So you have DTs who do not want you to talk openly?

actmyname

copper member

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Spear the bees

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 05, 2019, 04:07:26 PM

Still no answer, why is a user like marlboroza which has contributed NOTHING financially to the forum more trusted than a user who resides in Currency Exchange and Goods, Computer Hardware which has put at risk thousand of dollars, this make no sense to me and looks like a fully centralized system rather than decentralization. This still remains the biggest flaw of the forum itself, including the trust system.

Who are you talking about?

And here's the deal... the positive trust comes from different users on bitcointalk. You don't seem to have a problem with that part of it except for the fact that the trust isn't going the way that you want it.

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 05, 2019, 04:07:26 PM

People are being tagged for something some users on DT think they will do, I have bought accounts (it is still allowed as far as I know) but have not scammed anyone and I have made deals here with people and Paypal risky ones.

Assume that you don't know whether the person you're trading with was the same user that built their history around their account or not.

How are you meant to trust them? That user you're trading with has multiple identities, as far as anyone is concerned.

Hhampuz

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 6194

Meh.

Quote from: Vod on June 05, 2019, 06:08:12 PM

You are correct Hhampuz. A script kiddie can hack Microsoft/etc keys and build up quite a lot of trust quickly. There are many ways to build trust just by selling items and not contributing anything else. It's much harder to get respected knowledgeable users to trust you, and I think that is the issue a lot of these sellers have had over the past four years.

The trust system may have a few issues, but it's a lot better than the centralized one we had before. And it's improving with time.

Exactly. Then it's up to me what that trust entails. Some people I might trust with straight up BTC/Phyiscal items while I perhaps wouldn't trust them to create a userscript or a wallet generator. Which is also why we have comments that can be added (or so I thought).

Vod

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Licking my boob since 1970

Quote from: Hhampuz on June 05, 2019, 05:55:16 PM

Do you know how much positive trust has been flowing around for gamed deals with money involed? Short term loans, selling $1 items with unlimited stock etc. etc.

You are correct Hhampuz. A script kiddie can hack Microsoft/etc keys and build up quite a lot of trust quickly. There are many ways to build trust just by selling items and not contributing anything else to the forum. It's much harder to get respected knowledgeable users to trust you, and I think that is the issue a lot of these sellers have had over the past four years. Gravy train is over.

The trust system may have a few issues, but it's a lot better than the centralized one we had before. And it's improving with time.

Hhampuz

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 6194

Meh.

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 05, 2019, 04:16:19 PM

I think it is far more easy to game a system where money is not involved. I trust more users like minerjones, OgNasty, TECSHARE who have contributed massively to the forum and not your bullshit propaganda friends.

It's easy when you are using users to your preference, rather than the system as a whole.

Do you know how much positive trust has been flowing around for gamed deals with money involed? Short term loans, selling $1 items with unlimited stock etc. etc.

Bullshit propaganda friends is interesting though, last time I looked anyone was free to exclude users that they don't want to see ratings from, if you are a high ranking member that is yet to realize this I'm not sure what you've been up to.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

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First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: TheNewAnon135246 on June 05, 2019, 12:37:29 PM

So you really think that Theymos added a feature to the current trust system purely to be able to exclude you? Talk about having a big ego.

You people are so predictable. Yeah you are right, he just went around personally asking people to remove me from their lists because he didn't want me on DT2. Then when he couldn't get it done that way very shortly after exclusions were created and I was the very first one excluded, by Theymos and his main moderator Badbear OFC. This was all to protect some one who turned out to be a con artist BTW. Theymos made me bag hold his own embarrassment for him to cover for his own mistakes, I am just here to return what is rightfully his property. Yep, I am just imagining this and it is my huge ego, certainly not his huge ego.

Quote from: Hhampuz on June 05, 2019, 04:14:45 PM

What you are suggesting is even more stupid, do you know how easy it would be to game a system that relies on money being involved?

Yeah you are right. It certainly is much easier to spend years and doing hundreds of trades with tons of trusted members and be trusted with thousands in value, than it is to run around and plaster hundreds of people red shooting yourself up to the top of the DT in a quarter of the time never having risked anything.

BitcoinSupremo

copper member

Activity: 1442

Merit: 529

Quote from: Hhampuz on June 05, 2019, 04:14:45 PM

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 05, 2019, 04:07:26 PM

Quote from: actmyname on June 04, 2019, 04:41:04 PM

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 02, 2019, 09:03:41 AM

I am not here for making friends, different from the assholes(DT GANG)

Meaning who?

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 02, 2019, 09:03:41 AM

The point is with DT1 qualification it is still room for more abusive feedbacks. No one have answered me yet, why is more trusted a person who leave abusive feedback like marlboroza compared to one who have dealt thousand and thousand of dollars in Computer Hardware and Currency Exchange section ? This is the BIGGEST flawing point of this forum.

Then your issue isn't with the system... it's with the people in the system.

Meaning you don't like how the decentralized system ended up and you want to centralize it in your favor.

Still no answer, why is a user like marlboroza which has contributed NOTHING financially to the forum more trusted than a user who resides in Currency Exchange and Goods, Computer Hardware which has put at risk thousand of dollars, this make no sense to me and looks like a fully centralized system rather than decentralization. This still remains the biggest flaw of the forum itself, including the trust system.

People are being tagged for something some users on DT think they will do, I have bought accounts (it is still allowed as far as I know) but have not scammed anyone and I have made deals here with people and Paypal risky ones.

What you are suggesting is even more stupid, do you know how easy it would be to game a system that relies on money being involved?

I think it is far more easy to game a system where money is not involved. I trust more users like minerjones, OgNasty, TECSHARE who have contributed massively to the forum and not your bullshit propaganda friends.

Hhampuz

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 6194

Meh.

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 05, 2019, 04:07:26 PM

Quote from: actmyname on June 04, 2019, 04:41:04 PM

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 02, 2019, 09:03:41 AM

I am not here for making friends, different from the assholes(DT GANG)

Meaning who?

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 02, 2019, 09:03:41 AM

The point is with DT1 qualification it is still room for more abusive feedbacks. No one have answered me yet, why is more trusted a person who leave abusive feedback like marlboroza compared to one who have dealt thousand and thousand of dollars in Computer Hardware and Currency Exchange section ? This is the BIGGEST flawing point of this forum.

Then your issue isn't with the system... it's with the people in the system.

Meaning you don't like how the decentralized system ended up and you want to centralize it in your favor.

Still no answer, why is a user like marlboroza which has contributed NOTHING financially to the forum more trusted than a user who resides in Currency Exchange and Goods, Computer Hardware which has put at risk thousand of dollars, this make no sense to me and looks like a fully centralized system rather than decentralization. This still remains the biggest flaw of the forum itself, including the trust system.

People are being tagged for something some users on DT think they will do, I have bought accounts (it is still allowed as far as I know) but have not scammed anyone and I have made deals here with people and Paypal risky ones.

What you are suggesting is even more stupid, do you know how easy it would be to game a system that relies on money being involved?

BitcoinSupremo

copper member

Activity: 1442

Merit: 529

Quote from: actmyname on June 04, 2019, 04:41:04 PM

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 02, 2019, 09:03:41 AM

I am not here for making friends, different from the assholes(DT GANG)

Meaning who?

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 02, 2019, 09:03:41 AM

The point is with DT1 qualification it is still room for more abusive feedbacks. No one have answered me yet, why is more trusted a person who leave abusive feedback like marlboroza compared to one who have dealt thousand and thousand of dollars in Computer Hardware and Currency Exchange section ? This is the BIGGEST flawing point of this forum.

Then your issue isn't with the system... it's with the people in the system.

Meaning you don't like how the decentralized system ended up and you want to centralize it in your favor.

Still no answer, why is a user like marlboroza which has contributed NOTHING financially to the forum more trusted than a user who resides in Currency Exchange and Goods, Computer Hardware which has put at risk thousand of dollars, this make no sense to me and looks like a fully centralized system rather than decentralization. This still remains the biggest flaw of the forum itself, including the trust system.

People are being tagged for something some users on DT think they will do, I have bought accounts (it is still allowed as far as I know) but have not scammed anyone and I have made deals here with people and Paypal risky ones.

TheNewAnon135246

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฿uy ฿itcoin

So you really think that Theymos added a feature to the current trust system purely to be able to exclude you? Talk about having a big ego.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 05, 2019, 07:49:08 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on June 04, 2019, 11:01:39 PM

to make a lame attempt to invalidate observable facts.

The only actual fact here is that theymos did decentralize the DT1 list by placing it entirely in the hands of the user base via their own trust lists, as opposed to his own handpicked list of users as it was before. Whether or not this was done to "put a lid on people he doesn't agree with" is pure conjecture based on your gut feeling and nothing else, not a fact as you seem to be suggesting.

I'm also curious as to how you think theymos has manipulated the publically viewable individual trust lists of however many users to obtain his desired goal (whatever that may be) without anyone realising.

Actually, he has been doing it since he created exclusions. He didn't like a rating I had left, and not everyone on DT1 would remove me from their trust lists, so PURELY BY COINCIDENCE I am sure, trust list exclusions were then created and I became the first exclusion by him and Badbear. This is demonstrably manipulation on his part to get the results he personally wants. He didn't manipulate trust lists, he manipulated the formula for how it is calculated until it basically handed control of it back to the group he desired on a silver platter. You will remember the so called attempted "default trust hijacking" that was going on, and then he again modified the system and that wasn't happening any more. These are all publicly observable events. I think the word you are looking for is "caring" not "realizing".

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

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Quote from: TECSHARE on June 04, 2019, 11:01:39 PM

to make a lame attempt to invalidate observable facts.

The only actual fact here is that theymos did decentralize the DT1 list by placing it entirely in the hands of the user base via their own trust lists, as opposed to his own handpicked list of users as it was before. Whether or not this was done to "put a lid on people he doesn't agree with" is pure conjecture based on your gut feeling and nothing else, not a fact as you seem to be suggesting.

I'm also curious as to how you think theymos has manipulated the publically viewable individual trust lists of however many users to obtain his desired goal (whatever that may be) without anyone realising.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: suchmoon on June 04, 2019, 10:48:17 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on June 04, 2019, 10:20:07 PM

IMO there have been several steps towards "decentralization" that were meant to simply give the superficial appearance of decentralization. There is further evidence of this when the trust list didn't go in the way they liked, Theymos simply changed the rules to move it in his personally preferred direction as he always does.

It would have been far easier for him to move it any direction when he had sole control over DT1 but I'm sure you'll come up with another bowl of word salad to explain how it makes sense for you to peddle this conspiracy theory and at the same time to beg the big bad theymos to enforce your "standards".

Except this way he gets to pretend he decentralized the system so he doesn't look like a total hypocrite every time he invents new "features" to put a lid on anyone he doesn't personally agree with. There doesn't need to be any conspiracy, but that is interesting you would use that terminology to make a lame attempt to invalidate observable facts. Keep toading toady.

suchmoon

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https://bpip.org

Quote from: TECSHARE on June 04, 2019, 10:20:07 PM

IMO there have been several steps towards "decentralization" that were meant to simply give the superficial appearance of decentralization. There is further evidence of this when the trust list didn't go in the way they liked, Theymos simply changed the rules to move it in his personally preferred direction as he always does.

It would have been far easier for him to move it any direction when he had sole control over DT1 but I'm sure you'll come up with another bowl of word salad to explain how it makes sense for you to peddle this conspiracy theory and at the same time to beg the big bad theymos to enforce your "standards".

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: actmyname on June 04, 2019, 07:52:35 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on June 04, 2019, 07:50:08 PM

If the system isn't effectively managing the people within the system, the system is broken.

Their problem was with the lack of decentralization. Their solution was to use a centralizing method in order to rectify that.

IMO there have been several steps towards "decentralization" that were meant to simply give the superficial appearance of decentralization. There is further evidence of this when the trust list didn't go in the way they liked, Theymos simply changed the rules to move it in his personally preferred direction as he always does.

actmyname

copper member

Activity: 2562

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Spear the bees

Quote from: TECSHARE on June 04, 2019, 07:50:08 PM

If the system isn't effectively managing the people within the system, the system is broken.

Their problem was with the lack of decentralization. Their solution was to use a centralizing method in order to rectify that.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: actmyname on June 04, 2019, 04:41:04 PM

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 02, 2019, 09:03:41 AM

I am not here for making friends, different from the assholes(DT GANG)

Meaning who?

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 02, 2019, 09:03:41 AM

The point is with DT1 qualification it is still room for more abusive feedbacks. No one have answered me yet, why is more trusted a person who leave abusive feedback like marlboroza compared to one who have dealt thousand and thousand of dollars in Computer Hardware and Currency Exchange section ? This is the BIGGEST flawing point of this forum.

Then your issue isn't with the system... it's with the people in the system.

Meaning you don't like how the decentralized system ended up and you want to centralize it in your favor.

If the system isn't effectively managing the people within the system, the system is broken.

actmyname

copper member

Activity: 2562

Merit: 2510

Spear the bees

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 02, 2019, 09:03:41 AM

I am not here for making friends, different from the assholes(DT GANG)

Meaning who?

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on June 02, 2019, 09:03:41 AM

The point is with DT1 qualification it is still room for more abusive feedbacks. No one have answered me yet, why is more trusted a person who leave abusive feedback like marlboroza compared to one who have dealt thousand and thousand of dollars in Computer Hardware and Currency Exchange section ? This is the BIGGEST flawing point of this forum.

Then your issue isn't with the system... it's with the people in the system.

Meaning you don't like how the decentralized system ended up and you want to centralize it in your favor.

BitcoinSupremo

copper member

Activity: 1442

Merit: 529

Quote from: Vod on May 30, 2019, 06:43:47 PM

Quote from: BitcoinSupremo on May 30, 2019, 04:41:44 PM

Talking about decentralization why are only a few people given power, more than decentralization this is just a communist run lobby. That is how I see it.

Theymos set clear rules for DT1 qualification, and it applies to everyone. How is it the forum's fault that you don't make friends easily?

I am not here for making friends, different from the assholes(DT GANG) here I have a life outside of this forum. The point is with DT1 qualification it is still room for more abusive feedbacks. No one have answered me yet, why is more trusted a person who leave abusive feedback like marlboroza compared to one who have dealt thousand and thousand of dollars in Computer Hardware and Currency Exchange section ? This is the BIGGEST flawing point of this forum.

pushups44

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Activity: 868

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Quote from: mikeywith on May 30, 2019, 10:58:45 PM

Quote from: pushups44 on May 30, 2019, 10:39:03 PM

the lack of decentralization of the current system.

I always smile when i read the word "decentralization" , it is something that everyone in crypto repeats without knowing what it actually means , and that's funny because plain decentralization does not exist, and we are trying to force it into existence, sadly this will never happen.

Anyhow, how do you ( or anybody who dislikes the current system) imagine a decentralized system to look like ?

a voting/election system is the closest thing to the imaginary decentralization , same like government election, just because the people you support fail to make it - it does not mean the system is bad, it simply means there are MORE people who disagree than agree with your point of view.

I am not saying this is a perfect system, but i see nothing else "better" replacing it except for a total "centralized" list picked by Theymos.

Yes, decentralization is a philosophical concept, and it's way overused, and... it's not absolute in practice. Take bitcoin. Within the ecosystem, there are clearly people who are more influential than others - according to their hash power, the amount of coins they have, their software development capabilities, etc. So other coins were developed in response to concerns about how bitcoin should scale, with differences over the meaning of decentralization, and in turn these coins have been met with skepticism about their own forms of centralization.

A forum like this cannot be decentralized - let's get that out of the way. A forum cannot remain truly decentralized, I imagine, unless it is willing to be flooded with trolls and perhaps illegal activities. So we can place moderators who balance out the power - I suppose like the EOS delegated system - but then this is also not truly decentralized.

So all we can do is make the forum as decentralized as possible - not run by any one person or group with interests that deviate from those of the ecosystem at least - without allowing the quality of posts to deteriorate such that the purpose of the forum is undermined.

Anyway, you are right, it is just not possible for this forum to be decentralized.

mikeywith

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be constructive or S.T.F.U

Quote from: pushups44 on May 30, 2019, 10:39:03 PM

the lack of decentralization of the current system.

I always smile when i read the word "decentralization" , it is something that everyone in crypto repeats without knowing what it actually means , and that's funny because plain decentralization does not exist, and we are trying to force it into existence, sadly this will never happen.

Anyhow, how do you ( or anybody who dislikes the current system) imagine a decentralized system to look like ?

a voting/election system is the closest thing to the imaginary decentralization , same like government election, just because the people you support fail to make it - it does not mean the system is bad, it simply means there are MORE people who disagree than agree with your point of view.

I am not saying this is a perfect system, but i see nothing else "better" replacing it except for a total "centralized" list picked by Theymos.

Topic: So you have DTs who do not want you to talk openly? (Read 1815 times)