How do you mean that exploitation makes no sense to you? Ever heard of "EA spouse" scandal? Do you really think so many programmers work so long hours for some rational(-ish) reason, like because they have to compete with someone? And if the law was repealed you really think it would positively affect them?
I find it much easier to believe that programmers were working for a rational reason then I do that so many programmers were irrational. It's very easy to think that you know what's good for someone better than they do, but you're almost always wrong.
Topic: So, apparently I can't work more than 40 hours a week... - page 2. (Read 5708 times)
My employer lets me work all the overtime I want... I just don't get paid for it. 
It's amazing how much people will allow themselves to be de facto enslaved by a job, and then have a million excuses for why they can't grow a spine and say "enough". Fuck. That. I'm confident enough in my abilities not to sell myself short. So many of my colleagues work for "free" after their 40 because of fear and know what - they still haven't replaced me with some workaholic boogeyman. Quality > quantity.
Excuses, excuses, excuses.... And yes, I have worked in the real world for years.
It's amazing how much people will allow themselves to be de facto enslaved by a job, and then have a million excuses for why they can't grow a spine and say "enough". Fuck. That. I'm confident enough in my abilities not to sell myself short. So many of my colleagues work for "free" after their 40 because of fear and know what - they still haven't replaced me with some workaholic boogeyman. Quality > quantity.
Excuses, excuses, excuses.... And yes, I have worked in the real world for years.
Work at two different Walmarts.
Problem solved.
You're welcome.
Problem solved.
You're welcome.
This.
Anyone is free to waste their life as they deem fit, but one should not be surprised if the society is trying to do something about it.
I honestly can't parse this. How can you say that people are free to do something that is illegal? Surely making something illegal deprives people of the freedom to do it. As for being surprised when society tramples on individual freedoms, sure, most people have long since stopped being surprised by it.Quote
Quote
While it can be a bit unfortunate that law does not differentiate between people who work overtime voluntarily and these who are exploited, such limits can be easily sidestepped by self-employment, or by silent agreement with employer (as in case of software enterprises).
The law isn't about people who are exploited. That doesn't even make sense. The law is about stopping people who want to work more hours from doing so as that, the thinking goes, would create competitive pressures on others that would make them want to work more hours to be more competitive. (And, as I argued upthread, that 'logic' is broken anyway.) It is already illegal for an employer to compel an employee to work.
If you want to work more, work in your free time
Lol! What's that? (Time spent trolling forums is NOT "free time")
If you want to work more, work in your free time
I actually don't think it negatively affects outcomes that much. I personally would rather have my doctor (who may be tired), who knows my condition the best, take care of me than someone else who is on shift-work or don't really care. The latest studies also don't show the recent reductions in resident work-hours improve patient outcomes. But I agree, the system has to change. We have to find a better way to train physicians and take care of patients.
I, for one, are all for getting more sleep
I, for one, are all for getting more sleep
yap, surgical residency
Ouch. I have always thought the ordeal of residency was weird. Why do we do that? It surely has a deleterious effect on patient outcomes.
yap, surgical residency
Having worked 400+ hours/month for an entire year, I can say from experience that you lose a part of your soul when you work too much. I can see that you're young and anxious, but just be glad if you're paid 1.5 times for overtime. If you need the money and don't care for overtime, go get a second job. Outside of a few regulated professions (like airline pilots, etc), nobody is preventing you from working two jobs.
Why did you do this?
Had to. I was salaried, but I work in the medical field in the US. Even then, I am glad I am not a factory worker in China.
I meant: why would you choose/stick with a job like that for so long?
Med school?
Anyone is free to waste their life as they deem fit, but one should not be surprised if the society is trying to do something about it.
I honestly can't parse this. How can you say that people are free to do something that is illegal? Surely making something illegal deprives people of the freedom to do it. As for being surprised when society tramples on individual freedoms, sure, most people have long since stopped being surprised by it.Quote
While it can be a bit unfortunate that law does not differentiate between people who work overtime voluntarily and these who are exploited, such limits can be easily sidestepped by self-employment, or by silent agreement with employer (as in case of software enterprises).
The law isn't about people who are exploited. That doesn't even make sense. The law is about stopping people who want to work more hours from doing so as that, the thinking goes, would create competitive pressures on others that would make them want to work more hours to be more competitive. (And, as I argued upthread, that 'logic' is broken anyway.) It is already illegal for an employer to compel an employee to work. Wealth is not zero-sum.
This is only true in the absence of negative externalities. Unfortunately, force and fraud comprise the vast majority of the economy at this point.
Let's put it this way, if your parents died suddenly and you had everything they now own, would you still want to work 80 hrs/wk ? What reasonable amount of your time would you then want to spend stocking shelves at Wal-Mart?
Having worked 400+ hours/month for an entire year, I can say from experience that you lose a part of your soul when you work too much. I can see that you're young and anxious, but just be glad if you're paid 1.5 times for overtime. If you need the money and don't care for overtime, go get a second job. Outside of a few regulated professions (like airline pilots, etc), nobody is preventing you from working two jobs.
Why did you do this?
Had to. I was salaried, but I work in the medical field in the US. Even then, I am glad I am not a factory worker in China.
To these who feel law is restricting their freedom to work as much as they like, please think about this:
http://lifestyle.sympatico.ca/living/palliative_care_nurse_reveals_top_5_deathbed_regrets/310eaae8
Anyone is free to waste their life as they deem fit, but one should not be surprised if the society is trying to do something about it. While it can be a bit unfortunate that law does not differentiate between people who work overtime voluntarily and these who are exploited, such limits can be easily sidestepped by self-employment, or by silent agreement with employer (as in case of software enterprises).
For one I'm glad I live in Europe, can work just 20-35 hours per week on average (depends on project) and people around me find it quite agreeable
. I have small studio apartment(without mortgage), 12 year old car, am quite happy with it and don't feel entitled to more.
http://lifestyle.sympatico.ca/living/palliative_care_nurse_reveals_top_5_deathbed_regrets/310eaae8
Anyone is free to waste their life as they deem fit, but one should not be surprised if the society is trying to do something about it. While it can be a bit unfortunate that law does not differentiate between people who work overtime voluntarily and these who are exploited, such limits can be easily sidestepped by self-employment, or by silent agreement with employer (as in case of software enterprises).
For one I'm glad I live in Europe, can work just 20-35 hours per week on average (depends on project) and people around me find it quite agreeable
. I have small studio apartment(without mortgage), 12 year old car, am quite happy with it and don't feel entitled to more. Having worked 400+ hours/month for an entire year, I can say from experience that you lose a part of your soul when you work too much.
+1
Having worked 400+ hours/month for an entire year, I can say from experience that you lose a part of your soul when you work too much. I can see that you're young and anxious, but just be glad if you're paid 1.5 times for overtime. If you need the money and don't care for overtime, go get a second job. Outside of a few regulated professions (like airline pilots, etc), nobody is preventing you from working two jobs.
Why did you do this?
One day you will wake up and find you have been working for 20 years. At that point you won't want to work 40+ hrs. You will then be thrown away like a broken piece of equipment and quickly replaced by some kid who will work 80hrs. for half as much.
The "free market" sounds like freedom. But it would be a very brutal arrangement. Look at how well it has worked out for America recently. All our jobs are now filled by people in China who work as virtual slaves. There is your free market.
The "free market" sounds like freedom. But it would be a very brutal arrangement. Look at how well it has worked out for America recently. All our jobs are now filled by people in China who work as virtual slaves. There is your free market.
Having worked 400+ hours/month for an entire year, I can say from experience that you lose a part of your soul when you work too much. I can see that you're young and anxious, but just be glad if you're paid 1.5 times for overtime. If you need the money and don't care for overtime, go get a second job. Outside of a few regulated professions (like airline pilots, etc), nobody is preventing you from working two jobs.
Tons of people do this with low end labor jobs. Actually, for some jobs, people prefer to get paid cash rather than let the government tax it and withhold it.
I think another primary reason people like getting paid in cash is it is often paid at the end of the day for work rendered. It's often amazing how the incentive to work for less goes up when one knows payment is forthcoming immediately.
Atlas, I have it - the solution to your problem.
Pretend to be an illegal alien.
That way you can work 90 hours a week AND get paid less than the minimum wage. Best of all, no health and safety regulations so you can risk your life to make the boss a few extra cents.
Problem solved.
No need to thank me - it just makes me happy to know that you will finally be able to work the long hours with low pay that you dreamed of and so richly deserve!
Pretend to be an illegal alien.
That way you can work 90 hours a week AND get paid less than the minimum wage. Best of all, no health and safety regulations so you can risk your life to make the boss a few extra cents.
Problem solved.
No need to thank me - it just makes me happy to know that you will finally be able to work the long hours with low pay that you dreamed of and so richly deserve!
Tons of people do this with low end labor jobs. Actually, for some jobs, people prefer to get paid cash rather than let the government tax it and withhold it.
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