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Topic: (SOLVED) BTC365.com SCAM me 20Mbtc - page 2. (Read 1045 times)

legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
September 19, 2021, 05:45:57 AM
#31
We have learned much from this incident and have patched our Customer Support process and Terms and Condition accordingly.
Huh
you are practically saying that from now on whoever uses your site and wins you will take the customer's money and will donate to charity, this is what you learned from this problem that you created yourself
From what btc365partners is saying here, they admit their Terms were insufficient. It's totally fine to adjust the Terms now, but they should honor their obligations from before the change too. Note that I didn't read the updated Terms, as it's irrelevant for this case, but I can't imagine any serious casino having Terms that give them the right to take a user's funds without even seeing the evidence.
full member
Activity: 840
Merit: 126
Welcome back 🙏
September 19, 2021, 05:43:47 AM
#30

Where is the evidence for all these accusations?

Just because my bets won do you draw those conclusions?

If the bets were losing even then you would have locked the account?
The obvious answer is no. Just because the bets won you decided to close the account and not pay the rest of the money.

AS I ALREADY SAID, YOURS SITE IS TOTAL SCAM

I'm afraid that's not true. You will find players who have won and withdrawn successfully. The only difference being they weren't flagged by either our or vendor compliance.



Again and again, accusations without any proof. You are probably trying to buy time to steal from more users.

In fact, "fraudulent activity" is yours and yours only.

I ask again from all forum members, pls support my flag to warn other users : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2835
I feel sorry for you bro i know how frustating it is when they reply you like with stupid reasons and dont give you your money.
I am totally with you and i am supporting you on this.
legendary
Activity: 3164
Merit: 1127
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
September 19, 2021, 05:36:12 AM
#29
We decided on an alternative which is to donate the full sum involved (20 mBTC) to a charity of the community's choosing. In addition, BTC365 will match this donation (another 20 MBTC) as a gesture of goodwill and gratitude. We put it to the community to come forward with up to two charity organizations to receive the donations.

It costs me a lot to believe that your site has people who think that way, money from someone who won by merit is not to be donated without permission from the winner, what you are doing is absurd.

We have learned much from this incident and have patched our Customer Support process and Terms and Condition accordingly.

 Huh

you are practically saying that from now on whoever uses your site and wins you will take the customer's money and will donate to charity, this is what you learned from this problem that you created yourself

BTC365 is committed to providing the best betting experience to our  players.

 Angry

We seek the community's understanding that we are unable to do business with syndicates, informed punters, or any party that enjoys an unfair edge over our normal customers.

syndicates?

informed punters?

what are you talking about? you retained the owner's fund using nonsensical argument that he was involved in abnormal activities
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
September 19, 2021, 04:36:05 AM
#28
Dear bitcointalk community, after discussing with our Sportsbook provider BTi, we were unable to get their cooperation to disclose their detection algorithms, even to just a select few reputable members of the community.
That means that you don't have any proof that anything was against your official rules, like it wasn't because there was no mention of word arbitrage there.

We decided on an alternative which is to donate the full sum involved (20 mBTC) to a charity of the community's choosing. In addition, BTC365 will match this donation (another 20 MBTC) as a gesture of goodwill and gratitude. We put it to the community to come forward with up to two charity organizations to receive the donations.
Is this a joke or are you serious?
You can donate to charity anytime, but you need to take your customers seriously and you can't confiscate other people coins like this.

That's all I needed to know, so Flag supported! I call for other DT-members to do the same after reviewing this case.
I am supporting the flag also.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
September 19, 2021, 02:55:33 AM
#27
Dear bitcointalk community, after discussing with our Sportsbook provider BTi, we were unable to get their cooperation to disclose their detection algorithms, even to just a select few reputable members of the community.
We decided on an alternative which is to donate the full sum involved (20 mBTC) to a charity of the community's choosing. In addition, BTC365 will match this donation (another 20 MBTC) as a gesture of goodwill and gratitude. We put it to the community to come forward with up to two charity organizations to receive the donations.

We have learned much from this incident and have patched our Customer Support process and Terms and Condition accordingly. BTC365 is committed to providing the best betting experience to our  players. We seek the community's understanding that we are unable to do business with syndicates, informed punters, or any party that enjoys an unfair edge over our normal customers.

@LoyceV we are holding the 20 mBTC. BTi is unable to disclose their detection algorithms, even in the presence of an NDA.
Thank you for posting your final "resolution" in which you confirm you have no evidence whatsoever for taking this oz.kashi's money. That's all I needed to know, so Flag supported! I call for other DT-members to do the same after reviewing this case.
This is why:
So to summarize: you took 20 mBTC from a user because of an unproven accusation of something that isn't forbidden by any of the rules.

Feedback added:
Quote
This casino took 20mBTC from a user based on what their sportsbook provider told them. They don't provide any evidence and they themselves haven't even seen the evidence.
What they accuse the user of also isn't forbidden by the rules.
I recommend not to deposit your money to this website.
legendary
Activity: 1820
Merit: 1207
September 18, 2021, 11:39:59 PM
#26
I don't think that's fair solution for the gambler and what does Bitcointalk to do with the 20 mBTC? this is case both of you and @oz.kashi not you and Bitcointalk.

The thing is @oz.kashi can provide his proof even in screenshot, but you failed to provide the proof of your casino provider detection algorithms. IMO you're still not a professional casino, but much rather an intermediary since you doesn't have full control over your casino.

Let's say another gambler made accusation against your casino with similar case, we will see a same excuse like this, no?
copper member
Activity: 66
Merit: 1
September 18, 2021, 11:23:53 PM
#25
Dear bitcointalk community, after discussing with our Sportsbook provider BTi, we were unable to get their cooperation to disclose their detection algorithms, even to just a select few reputable members of the community.
We decided on an alternative which is to donate the full sum involved (20 mBTC) to a charity of the community's choosing. In addition, BTC365 will match this donation (another 20 MBTC) as a gesture of goodwill and gratitude. We put it to the community to come forward with up to two charity organizations to receive the donations.

We have learned much from this incident and have patched our Customer Support process and Terms and Condition accordingly. BTC365 is committed to providing the best betting experience to our  players. We seek the community's understanding that we are unable to do business with syndicates, informed punters, or any party that enjoys an unfair edge over our normal customers.

@LoyceV we are holding the 20 mBTC. BTi is unable to disclose their detection algorithms, even in the presence of an NDA.
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 6
September 18, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
#24
Hi Bitcointalk, we have taken the feedback from some senior reputable members on the forum. We will be escalating the case to BTi for willingness to releasing information to a selected group of users. Should that be approved, we will then seek the community for a council to arbitrate. In the event that this is not possible, we will propose an alternative solution.

We have learnt much from this experience and will be updating our Terms & Conditions and Bet Limits to be more complete.

Buying more time?

You decided to close my account and take the money that is there. Only now do you need to contact the BTI in order to get a reason and explanation for the action you took?


SCAM SCAM SCAM

Its a pitty that all these new bookmakers are doing shady business and do not pay.
When does that stop?
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
September 17, 2021, 03:17:29 AM
#23
we have taken the feedback from some senior reputable members on the forum.
Any reason you ignore my questions?



9/13/2021 4:53:42 PM    password reset via email
member
Activity: 511
Merit: 11
September 16, 2021, 04:51:01 PM
#22
These conditions have no legal value. You must obtain a license from a country in the EU. So users will be able to file complaints. After you have been convicted several times they will take your license  Grin
copper member
Activity: 66
Merit: 1
September 16, 2021, 04:06:59 AM
#21
Hi Bitcointalk, we have taken the feedback from some senior reputable members on the forum. We will be escalating the case to BTi for willingness to releasing information to a selected group of users. Should that be approved, we will then seek the community for a council to arbitrate. In the event that this is not possible, we will propose an alternative solution.

We have learnt much from this experience and will be updating our Terms & Conditions and Bet Limits to be more complete.
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 3878
Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com
September 15, 2021, 09:48:49 AM
#20
The second deposit was before the  first withdrawal.

After the second withdrawal I go up in chat asking why the limit of bet go down for 12+- mbtc to 0.10 -+mbtc.

They told me that they will check it and meanwhile im invite to play in other sport section they have on site (btc sport)
 After 1 hour +- I got the email that I attached.
So once they limited your account you did not place any bet and the 20 mBTC was there which was unused.
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 3878
Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com
September 15, 2021, 09:43:44 AM
#19
Hello

As I remember ( I don’t have access to my account) I withdrawal in first time 90mbtc and 50 mbtc in second.

Total deposit were around 50-60 mbtc. I deposit twice too ass I remember.

For the withdrawal was one week difference and for withdrawal few days (Less then a week )

I place 2 bets between the withdrawal as far as I remember.

I don’t have bets that voided.

Again. I don’t remember all and it’s will be much easier if they will open the account and I will post everything.
I have nothing to hide.
The 2nd deposit was before the first withdrawal or in between the first and 2nd withdrawal or after the 2nd withdrawal?
Did you make any bet anything after the 2nd withdrawal and the amounts includ the 20mBTC you left, or it was excluding the 20mBTC?
hero member
Activity: 1064
Merit: 843
September 15, 2021, 09:36:36 AM
#18
Can someone bring me the dispute thread that was against sportsbet.io from a user called neymar20 or neymar30 (sorry, I do not remember the full username)? Thanks
Here sir [SCAM] Sportsbet.io (Withholding funds) [dispute settled] by neymarjr12
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 3878
Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com
September 15, 2021, 09:31:49 AM
#17
The number of bets I  placed won and I asked to withdraw money and the site made the withdrawal. I then placrd number of additional bets and noticed that the maximum bet in all games changed to a maximum of 0-1 Mbtc.
How much did you deposit?
How much did you win?
How much did you able to withdraw in total?
You withdrew twice, how many bets you placed between the first and second withdrawal?
The remaining 20mBTC, is it including the additional unsettle or void bets?

@btc365partners is this possible to remove the suspension of oz.kashi's account but limit everything so that he can not enter any data like placing any bet or withdrawing anything or even converting anything to another currency. I mean disable any kind of input from oz.kashi's side on the account. Or can you give us the answers of the above questions I asked with evidences. Please take note that screenshots are not good evidences. I may suggest doing a screencast while refreshing the page or anything else that will be more convincing to support your answer. If this is too much to expose in public, then:
1) Either find a way to disable the suspension of oz.kashi's account so that he can give us the answers with convincing evidences or
2) Chose few trusted users from this conversation, for example: LoyceV, me, dkbit98 etc. Please take their permission before you share the private information, as from my part you are more than welcome. If they give you permission, then share us the information in forum PM. Send the same PM at once to all of us.

Easier will be to lift the suspension of oz.kashi's and let him do this.


Can someone bring me the dispute thread that was against sportsbet.io from a user called neymar20 or neymar30 (sorry, I do not remember the full username)? Thanks
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
September 15, 2021, 06:28:36 AM
#16
I thought of another question for btc365partners: who has the 20 mBTC now? Is it you, who couldn't even verify BTi's claim, or is it BTi, who doesn't want to provide any evidence?

This is how you can make sure you can't ever be accused of confiscating funds for your own benefit:
I'm happy to donate at minimum the funds involved in this claim to a charity of the community's choosing.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
September 15, 2021, 04:53:15 AM
#15
Please find our BTi Sportsbook Rules here https://bti-io.gitlab.io/betting-rules/en/
Is this link also mentioned anywhere on your own site? I couldn't find it (but didn't want to create an account).

Hope you understand that we must act on abnormal or malicious activities in order to provide the best service and bonuses to ordinary members.
I hope you understand that without providing a single shred of evidence, this makes you look very bad.

Quote
Therefore, arbitrage betting is treated as a fraudulent activity, which leads to our course of action.
I don't want to read many pages of rules, but luckily bti-io.gitlab.io has a Search field. I tried the following keywords:
Code:
malicious
abnormal
arbitrage
contra
Results for all keywords: "No results found".

Quote
Please do refer to 10.1 in our Terms and Conditions https://www.btc365.com/help/terms
Neither your Terms nor BTi's Betting Rules mention anything about arbitrage betting.

So to summarize: you took 20 mBTC from a user because of an unproven accusation of something that isn't forbidden by any of the rules.
copper member
Activity: 66
Merit: 1
September 15, 2021, 04:50:34 AM
#14

Where is the evidence for all these accusations?

Just because my bets won do you draw those conclusions?

If the bets were losing even then you would have locked the account?
The obvious answer is no. Just because the bets won you decided to close the account and not pay the rest of the money.

AS I ALREADY SAID, YOURS SITE IS TOTAL SCAM

I'm afraid that's not true. You will find players who have won and withdrawn successfully. The only difference being they weren't flagged by either our or vendor compliance.

copper member
Activity: 66
Merit: 1
September 15, 2021, 03:49:53 AM
#13
Hi oz.kashi, our SOP is always to confirm the username of the member. You'll have experienced this in our CS as well, even though we should know your username given you are logged in. As you took some time to respond to us, probably due to timezone, we inferred your username from your bitcointalk user, and also your complaint time.
What's your SOP? What's your CS? Readers can guess, but shouldn't have to if you're more clear.

Quote
As mentioned, we froze your account on guidance of the sportsbook vendor you played on, BTi. BTi has gotten back to us; they flagged your account as you were detected as a sports arbitrager / movement better in a small league (you only bet on Israel leagues).
Your terms don't even mention arbitrage betting. It shows this:
Quote
9.10. When you place a bet you acknowledge that you have read and understood in full all of these Terms and Conditions and Sportsbook Rules regarding the bet as stated on the Website.
Can you point me to where to find the Sportsbook Rules?

Quote
While BTi won't share with us their exact rule set or algorithm used to classify you
This is how it looks to me: A user claims you scammed him for 20 mBTC, you don't dispute the amount, and instead hide behind a third party who can't tell you the reason either.

Quote
they are one of the better sportsbooks we've seen and hosted.
This statement means nothing to this case.

Hi LoyceV, it is still necessary for us to confirm a player’s username as he has not revealed it in any of his conversations. We will not assume the usage of forums username to be the same as there is a possibility of discrepancy.

Please find our BTi Sportsbook Rules here https://bti-io.gitlab.io/betting-rules/en/

Our focus on this case is not the amount, but on confirming that the user hasn’t been wrongly frozen. The reason for the account being frozen is due to username “ozkashi” has been detected as arbitrage / movement betting by our compliance team from our Sportsbook vendor BTi. In this case, BTi is insistent on their compliance guidance, even after we have spoken to them. Hope you understand that we must act on abnormal or malicious activities in order to provide the best service and bonuses to ordinary members. Beyond impacting the promotions we can run, the dividend pool that is available to every member also gets penalized as wins reduce dividends. While there will always be winners (as there should be), all members should play on the same edge and not enjoy an advantage over others, which happens in the case of arbitrage or contra betting.
Therefore, arbitrage betting is treated as a fraudulent activity, which leads to our course of action. Please do refer to 10.1 in our Terms and Conditions https://www.btc365.com/help/terms

For the point of having EV + Promotions, would you mean a promotion that is positive EV to the player? If yes, we do have such promotions. Please refer to our promotion "Get 50 - 150 Free Spins! Simply make a deposit! " However, the number may change based off a variety of factors (Total wagering, Bonuses claimed) such as the formula you use to calculate EV.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
September 14, 2021, 03:02:29 AM
#12
Hi oz.kashi, our SOP is always to confirm the username of the member. You'll have experienced this in our CS as well, even though we should know your username given you are logged in. As you took some time to respond to us, probably due to timezone, we inferred your username from your bitcointalk user, and also your complaint time.
What's your SOP? What's your CS? Readers can guess, but shouldn't have to if you're more clear.

Quote
As mentioned, we froze your account on guidance of the sportsbook vendor you played on, BTi. BTi has gotten back to us; they flagged your account as you were detected as a sports arbitrager / movement better in a small league (you only bet on Israel leagues).
Your terms don't even mention arbitrage betting. It shows this:
Quote
9.10. When you place a bet you acknowledge that you have read and understood in full all of these Terms and Conditions and Sportsbook Rules regarding the bet as stated on the Website.
Can you point me to where to find the Sportsbook Rules?

Quote
While BTi won't share with us their exact rule set or algorithm used to classify you
This is how it looks to me: A user claims you scammed him for 20 mBTC, you don't dispute the amount, and instead hide behind a third party who can't tell you the reason either.

Quote
they are one of the better sportsbooks we've seen and hosted.
This statement means nothing to this case.
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