the utilization capacity of Dacia Logan is lower than that of Bugatti Veyron. And finally, if the book value of a stock is 50 dollars we know that if it is priced at 10 it is underpriced, if priced at 1,000 it is overpriced.
As we can see, in all these examples we have objective, neutral and price independent factors that set up the level for determining whether something is overpriced or underpriced.
How can we do that for Bitcoin? What objective measurements set up the above mentioned level? How would we know if Bitcoin is underpriced or overpriced? Well, it is impossible to know this. Bitcoin is not a company, so it cannot be evaluated through book value or earnings. It is not a debt asset like bonds or fiat currencies, so it cannot be evaluated through face value or collateral. Bitcoin is not good or service, so it cannot be evaluated through utilization capacity. In short, it is impossible in principle to know whether Bitcoin is overpriced or underpriced. And that simply confirms the fact that there is nothing behind Bitcoin. There is no underlying value for evaluating the investment into Bitcoin.
This can be best seen through the comparison with fiat. Although, at first sight, it seems that fiat currencies have no underlying value, this is not true. Why? Well, because today's dollars or euros are debt based assets, i.e. they are products designed for people who want to consume goods and services today and return them in the future. These people are called borrowers. When the banks grant them loans, new dollars or euros are put into cirtualtion, which are then used for access to the pool of goods and services that gets filled via economic activity of the general population. But since borrowers have to repay their debt with salaries they received for their economic activity - for their contribution to that pool of goods and services, this reduces their purchasing power, i.e. access to the pool. In this way they return goods and services back to the general population. All this is backed by collateral, and in case of borrowers default, their land, cars, houses and other property will end up in the pool of goods and services for the general population to buy with fiat that borrowers put into circulation. Now, are miners - those who put bitcoin into circulation, and in that way also receive goods and services from the general population, obligated to return goods and services back to the general population? No , they are not. Is bitcoin backed by land, cars, houses and other property of Bitcoin miners? Obviously it is not. So fiat currencies are debt assets backed by collateral and this is their underlying value. Bitcoin on the other hand has no such value, and it is a scam - fake money/asset, designed to extract goods and services from the general population.
That is why one can invest into Bitcoin only on the basis of guesses, opinions, beliefs, or conjectures about its future value. These are then spread through advertisements and propaganda to attract new investors. And this is exactly how investment scams operate - in the absence of underlying value, all kinds of manipulative tactics are used to attract new investors.
Bitcoin is therefore a classical investment scam. It's just that it's well masked as a market instrument.
Examples:
If a bond with a face value of 1,000 dollars, a coupon of 5% and maturity in 2 years, is priced at 500 we immediately know it is underpriced. If priced at 2,000, we know it is overpriced. If an egg is priced the same as pizza we immediately know it is overpriced because these items are used for satisfying human needs and we empirically know that the utilization capacity of egg is lower that that of pizza. If a guy was granted a loan in the amount of 1000 units of fiat money and used only his Dacia Logan as collateral, but then he manages to buy a brand-new Bugatti Veyron for that money, we immediately know that one unit of his money was overpriced because the utilization capacity of Dacia Logan is lower than that of Bugatti Veyron. And finally, if the book value of a stock is 50 dollars we know that if it is priced at 10 it is underpriced, if priced at 1,000 it is overpriced.
As we can see, in all these examples we have objective, neutral and price independent factors that set up the level for determining whether something is overpriced or underpriced.
How can we do that for Bitcoin? What objective measurements set up the above mentioned level? How would we know if Bitcoin is underpriced or overpriced? Well, it is impossible to know this. Bitcoin is not a company, so it cannot be evaluated through book value or earnings. It is not a debt asset like bonds or fiat currencies, so it cannot be evaluated through face value or collateral. Bitcoin is not good or service, so it cannot be evaluated through utilization capacity. In short, it is impossible in principle to know whether Bitcoin is overpriced or underpriced. And that simply confirms the fact that there is nothing behind Bitcoin. There is no underlying value for evaluating the investment into Bitcoin.
This can be best seen through the comparison with fiat. Although, at first sight, it seems that fiat currencies have no underlying value, this is not true. Why? Well, because today's dollars or euros are debt based assets, i.e. they are products designed for people who want to consume goods and services today and return them in the future. These people are called borrowers. When the banks grant them loans, new dollars or euros are put into cirtualtion, which are then used for access to the pool of goods and services that gets filled via economic activity of the general population. But since borrowers have to repay their debt with salaries they received for their economic activity - for their contribution to that pool of goods and services, this reduces their purchasing power, i.e. access to the pool. In this way they return goods and services back to the general population. All this is backed by collateral, and in case of borrowers default, their land, cars, houses and other property will end up in the pool of goods and services for the general population to buy with fiat that borrowers put into circulation. Now, are miners - those who put bitcoin into circulation, and in that way also receive goods and services from the general population, obligated to return goods and services back to the general population? No , they are not. Is bitcoin backed by land, cars, houses and other property of Bitcoin miners? Obviously it is not. So fiat currencies are debt assets backed by collateral and this is their underlying value. Bitcoin on the other hand has no such value, and it is a scam - fake money/asset, designed to extract goods and services from the general population.
That is why one can invest into Bitcoin only on the basis of guesses, opinions, beliefs, or conjectures about its future value. These are then spread through advertisements and propaganda to attract new investors. And this is exactly how investment scams operate - in the absence of underlying value, all kinds of manipulative tactics are used to attract new investors.
Bitcoin is therefore a classical investment scam. It's just that it's well masked as a market instrument.
The statement is somehow misleading and might give people the idea to stop supporting Bitcoin. Some users have already used Bitcoin as their front on their Business to give people hope because if they are only given the Good Side of Bitcoin, then people will already believe it. Some investors do not have enough knowledge to know what is true about Bitcoin. If you are defaming Bitcoin and telling people that it is an scam, then why do you keep using it and why the effort to defame it? Can you gain something from it? Everybody here in the forum must have gained something from Bitcoin not just Financially but also the Knowledge it gave us about Blockchain Technology.
Your article is great and detailed, your opinion has been discussed from many previous articles, but in my personal opinion Bitcoin is the currency that holds the virtual currency market.
Like gold, silver and diamonds, Bitcoin has no real value. Its value depends on rarity as well as depending on the ability to hold the market so it has a high price when converted into currency. You know, our market will grow in the direction of cash removal and replacement with virtual money, so the value of virtual money has been determined to be converted from cash. That's why high-value Bitcoin is not so strange because it is a potential currency.
Like gold, silver and diamonds, Bitcoin has no real value. Its value depends on rarity as well as depending on the ability to hold the market so it has a high price when converted into currency. You know, our market will grow in the direction of cash removal and replacement with virtual money, so the value of virtual money has been determined to be converted from cash. That's why high-value Bitcoin is not so strange because it is a potential currency.
Bollocks.
'Scam' means a dishonest rip-off.
There is no dishonesty in BTC, and no-one is being ripped off.
'Scam' means a dishonest rip-off.
There is no dishonesty in BTC, and no-one is being ripped off.
I think everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. There's no way bitcoin can be scam because what bitcoin is marvelously doing in cryptocurrency is really great. There are times coins that are created into the system tend to be scam but that shouldn't be applied to bitcoin. Bitcoin will forever survive.
Bitcoin now accepted:
Cheap air
Expedia
Microsoft
Wikipedia
Overstock.com
Tiger direct.com
KFC
Subway Subs
Name cheap
Playboy
A.T.&T.
Starbucks
Hotels
You can buy gifts cards for
Amazon.com
K-mart
Home depot and hundreds of others business.
Video games
And now so many online stores and business from newspapers to charities, to real estate, to shop keepers restaurants, and growing...
https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/who-accepts/
Cheap air
Expedia
Microsoft
Wikipedia
Overstock.com
Tiger direct.com
KFC
Subway Subs
Name cheap
Playboy
A.T.&T.
Starbucks
Hotels
You can buy gifts cards for
Amazon.com
K-mart
Home depot and hundreds of others business.
Video games
And now so many online stores and business from newspapers to charities, to real estate, to shop keepers restaurants, and growing...
https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/who-accepts/
As an addendum to this, if you are buying a gift card at less than cost price, then you are almost certainly buying a gift card which has been stolen, or bought with stolen ("carded") credit card details. If this gift card is reported as being stolen or fraudulent obtained, and you use it, you will obviously lose the value as the card, and also run the risk of losing your account. With Amazon this can also mean a permanent blacklist of your address and other accounts details (email, credit card number, etc.)
If you are going to trade bitcoins for gift cards, best to stick to a big retailer such as Bitrefill.
If you are going to trade bitcoins for gift cards, best to stick to a big retailer such as Bitrefill.
...Although, I've seen even most trusted users turning into scammers, ...
- By either giving you a used gift card number
- Or giving you a gift card worth less than what's promised
- Worst would be when they leave you without giving anything to you and just run away with your BTC,
And as you know, BTC is irreversible so you can't even claim anything back. So, be very much aware of the purchases you make and always look for a very trustworthy guy to purchase such things. I won't advice about any escrow because my experience says that nobody will accept to become an escrow for such deals due to the fact that they can't check the gift card for you and they won't bet their dignity for some bucks where you may come up and say that the escrow cheated you by redeeming the code himself.
Since I put buying gift cards with btc as partial proof its not a scam, I would hate for anyone to get scammed by buying gift cards. - By either giving you a used gift card number
- Or giving you a gift card worth less than what's promised
- Worst would be when they leave you without giving anything to you and just run away with your BTC,
And as you know, BTC is irreversible so you can't even claim anything back. So, be very much aware of the purchases you make and always look for a very trustworthy guy to purchase such things. I won't advice about any escrow because my experience says that nobody will accept to become an escrow for such deals due to the fact that they can't check the gift card for you and they won't bet their dignity for some bucks where you may come up and say that the escrow cheated you by redeeming the code himself.
So I am including some information brought up by other members to beware of buying gift cards and only buy from sites that are more reliable. One is Bitrefill.
There are infinite ways to get scammed, unfortunately.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Look at all the people who think that XRP, BCH, PAX, etc. are the future of crypto. LOL.
Mining has no relevance to the value of Bitcoin in my opinion. All of the Bitcoin that will ever exist have already been created.
You sure about that?
Sorry guys, but I haven't read all of the replies, but I would like to make a couple of comments.
Most financial instruments are scam(ish) designed for the benefit of the bankers, and not for the retail investors.
Mining has no relevance to the value of Bitcoin in my opinion. All of the Bitcoin that will ever exist have already been created. Mining for new blocks is relevant to the support of the coin transfer and registration infrastructure only. Bitcoin will continue after the last mining reward has been allocated.
The value of an item is determined by market forces ultimately, and this is why a wooden table constructed by me is worth less than a table constructed by a professional carpenter.
The creation of a cryptographic proof of work has added a new category to the range of virtual assets. Bitcoin is one of only a few coins that really do have a value as a virtual asset.
Most financial instruments are scam(ish) designed for the benefit of the bankers, and not for the retail investors.
Mining has no relevance to the value of Bitcoin in my opinion. All of the Bitcoin that will ever exist have already been created. Mining for new blocks is relevant to the support of the coin transfer and registration infrastructure only. Bitcoin will continue after the last mining reward has been allocated.
The value of an item is determined by market forces ultimately, and this is why a wooden table constructed by me is worth less than a table constructed by a professional carpenter.
The creation of a cryptographic proof of work has added a new category to the range of virtual assets. Bitcoin is one of only a few coins that really do have a value as a virtual asset.
I wouldn't say btc is a scam but highly manipulated yes, someone that bought btc at $1000 won't see it from your own perspective, even though it is not very clear what determines the price of btc when it increases so much within a short period and then slow down or go way below, still can not regard it as scam.
Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are here to stay. Money, any form of money is based on trust and Bitcoin's trust is growing by leaps and bounds, all the time.
This is just a partial list.
Bitcoin now accepted:
Cheap air
Expedia
Microsoft
Wikipedia
Overstock.com
Tiger direct.com
KFC
Subway Subs
Name cheap
Playboy
A.T.&T.
Starbucks
Hotels
You can buy gifts cards for
Amazon.com
K-mart
Home depot and hundreds of others business.
Video games
And now so many online stores and business from newspapers to charities, to real estate, to shop keepers restaurants, and growing...
https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/who-accepts/
The fear is there because it is unregulated by the government. But most of this fear is from the government itself, and their propaganda.
According to different reports you would have a hard time getting a government job, or even passing a security clearance if you own a cryptocurrency account.
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/bitcoin-a-shadowy-realm-as-us-weighs-security-clearances-1.529596
The governments are going to hold put as long as possible on legitimizing bitcoin and cryptocurrencies but they already have a foothold worldwide. It may change an dgo up and down but it's not going away..and has as much chance as being stable as any other money, because people and companies are putting their trust in it.
As far as being a scam and anybody's
brother's losing his life savings, or anybody at all and losing it...that is tragic! But hardly because it is a scam.
It's from bad luck, poor trimming, and bad judgment. Who would put their family at risk but gamblers? And you don't need bitcoin for that. Anybody can gamble and lose any kind of money.
This is just a partial list.
Bitcoin now accepted:
Cheap air
Expedia
Microsoft
Wikipedia
Overstock.com
Tiger direct.com
KFC
Subway Subs
Name cheap
Playboy
A.T.&T.
Starbucks
Hotels
You can buy gifts cards for
Amazon.com
K-mart
Home depot and hundreds of others business.
Video games
And now so many online stores and business from newspapers to charities, to real estate, to shop keepers restaurants, and growing...
https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/who-accepts/
The fear is there because it is unregulated by the government. But most of this fear is from the government itself, and their propaganda.
According to different reports you would have a hard time getting a government job, or even passing a security clearance if you own a cryptocurrency account.
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/bitcoin-a-shadowy-realm-as-us-weighs-security-clearances-1.529596
The governments are going to hold put as long as possible on legitimizing bitcoin and cryptocurrencies but they already have a foothold worldwide. It may change an dgo up and down but it's not going away..and has as much chance as being stable as any other money, because people and companies are putting their trust in it.
As far as being a scam and anybody's
brother's losing his life savings, or anybody at all and losing it...that is tragic! But hardly because it is a scam.
It's from bad luck, poor trimming, and bad judgment. Who would put their family at risk but gamblers? And you don't need bitcoin for that. Anybody can gamble and lose any kind of money.
Do you think banks are always the biggest trap in the world? Altcoins are headquartered and officially operated. Why be scared and worried that it is a scam? You can see that the way and operation of Crypto are the same, trading activities depend on trading. I believe Bitcoin is not a scam.
Well the so called "proofs" Can be seen in a lot of different perspectives. And people who against bitcoin may very well find a lot of these to draw others away from btc. But people who have been dealing with bitcoin for a long time now know that it's anything but a scam
It depends upon situation how to transact with the bitcoin holder, and if you want a high price or negotiable price so be it buy if you want and make it a profitable. In that case you are the one how to hold your money how to use it and if bitcoin scam you blame your self because you chose to.
OP's long-winded post does not constitute "proof" of anything.
If you buy bitcoin just to HODL it and hope for a miracle, well, that's your decision. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy bitcoin. If you buy bitcoin to use it for what it was intended: an easy way to move currency on the internet and across borders, then you're not losing anything except from purchase and transaction fees.
I use BTC just about every day, for purchases, to send money to people, to buy other coins, to buy phone data, and then for recreational stuff like sports gambling. There's no authority telling me I should or have to buy bitcoin; I do it out of my own free will, just like everybody else.
Edit: I just saw this topic was created on Dec 3rd.
mining cost equilibrium is the bottom line value
its its cheaper to mine then buy people mine if its cheaper to buy than mine people buy.
so look for the most effiecient mining cost and you learn the bottom line mining cost which miners wont sell below
you soon learn the number of times the price went below bottomline mining costs ovr many years is negligable because people are not fooilish
Still feel the same way franky?
This theory is now officially out the window. Most miners are now mining at a loss.
If you buy bitcoin just to HODL it and hope for a miracle, well, that's your decision. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy bitcoin. If you buy bitcoin to use it for what it was intended: an easy way to move currency on the internet and across borders, then you're not losing anything except from purchase and transaction fees.
I use BTC just about every day, for purchases, to send money to people, to buy other coins, to buy phone data, and then for recreational stuff like sports gambling. There's no authority telling me I should or have to buy bitcoin; I do it out of my own free will, just like everybody else.
Edit: I just saw this topic was created on Dec 3rd.
How can we do that for Bitcoin?
mining cost equilibrium is the bottom line value
its its cheaper to mine then buy people mine if its cheaper to buy than mine people buy.
so look for the most effiecient mining cost and you learn the bottom line mining cost which miners wont sell below
you soon learn the number of times the price went below bottomline mining costs ovr many years is negligable because people are not fooilish
Still feel the same way franky?
This theory is now officially out the window. Most miners are now mining at a loss.
I feel that this topic is published and maintained with a single purpose: - find the idiots who will now sell their BTC, at these prices.
No, I am referring to the fact that for every dollar that is in circulation, there is a borrower who was issued a loan and used loan created dollars to get(borrow) goods and services from the general population. For that reason he is legally obligated - by the loan contract (backed by collateral), to return dollars back to the issuer (bank), and in the process have less purchasing power for goods and services. That is how he "returns" borrowed goods and services back to the general population. On the other hand, bitcoin miner used bitcoins to extract dollars, goods and services from the general population, but unlike borrower, he has no obligation to return goods and services back to the general population. Thus, unlike Dollar, Bitcoin is not debt instrument that reduces purchasing power of borrowers through the banking system. Hence, in the first instance we have: 'borrowing goods and services from the general population - returning goods and services back to the general population', which is legitimate. In the second instance we have "extracting goods and services from the general population", which is a scam.
So your objection to Bitcoin is that it doesn't follow socialist style flow of funds and instead follows capitalist flow of funds?
Using this logic then paying with cash instead of credit or a loan would also be a scam as it follows the exact flow that Crypto does.
Every dollar in circulation is NOT the result of a loan. If you borrow money then it would be, but if you earn it then it is not a loan as you are free to keep it as long as you want and never spend it.
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