Topic: So Tell Me Again How Selling Accounts Prevents Scams - page 2. (Read 2394 times)

>advertised on the forum
Sure. Smoking is bad for you. So is sucking on a shotgun, and absentmindedly pulling the trigger. One is simpler to avoid than the other.
Start by not allowing account sales and sig campaigns. Then we can see what could be done about thermos promoting scams.
Baby steps.

>played zero in the scam being successful.
False. Sure, it could have been accomplished differently, just as

@Blazed: Then why ban links to phishing sites? Since linking to phishing sites is not allowed, clooless noobs are lulled into thinking that phishing links don't exist, a sense of false security [& all the rest of the bullshit rationale for allowing account sales].

@Pattart re "I don't think that any Bitcoin has been returned to scam victims ever really": Never happened in 6+ years, so irrelevant.

I don't think that any Bitcoin has been returned to scam victims ever really since it is hard to force the scammer to return any bitcoin. However what I said above does make it easier to prevent people from falling for other scams run by the same person but under different accounts. People can give negative trust to all of the guy's alts so that if he tries to scam again, he can't with any account he already has, and the more accounts he gets, the more likely he might slip up and then that can bring down entire scams by linking the account back to a previous account that scammed. Most of this will be easier since all of the data about the sales of the accounts are already located on this forum. You don't have to go and hunt around in other forums and try to get other people from other forums to give up data for a scam accusation, it is all already here in one place.

Not much could have been done to prevent that scam really. People need to pay attention to what they are clicking on plain and simple.

He also advertised on the forum, and the forum ad most likely got many more views then the signature campaign posts did.

Like I said, the fact that he was using an obviously purchased account played zero in the scam being successful. He directed people to a website that directed people to other fake websites that appeared to be trustworthy. I don't think anyone investigated how trustworthy the person running it was.

Absolutely. Also, terrorists don't have to use Kalashnikovs to kill people. They could have amade some shitty nitric explosives, or simply smothered people to death with pillows.
Doesn't change the fact that both a bought account & a sig campaign were instrumental in this scam.

@Blazed: Not sure. What do you feel is the alternative? Simply ignore? Pretend that a bunch of petty profiteers didn't turn this place into a joke? Accept that the Bitcoin userbase is a bunch of petty scammers, as browsing bitcointalk suggests?

@Pattart: Thanks for contributing. Could you give me a rough estimate re. percentage of scammed BTC returned to the victims, via the methods you've outlined?

The account that he bought GotaPauj with was already a full member account, so it didn't have the posting restrictions.

OP, account sales do not prevent scams. However by allowing account sales on this forum, it will be easier to catch scammers. If account sales were not allowed here, then those sales would still occur, just not on this forum. By having the sales on this forum, people can check the threads and figure out what other accounts are owned by that seller. The admins can check the ip addresses of the scammer and check the pms to determine who bought what account. By facilitating the sales here, all of the data regarding the account sale which can be used later in catching scammers is all in one place where the admins can also help catch the scammers.

He probably bought the account to get around posting restrictions, and limits to the number of PM's he can send every hour. He could have easily created an account two months ago, making a small number of posts to get around these restrictions.
In this case it does not matter because he was successful. However there is no guarantee that his scam was successful, and if it was not successful then he would be out the money that he spent buying it.

Well obviously hilarious is biased towards campaigns as he runs a few. Simple fact is the forum would be better without them and open account sales. I agree you can not stop sales, but it would make it harder. Also scams like what happened can not be stopped because the people who fall for them would scammed one way or another. This thread is pointless like the other 50 threads before it. The forum will not stop sales or signature campaigns.

@Quickseller:
>I don't think anyone fell for the scam because it was run by a full member.

Right. The account was bought not because it made scamming easier, but to help bitcoin ecosystem. Because people trust a noob account as much as any other account. Brother probably bought the account to participate in a signature campaign

>Once it is determined that the account has attempted (successfully or not) a scam, that account will most likely receive negative trust and the value of the initial investment will be zero (or close to it).

So what you're telling me is GotaPauj account is worthless now? Dang, that'll teach him!

>So mr anon (don't act like I don't know who you are btw)

Sharp as a pickle! I also know who you are - an account dealer caught lying through your teeth, also wearing a paid sig. To reiterate:

@hilariousandco: See boldface above.

It doesn't require balls, but that seems to be your excuse. It would be like me using an alt to respond to this thread just so I didn't have to deal with the same crap that inevitably comes from brand new accounts created to talk forum policy. I have more respect and patience for those that don't feel the need to cowardly create a new account to speak their mind. Absolutely nothing would have happened to your main account had you posted this from it but you probably just want a throwaway so you can post crap without it reflceting badly on your main account.


And see my post above. I also understand the sheer idiocy of arguing this point with a forum newb created soley to post baseless accusations, irrelevancy, and ad hominems, but that's why you created a new account.


Account sales would not stop if signature campaigns went. Sure, accounts are currently farmed here largely because of signature campaigns but if campaigns were banned then all that would happen would be a hell of a lot of high-ranked dirt cheap accounts flood the market when people ditch this forum as they realise they no longer need their account(s). Now, if you're making the argument that account sales encourage scams then people would sure as hell mostly buy them to scam once that's the only thing they have worth for.

How exactly would effectively banning the sale of accounts have stopped the bitcoinblackfriday.info scam? The account had zero prior trade history and zero trust. I don't think anyone fell for the scam because it was run by a full member.

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To answer your question, allowing the sale of accounts gives value to accounts. If someone wants to scam with a purchased account then they will first need to invest some amount of money to buy the account. Once it is determined that the account has attempted (successfully or not) a scam, that account will most likely receive negative trust and the value of the initial investment will be zero (or close to it). In order to roi by scamming with a purchased account, a scammer will need to scam an amount more then what they paid for the account. It is also not uncommon for scams to outright fail (I have been the cause of a number of scams failing ), so the potential scammer who buys an account with the intent of scamming will actually lose money.

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Why the banning of the sale of accounts actually helps scammers:
As mentioned previously mentioned, if account sales are banned then account selling will still take place, but underground. This will cause the price of accounts to fall, likely significantly. This means that a scammer who wants to buy an account in order to scam with it will need to invest less money to attempt to pull off their scam, and risk less money to attempt their scam. As a result more of these scams will have a positive roi.

So mr anon (don't act like I don't know who you are btw), do you want to make it easier for scammers to make money via scamming?

The only way to curb account sales is to get rid off signature campaigns. The issue with that is the forum wants all of those posters here so it will never happen. This forum would lose a huge amount of traffic if the campaigns stopped.

>don't have the balls to post from the main account
When discussing forum policy requires balls, something is definitely wrong

>Keep banging your head against that wall
See postscript in my previous post.

Yes, because people leave negative feedback on others for complaining about moderation or forum policy. I'll tell you why people create new accounts to post this stuff, because people either don't have the balls to post from the main account, don't want to look stupid or just troll asking the same questions that have been asked over and over again. Probably all three in your case. Keep banging your head against that wall.

Neg trust ratings, selective moderation leading to ban (by bitcointalk forum mods selling accounts/participating in sig campaigns.
Use your brain.


Use your brain. Banning account sales does not mean nobody will ever sell or buy accounts. Banning them will just push them further underground.