Topic: [SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement - page 159. (Read 381579 times)

Skycoin must safer than safecoin.Because each generation will do better than the last.

If not ,skycoin will be  challenged.

Safety is the most important.

Skycoin is money?or other thing.

Development Update: Skywire

Everything was working in January; launch has been delayed because of refactoring. We are exhausted because of coding coin. Everyone wants to get coin over with and get meshnet working. We can get a lot of press on reddit by delivering the meshnet. People are rioting because of Comcast/net neutrality right now.

Everyone is ready to deploy nodes in their city, setup local meetings, develop hardware and coordinate deployment across North America. The software is not ready however. We are realizing that this matters 100x more than the consensus stuff right now. If consensus and security takes a year, its fine.

We should get coin minimally working, do the IPO, release the meshnet software and then hype the fuck out of it everywhere. The success of the Maidsafe IPO before they have even demonstrated the technical feasibility of their coin is another factor that has changed our perspective. Even if Skycoin has several long term goals for the coin in terms of security and usability, we should focus on what will have the greatest impact and create the most value right now.

On Reddit, people want Google to come in and save them with Google Fiber. Google is not going to save them. Google is only rolling out enough fiber that they can threaten Comcast if they start throttling Youtube and demanding money. Reddit want salvation and want to feel that there is something they can do to fight Comcast. Skycoin/Skywire is the salvation they want and something people can do now. We need to get the software working.

We need to bridge the last mile between the home and the fiber backbone.

This means,
- we should put the main blockchain in a personal blockchain
- Launch the mainchain now, so people can send and receive. Get IPO over with
- Move the wallet Javascript developers onto the Mesh network map for coordinating node deployment
- Get mesh working in a few days.  
- Release white paper and put one guy on consensus
- Cut whatever corners are needed until mesh is running
- Deemphasize Skycoin's security and other things. Focus on the Darknet Plan message.

Skycoin is now in Alpha. We are launching immediately. We will be pushing breaking changes frequently until beta. If we have to do resets, balances will not change and the total number of coins will not change. Any reasonable change except those two is fair game until beta. We will be breaking network protocol compatibility every week. We will try to put in alert system so people know to install updates.

glad to see the dev to answer questions from time to time and give out more educational information. It is important for the devs to answer questions if you want to build a community.

skycoin vs BTS

skycoin vs safecoin!!!

Skycoin vs Ripple
Skycoin vs Ethereum
Skycoin vs Batman
Skycoin vs Aliens
Skycoin vs Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone

Skycoin~~~~

Here's my assement of what he said.

Skycoin vs Ripple:

Skycoin is similar to Ripple at a high level, but with extreme differences
- Skycoin uses Outputs and Addresses for increased privacy and security and Ripple uses Accounts (which we feel are dangerous)  [TRUE - Ripple does not use inputs and outputs like Bitcoin]
- Skycoin has block level consensus, Ripple does transaction level, which makes it easier to allow nodes to freeze assets.  [TRUE - there are no blocks in Ripple]
- Skycoin node consensus decisions are public and published so nodes can be held accountable, Ripple node consensus decisions are made in secret [NOT SURE - not sure what he means by 'in secret']
- Skycoin gateway protocol is not on the blockchain and allows anyone to create any asset they want. Ripple's gateways only support a subset of hardcoded currency assets that Ripple decided to support and they are on the blockchain. Ripple does not support contracts, loans, options or more advanced scripted assets.  [NOT SURE-  Did not know that Ripple currency assets are hard coded.  Need to verify this. ]   [FALSE - The Ripple protocol is sufficiently malleable that it can support new kinds of smart properties.   However, it requires the Ripple devs to implement this.]
- Skycoin nodes are run by users, Ripple nodes are run by financial institutions and the Ripple developers.
[FALSE, Ripple nodes can be run by anyone]

- Skycoin is much much simpler than Ripple. The core of Skycoin is only a few thousand lines of code and easy to audit and verify. Ripple is a few hundred thousand lines of code and no one can understand how it works.
[More of a question of Go versus C++]

- Skycoin is easy to run and users only have to run one program. Ripple requires running between one and three servers depending on what you are using Ripple for.
[Ease of use here is a subjective judgement]

Escrow accepted?

Can you tell us why you think he did not get his facts right? Can you give out your reasons, your own facts? Skycoin guy at least gave out his facts. Now it is your turn. I am just curious.

dev can you give us a roughly timeline for skycoin ipo?

I don't think you really looked into how Ripple works. If you're going to criticize something at least get your facts straight.
Nevertheless your project sounds interesting so I'll keep an eye on it.

Interesting project.

- coin is done
- DHT lookup is done
- Services is done
- New blockchain sync is being worked on
- New transaction relay is being worked on
- IPO website has to be built
- IPO start

We spent a lot of time over last two weeks bringing on new developers for the meshnet project and getting them setup. That slowed down the coin a bit.

Development Update:

I have twelve Redbulls and will try to launch by tomorrow.

Great explanation... but where can I find a detailed explanation of how SkyCoin achieves consensus?

Also,  what is the state of the code base?  Is it feature complete or are we still waiting on stuff to be implemented?

People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

I am waiting for the moment when people realize this, and from that moment on, all our lives will make a turn for the better.

In Ripple you have a bunch of node. If a peer rejects a transaction, then to achieve consensus, the connection's peers will drop the transaction and the rejection of the transaction propagates through the network. That means that a single bad node can freeze the assets in a particular address.

Ripple is must more vulnerable to government influence and control than Bitcoin, because control of the network is centralized in financial institutions. Nodes are run by exchanges (called gateways in ripple). Exchanges are highly regulated by governments. They need licenses and government and bank approval to operate. Governments can court order exchanges to block transactions for particular Ripple addresses and the exchanges must comply and have the ability to comply. Governments can impose Know Your Customer Requirements through the exchanges that control the key nodes in the network.

The other flaw is that node consensus occurs in private in Ripple. Nodes can act maliciously and it cannot be detected by the public. In Skycoin, consensus is public record and malicious nodes can be held accountable. Ripple only works if you assume the nodes in the network are not malicious, which is a bad assumption.

The other problem with the Ripple network is that most of the nodes are still run by the development organization. Control of the Ripple network is centralized with the developers. When you consider the number of secret court orders that many crypto companies have been receiving lately to backdoor their software, its very dangerous. The government has gone to companies like Google and Lavabit and told them "You have to do this" and they have to do it. They are not allowed to tell anyone. Companies that have tried to resist or fought the court orders or did not comply voluntarily have been crushed.

You can comply with the court order, or you can comply with the court order.  Many people decide "I am not going to do this" and decide to shut down the company instead of complying with the order. The government produces another court order saying you are not allowed to shut down the company and still have to comply with the court order. They tell you that you will go to jail if you dont do it. This is what happened to Lavabit. Ripple will comply, they are not going to shutdown and lose their investors money and destroy the value of their stock options over ideological principals.

Skycoin started with a central account like Ripple has, but later decided it was too dangerous for privacy and security. Skycoin and Bitcoin use outputs and generate new addresses for each transaction and we feel this is a better long term solution than the choice Ripple made.

Skycoin vs Ripple:

Skycoin is similar to Ripple at a high level, but with extreme differences
- Skycoin uses Outputs and Addresses for increased privacy and security and Ripple uses Accounts (which we feel are dangerous)
- Skycoin has block level consensus, Ripple does transaction level, which makes it easier to allow nodes to freeze assets
- Skycoin node consensus decisions are public and published so nodes can be held accountable, Ripple node consensus decisions are made in secret
- Skycoin gateway protocol is not on the blockchain and allows anyone to create any asset they want. Ripple's gateways only support a subset of hardcoded currency assets that Ripple decided to support and they are on the blockchain. Ripple does not support contracts, loans, options or more advanced scripted assets.
- Skycoin nodes are run by users, Ripple nodes are run by financial institutions and the Ripple developers.
- Skycoin is much much simpler than Ripple. The core of Skycoin is only a few thousand lines of code and easy to audit and verify. Ripple is a few hundred thousand lines of code and no one can understand how it works.
- Skycoin is easy to run and users only have to run one program. Ripple requires running between one and three servers depending on what you are using Ripple for.

Ripple is extremely innovative and a great accomplishment, but flawed. The inventor of Ripple has done many great things and has always been on the forefront of innovation. He created eDonkey, MtGox and Ripple. Every single thing he has ever done has been technologically innovative, ahead of its time, achieved great things and then collapsed.

Jed McCaleb is like one of those bioroids from Blade Runner.

What makes you say that ?
How is it flawed ?

If you look at the top coins, Peer Coin, Ripple, Bitcoin, Nxt, Litecoin, its clear that most coins with a fundamental innovation on Bitcoin's security model have done very well.

- Bitcoin was the first and introduced Proof of Work
- Litecoin introduced a new hashing function Scrypt
- Peer Coin introduced Proof of Stake
- Ripple introduced a model of relational consensus, which is flawed but innovative. Has a new codebase
- Nxt introduced pure proof of stake. Has a new codebase.
- Namecoin introduced a key value store on the blockchain

Market Caps:
- Bitcoin: 6 billion
- Litecoin: 300 million
- Peercoin : 50 million
- Ripple: 1 billion (but users have less than 1% of coins; so free float is only 50 million)
- Nxt: 25 million
- Namecoin: 20 million

Skycoin has a fundamentally new consensus model that is a major advance by itself
- transactions in seconds
- transactions cannot be reverted by people who control hashing power
- low cost to run network

Just the consensus model by itself will do well. A major attack affecting Bitcoin exchanges or abuse by miners could move people away from PoW towards coins like Skycoin that guarantee against attacks that revert transactions.

We knew about signature malleability three years ago and a decision was made not to fix the problem in Bitcoin, until people began using it to steal coins. We know about several attacks on Bitcoin that are theoretical, but which are becoming more likely and profitable as the coin value goes up. If you can use a router exploit and hack an internet router that traffic for a Bitcoin node goes through, you can fork the network for that node and steal coins from exchanges, banks and gambling sites.

Skycoin is hardened against all known vulnerabilities in Bitcoin. We were immune to signature malleability before the attacks on Bitcoin even began. We check for hash collisions from the start and did not have to monkey patch it. If someone develops a widespread SHA256 preimage attack, Bitcoin is dead and Skycoin will probably still be running.

Banks and businesses do not want to learn about or check for Signature Malleability. They dont want to know how Bitcoin works. They want to be able to trust that the developers fix known vulnerabilities before coins get stolen. Bitcoin is not clean or mature software. Fixing many of the minor issues in Bitcoin require a blockchain reset, that the developers are unable and unwilling to do.

With the financial success of Bitcoin, we have forgotten that Bitcoin was first and foremost an experiment. Many of the earliest developers of Bitcoin were selling massive blocks of coins when the price hit a dollar, because they never believed it would even get that far. People talk about Bitcoin 2.0, but we should be trying to get to Bitcoin 1.0 . No one can look at the Bitcoin-qt wallet and tell me that this is the best we can do.

In other words, the first goal of the Skycoin project was not to surpass Bitcoin, but merely to get to where we believe Bitcoin should be. The meshnet may fail, but we will still have a solid coin implementation.

I guess that Skycoin just want to test the water first. There is nothing wrong with that. They are engineers and want to do testing for everything. They have been very cautious for the development as well. This is something they are good at. Just do what you are good at. This project is a long shot.