Topic: Some statistics on welfare (Read 2519 times)

Quote from: InwardContour on June 30, 2014, 10:57:37 PM

If you count commuting time/costs, income taxes, and lost welfare benefits then a well paying job could potentially only pay someone ~$2 per hour in additional income above what they got before leaving the various welfare rolls.

Cost of living in developed countries is just too high... And that is probably unsolvable issue on short term, until global labour prices stabilise...

The issue is not the cost of living, the issue is that there are not enough incentives to find a job and work for your money. There are too many incentives to work off of other's money

This is a very interesting point as it appears that all these welfare and "social' programs really are nothing more then paid votes as they are given to lazy people by democrats who tend to vote more and will vote for democrats.

giveBTCpls

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How would welfare work in a Bitcoin society?
Let us imagine Bitcoin gets total mainstream approval and all fiat fail. BTC is now worldwide.
Who helps those that cannot work for X reasons if there are no fees to collect money from and help the unlucky?
Just imagine the amount of people out there that can't work for LEGIT reasons: Crippled people, schizophreniacs, chronic fatigue syndrom sufferers, multiple sclerosis.. the list goes on. Where is all that money going to come from in a tax free world? How can we trust private institutions to take care of this realistically? How can private institutions benefit from tons of people that can't generate any value in the market?

beetcoin

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oh boy, this topic is bound to incite some energy from the hard right on here. fucking obama, man.

InwardContour

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Quote from: InwardContour on June 30, 2014, 10:57:37 PM

If you count commuting time/costs, income taxes, and lost welfare benefits then a well paying job could potentially only pay someone ~$2 per hour in additional income above what they got before leaving the various welfare rolls.

Cost of living in developed countries is just too high... And that is probably unsolvable issue on short term, until global labour prices stabilise...

The issue is not the cost of living, the issue is that there are not enough incentives to find a job and work for your money. There are too many incentives to work off of other's money

transient858

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Quote from: InwardContour on June 30, 2014, 10:57:37 PM

If you count commuting time/costs, income taxes, and lost welfare benefits then a well paying job could potentially only pay someone ~$2 per hour in additional income above what they got before leaving the various welfare rolls.

Cost of living in developed countries is just too high... And that is probably unsolvable issue on short term, until global labour prices stabilise...

It is high in developed world because of bureaucracy and inefficiency in government sector.

tinof

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Quote from: InwardContour on June 30, 2014, 10:57:37 PM

If you count commuting time/costs, income taxes, and lost welfare benefits then a well paying job could potentially only pay someone ~$2 per hour in additional income above what they got before leaving the various welfare rolls.

Cost of living in developed countries is just too high... And that is probably unsolvable issue on short term, until global labour prices stabilise...

Too much wastage in government sector and they are being supported by private sector and taxpayer.

Ekaros

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Quote from: InwardContour on June 30, 2014, 10:57:37 PM

If you count commuting time/costs, income taxes, and lost welfare benefits then a well paying job could potentially only pay someone ~$2 per hour in additional income above what they got before leaving the various welfare rolls.

Cost of living in developed countries is just too high... And that is probably unsolvable issue on short term, until global labour prices stabilise...

InwardContour

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Quote from: Ekaros on June 30, 2014, 03:19:59 AM

Quote from: InwardContour on June 30, 2014, 12:45:55 AM

Quote from: Ekaros on June 30, 2014, 03:19:59 AM

The programs started with good intentions but the fraud rates are going up. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Free is a dangerous concept.

Any free food given to a country population for prolong period of time will destroy the country agriculture industry. Same with cloth and textile industry.

Short term assistance to relieve disaster is fine. Long term dependency will destroy the country population ability to stand on their own two legs.

There is no such thing as a free lunch (no pun intended)

When people are given "free" money for food or other forms of welfare it must be ultimately be paid for by other people.

...

Welfare is way to prevent crime and costs related to it. Other way is to not punish for petty theft, because lack of resources or waste lot more money for that punishment.
...

Welfare also prevents people from wanting to get a job in order to support themselves. Most people on food stamps remain on food stamps for at least 3 years. Most people on disability never look for a job again.

Real problem is that there just isn't options for everyone to provide for themselves at this time...

If you count commuting time/costs, income taxes, and lost welfare benefits then a well paying job could potentially only pay someone ~$2 per hour in additional income above what they got before leaving the various welfare rolls.

arbitrage001

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Quote from: Ekaros on June 30, 2014, 03:19:59 AM

Quote from: InwardContour on June 30, 2014, 12:45:55 AM

Quote from: InwardContour on June 30, 2014, 12:45:55 AM

The programs started with good intentions but the fraud rates are going up. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Free is a dangerous concept.

Any free food given to a country population for prolong period of time will destroy the country agriculture industry. Same with cloth and textile industry.

Short term assistance to relieve disaster is fine. Long term dependency will destroy the country population ability to stand on their own two legs.

There is no such thing as a free lunch (no pun intended)

When people are given "free" money for food or other forms of welfare it must be ultimately be paid for by other people.

And if people are truly desperate and they have options, they aren't going to quietly die of by hunger. They are going to take food or money from somewhere, this population is much smaller and heavier hit than if it was everyone.

Welfare is way to prevent crime and costs related to it. Other way is to not punish for petty theft, because lack of resources or waste lot more money for that punishment.

Real problem is that there just isn't options for everyone to provide for themselves at this time...

Charity and assistance should come from local community during hard time. If the whole community is being hit hard, then everyone should sit down and come up with a long term plan.

Ekaros

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The programs started with good intentions but the fraud rates are going up. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Free is a dangerous concept.

Any free food given to a country population for prolong period of time will destroy the country agriculture industry. Same with cloth and textile industry.

Short term assistance to relieve disaster is fine. Long term dependency will destroy the country population ability to stand on their own two legs.

There is no such thing as a free lunch (no pun intended)

When people are given "free" money for food or other forms of welfare it must be ultimately be paid for by other people.

And if people are truly desperate and they have options, they aren't going to quietly die of by hunger. They are going to take food or money from somewhere, this population is much smaller and heavier hit than if it was everyone.

Welfare is way to prevent crime and costs related to it. Other way is to not punish for petty theft, because lack of resources or waste lot more money for that punishment.

Real problem is that there just isn't options for everyone to provide for themselves at this time...

InwardContour

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Quote from: DrG on June 27, 2014, 03:43:48 AM

The programs started with good intentions but the fraud rates are going up. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Free is a dangerous concept.

Any free food given to a country population for prolong period of time will destroy the country agriculture industry. Same with cloth and textile industry.

Short term assistance to relieve disaster is fine. Long term dependency will destroy the country population ability to stand on their own two legs.

There is no such thing as a free lunch (no pun intended)

When people are given "free" money for food or other forms of welfare it must be ultimately be paid for by other people.

TECSHARE

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First Exclusion Ever

Unfortunately the math isn't adding up. If they're spending $75 billion on food stamps the money is being misappropriated on fraud or bureaucracy. Instead of issuing money, it would be cheap to drive door to door with cans of corn, peas, tuna, etc and deliver to hungry families. Now they give out plastic cards that are sold in alleyways and on craigslist to pay for drug habits.

Until recently guess who managed those cards... JP Morgan.

DrG

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Unfortunately the math isn't adding up. If they're spending $75 billion on food stamps the money is being misappropriated on fraud or bureaucracy. Instead of issuing money, it would be cheap to drive door to door with cans of corn, peas, tuna, etc and deliver to hungry families. Now they give out plastic cards that are sold in alleyways and on craigslist to pay for drug habits.

TECSHARE

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First Exclusion Ever

While I concede that the welfare system is heavily abused, the good it does far outweighs these issues as long as incentive to leave these programs is maintained. If you are really concerned about the fiscal health of the nation I suggest you take a closer look at the trillions of dollars stolen from our nation by banks. The welfare and entitlement programs are a DROP IN THE BUCKET compared to what banks have stolen from us all.

tooil

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Quote from: KonstantinosM on June 26, 2014, 04:36:08 PM

We're living in difficult times.

It's not a character flaw to go through tough times. Providing food and housing security for everyone would vastly improve conditions for everyone. It would certainly drop the crime rate.

We put people in impossible situations were it is hard to stay afloat. The minimum wage is a joke. The housing prices are also way inflated and with their inflation so is the taxation on the homes.

Housing has to go to a fair market price that allows everyone to live without working all day.
Employers have to pay their employees fair wages.
Everyone should share in society's wealth and everyone should have a place to call their own and the ability to get adequate nutrition regardless who they are.

Anything else is extra.

Why do we allow people to become homeless? And why have we created a situation where it is difficult for a person to build their own shelter without being regulated to hell?

Government can not manage resources more efficient than the private sector assuming there is no barrier of entrance.

Government sponsor enterprise is the reason why we have the housing mess today. And minimum wage discourage employer to hire worker.

You need to trace back the root cause rather than fixing the symptom.

KonstantinosM

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Life is a taxable event

We're living in difficult times.

It's not a character flaw to go through tough times. Providing food and housing security for everyone would vastly improve conditions for everyone. It would certainly drop the crime rate.

We put people in impossible situations were it is hard to stay afloat. The minimum wage is a joke. The housing prices are also way inflated and with their inflation so is the taxation on the homes.

Housing has to go to a fair market price that allows everyone to live without working all day.
Employers have to pay their employees fair wages.
Everyone should share in society's wealth and everyone should have a place to call their own and the ability to get adequate nutrition regardless who they are.

Anything else is extra.

Why do we allow people to become homeless? And why have we created a situation where it is difficult for a person to build their own shelter without being regulated to hell?

bryant.coleman

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Not much surprising. More than two-thirds of the Americans are non-Hispanic white, yet some 61% of the welfare recipients are non-white. And I was quite surprised at the Asian numbers also. It is quite high, proportional to their population. Angry

fdiini

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