Topic: SolidCoin 2 Release - Monday 10th October 23:35 UTC - page 2. (Read 21403 times)

What is this new bullshit?

So if the pre-mined 1.2 million SC wallets go below 1 million, then they no longer function as a trusted node, but the coins still flow back to CoinHunter?

The reason why Gavin prefers not to implement low priority updates, such as multi-wallet functionality (other than the fact that the idea in itself is utterly stupid), is because there is only so much testing you can do before sending an update out into the wild - and who knows, maybe it'll turn out the hashrate reporting went bad.

Care to link it? I've not seen any "good reasons".


None of the things you mentioned are integral to the Bitcoin network. I don't have to use exchanges, mining pools will be abandoned if they harm the network (or people will switch to a p2p pool), and I can use escrow or purchase things face to face. I cannot do anything about having to trust CoinHunter's friends which are an integral part of the network.


FUD. I am and others are.


Multi-wallet is a hack implemented by someone who doesn't understand the problem he's trying to solve (more intelligent/manual unspent output selection algorithm is the proper solution). No new features, huh? Not even the password encrypted wallet that CoinHunter copied from Bitcoin? 


If SolidCoin grows as you desperately wish it will, mining will become a specialized activity just like it has for Bitcoin. In that case, what good will mining built in to the client provide? None, as larger scale miners won't want to micromanage their mining machines.


What reason do I have to trust you? I suspect you have ulterior motives for promoting SolidCoin. RealSolid had an incentive to make people think they were mining faster than they were. When it was suspected that this number was inflated, he "found a bug" which meant the hash rates in the beta were wrong. Whoops. Then, when developing a GPU miner with the intent that it is "equal" to the CPU miner, he magically discovered that CPU hash rates were being under reported. I posit that the first bug was introduced by him to make CPU mining artificially attractive, and was fixed to cover his ass. Further, the second bug was "discovered" (introduced) by him to make it appear that CPU and GPU mining are on equal footing, when in fact they are not.


But you said that the millions of coins are "fake" and not worth anything!


What alternate reality are you living in?


Bitcoin is not susceptible to the attacks used against SolidCoin, both because of a lack of a centralized "trusted" nodes, and much higher computing power securing the network.

This is the same reason SC 2.0 will never go anywhere. We're banking on a universal human constant holding true here: Greed. No one with 13m premined coins will just 'throw them away' if sc 2.0 goes -anywhere-.

Checkmate '98   Thanks for making that so easy to communicate, now that you're on board as well.

1. I answered 1 in a previous reply.

2. Haha! Nice retort. Yes, a "no-trust-necessary" network is a nice ideal. However, you still have to trust Deepbit not to perform a 51% attack, trust Mt. Gox not to run away with your dollars, trust any retailers (if any existed) not to run away with your Bitcoin and trust your pool not to keep back some mined coins or merged mine without telling you. There is a lot of trust required to live and operate in the real world, even with Bitcoin, that's life I'm afraid... There is a slightly larger amount of trust required in SolidCoin, you're right, and it does differ from Bitcoin in that respect. Is that inherently a bad thing? I don't think so, you may disagree but everyone's entitled to an opinion.

If you want and need a "no-trust-neccessary" network: You already have one, it's called Bitcoin. Go use it to buy shit with, god knows nobody else is...

3. Sorry, but I don't recall saying that all of the new features brought by SolidCoin 2.0 were "amazing" or required an "amazing" programmer. Some of the smaller improvements like Multi-Wallet could and should have been introduced to the mainline Bitcoin client long ago as even a noob developer like Gavin should have been able to manage them. The fact is Bitcoin development is stagnant so you don't see any new features, "amazing" or otherwise.

I'm sorry to hear you don't like the GUI layout for the integrated miner, but do bear in mind that it was one improvement of many that were all developed in the space of 4 weeks. Now that the chain is up and running again RS is not under quite so much pressure to develop at incredible speed, so non-essential things like the GUI look and feel can be focussed on.

On a positive note, the development team is planning for Solidcoin to have a much improved integrated miner in a future version which will include hybrid GPU & CPU Mining all within the client! Pretty exciting stuff I think you'll agree and another world first

4. Ok, well you kind of just have to trust me on this one, it was an error. I'm really not sure what the project would have to gain by everyone thinking they had a lower hashrate than they really did? Certainly this was an embarrassing oversight for a coder of RealSolid's high caliber. You seem have a problem with the word and the concept of trust, so I doubt there's anything I can really say to make you believe that this wasn't a massive conspiracy to erm... trick people somehow?  

5. Sometimes people.. you know... talk to one another, share ideas and feelings and genuinely make a connection with one another. I know you'd rather live in a world where that didn't happen but we are in fact humans, not robots. RealSolid has chosen a few core supporters that he believes to be loyal to the project and given the trusted nodes to them. They have earned the trust of the project leader. So far it has been working perfectly.

Eventually, the fake coin trusted nodes will be replaced by genuine SolidCoin Millionaires. Will someone with a million real SolidCoins in a wallet wish to use their position as a Trusted Node to destroy the chain and make their million coins worth less (or indeed worthless)? Well we don't know that for sure, but we're banking on a universal human constant holding true here: Greed.

Greed is why the hackers restrict their attacks to alt chains. They own a lot of Bitcoins so, although they easily could, they don't attack Bitcoin directly and devalue their own asset (although they do stupidly attack the pools as "punishment" for adopting merged mining which is indirectly attacking Bitcoin itself ).

Someone with a large asset will typically do everything reasonable to protect it, and we expect that someone with that many coins will naturally want to run a trusted node to keep the network fast and secure and protect the value of their own coins, even though it is of no benefit to them directly.

1. Reasons like...?

2. "Best in Class" only because it is not in the same class as Bitcoin, as it is not a decentralized no-trust-necessary network.

3. Multi wallet: lol. It takes an amazing programmer to swap out berkley DB files by combo box selection... 51% protection comes at the cost of decentralization, faster confirmations is not a feature as the amount of computing power (and thus security) represented by it is smaller. I'll give you that the miner integration into the client is nice, but after playing with it, it seems very cluttered and bolted on after the fact.

4. Ah, assumptions, you know what they say, right? I actually develop software for a living, and while I understand bugs happen, the hash rate reporting "bugs" were far too convenient and do not seem like a coincidence.

5. They are not dead tokens, because a number of them every block are transferred to CoinHunter's "fund". Anyway, if they are dead, then how does that create an incentive for the controllers of the wallets to protect the network? His theory for trust is that those with a large amount of wealth can be trusted... if it's not real wealth, from where does that trust come?

1+2. Boring. This has been hashed out again and again. The source will be open soon and then we can finally stop talking about this. (yeah right  )

3. I'm glad you know about the 51% protection, it's one of the most important features of SolidCoin and something that no other coin has. I'm pleased you're paying such close attention to our little project But a scam? Care to back up that opinion with any evidence? Who is being scammed exactly?

Bitcoin had an integrated miner back in the CPU mining days, but it was removed when GPU mining came along and made CPU mining irrelevant, which was never Satoshi's plan, he never wanted coins to be exclusively mined by a select few with expensive GPU hardware. Solidcoin addresses this issue with aplomb.

Yes the "old idea" of faster confirmations has been taken into the next generation with SolidCoin, 6 confirms can take as little as 3 minutes. Nobody can claim to have invented the idea that faster = better, but everyone agrees that sending Bitcoins to someone and then having to wait 2-3 hours in some cases for the standard 6 confirms is much, much too slow.

4. Everyone makes mistakes my friend, even our dear leader. The reason SolidCoin 1.04 was discontinued has been discussed many times on these forums but I'll summarise the key events for you nonetheless:

- Solidcoin starts to gain significant traction, Bitcoin holders get VERY worried.
- RS starts issuing bounties for supporters to spread an article via social media about SolidCoin being "Ready for the Bitcoin Collapse", Bitcoin Holders get real mad.
- Artforz / BTCEX / some other trolls start to spam the chain with thousands of tiny transactions, effectively shutting down the chain with massive blocks
- RS codes and releases a hasty patch in a few hours which fixes the issue (1.03), but in doing so prevents large withdrawals from the exchanges
- RS codes and releases another patch which fixes the withdrawal issue (1.04)
- Solidcoin 1 back up and running and perfectly stable, but there is a chunk of very large blocks in the blockchain which bloats the database and slows down initial chain downloads, not ideal.
- BTCEX demonstrates a Bitcoin timewarp hack on GeistGeld and rewrites a portion of the GeistGeld blockchain.
- BTXEX issues a direct threat against SolidCoin, effectively stating that he will use this and other exploits present in Bitcoin to take down Solidcoin. At this time, Solidcoin 1.04 still has most of the Bitcoin code intact, so these threats were very credible.
- RS issues an request to exchanges, pools and users of SolidCoin to stop making any transactions after a certain block, as the chain is being shut down to prevent any damage from these attacks, and will be back soon with better attack protection, hopefully within 2 weeks.
- The vast majority of the users, pools and exchanges voluntarily comply and the chain is effectively "Stopped", while 2.0 is developed.
- 4 weeks later the world's most secure CryptoCurrency, Solidcoin 2.0, is launched.

5. OK I have to concede this one to you. The trusted node token coins could theoretically be used on the network by changing the code in more than half of the clients and more than half of the trusted nodes, yes. I guess how much you believe in SolidCoin depends on how likely / possible you think that scenario is. Personally, I would say it's theoretically possible but highly improbable.

1. Closed source - there are no good reasons in this situation. In the real world there are only business IP protection reasons (which aren't really well hidden by closed source anyway ... e.g. DVD keys, BluRay code and BluRay keys)

2. Yeah we keep hearing this over and over again and time keeps passing without it happening.
Either he's a shit programmer or he's stuck spending ages trying to hide the crap he put in there before.
I'm gonna love it if someone runs the new code with an empty block chain and finds it can't download it from the start

3. The 51% protection we already know about and is a scam.
Bitcoin had integrated miner in the client long ago but they removed it.
Faster confirmations? Oh that old idea?

4. So if this is nothing new for him, why did he totally f*ck it up with SC1.0 Everyone keeps ignore the fact that he's screwed up the previous version yet supposedly he has this long history of great software development ... what happened last time? Still haven't heard an answer to that one.

5. Absolute bullshit. Either they are zero, they can already be used, or they can be used by simply changing the code.
There is NO reason to generate a fake number of coins that can never be used coz that is NO different to generating none and would represent a mind numbingly stupid programming decision to create a large number of coins that can never be used since that would mean they represent absolutely nothing so they should be zero. That is seriously another decision that either shows he has no logical skill or the coins can be used or will be usable in the future.

I've numbered your points to make them easier to respond to, hope you don't mind

1. In this instance, yes. The initial release was closed source for many good reasons. Open source is coming very soon, watch this space!

2. Nope. But when the source comes out you can run a comparison with the Bitcoin code to see the incredible amount of work that RS has put in so far into making SolidCoin "Best in Class" for CrpytoCurrency!

3. Features like multi-wallet, 51% protection, integrated miner in the client, faster confirmations and so much more!

4. Proper testing as in Private beta followed by public beta followed by a full public release which happened at a scheduled, pre-announced time. You obviously haven't spent much time developing software or IT projects, no matter how much testing you do there are always defects in the live code, especially the first release. Good testing just tries to ensure that none of them are "show stoppers"

5. No, absolutely not. And just to clarify, the people who do have the trusted nodes were not given 1.2 million SC, they were given 1.2 million dead token coins which cannot ever be spent on the network. You will be able to verify this later when the source makes its grand debut appearance

Completely untrue, but then most of what you say turns out to be completely untrue so I trust that the other people reading this thread (those that aren't your multiple personalities anyway) won't believe any of that.

I can't prove that I didn't get a GPU mining client before anyone else (very hard to prove something that didn't happen), but some file you fabricated and stuck on Rapidshare is hardly proof of anything now is it? So it's my word against yours, and your track record for truth-telling isn't exactly stellar.

I will say this though, I sold the one single powerful GPU I bought for Bitcoin mining some time ago when the price crashed down from $8 to under $5 within the space of a couple of weeks. It had the stench of death about it so I sold up all my coins and got out. This was long before the SolidCoin chain re-opened. So, even if I did have this non-existant early GPU miner you're on about I would not have been able to do anything with it.

SC isn't going up in value.
SC wasn't mined by thousands of people.  A single botnet made up ~50% of hashing power and total network is <300 CPU.
SC isn't gaining hashing power its hashing power is declining.

So pretty much nothing you said was factual.

Secretive closed source is a better approach than open source? What?

Can you show me something similar to this for SolidCoin?


Features like...?

Proper testing, like...? How do you know that this is occurring? The entire development process is cloaked in secrecy. Also, proper testing doesn't lead to bugs which are fixed, then unfixed, then fixed again (hash rate reporting).


Please answer this question. Are you one of the few who were given 1.2 million SC and run a trusted node?

Nicely put.

SolidCoin isn't better than Bitcoin because it is going up in value faster than Bitcoin did, or because thousands of people mined it from the start instead of a handful, or even because it's gaining hashrate and users while Bitcoin is losing them.

These are all things that people like to fixate on but they aren't the real reasons why it's better.

It's better because of the approach that RealSolid is taking with the development. Adding new features that are actually useful, doing proper testing before releases, making plans to promote SolidCoin in the future, and so on.

A lot of people don't like him, I guess because he says bad things about Bitcoin and I guess because he always thinks he knows best? But I think he's a real cool guy who really seems to know what he's doing.

The only exchange rate that actually measures "readiness for the Bitcoin collapse" is SC2/BTC, not USD/BTC. If the Bitcoin collapse is because of an inherent problem with cryptocurrency, SC will fold too. If it's because of Bitcoin's decentralization, then the SC2/BTC exchange rate will go up.

There's no point in going back and fourth saying "look at the exchange NOW, bitches!" every time it goes one way or the other.

 

And you are proud of BTC for reaching $3 again? 

Yeah damn shame about that being back over $3 today ... ... ... ...

I.. I.. is that you, Britney?

All publicity is good publicity!

We'd much rather be hated than ignored.

Thanks for your continued interest and support

This release seems to be an exercise of "throw it against the wall and see if it sticks". If the technology and code was truly secure, there should have been no qualms about releasing the source code. Given that some of the licenses employed require such at a release it seems very suspect that none has occurred.

So far, it appears to me that SC2 is just a manually controlled block chain with one individual's finger on the killswitches. I presume this is so that Coinhunter could release a binary with the smallest chance that people will hack it. Perhaps later source will be released without some of the killswitches in order to lend credibility to the block chain. However, if a trusted node gets hacked and its private keys stolen the whole block chain is compromised. I wonder how long 12 relative novices at computer security can keep their "trusted nodes" 100% secure. Should be an interesting experiment.