Someone at FIFA/UEFA should do something about the referees - page 2.

rdluffy

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Quote from: Lucius on April 28, 2023, 09:22:38 AM

@rdluffy, If all the information is correct, then I am not surprised that the football referees at the world championships referee "catastrophically" and that before the start of the competition, everyone knows who will be the winner. When we look at the 2018 world championships in Russia, where the main character was the Argentinian who refereed the first match and the final (weird, isn't it?), and no one had heard of him before that. The final in which he did everything for the French to become champions was a steal in front of the eyes of the whole world.

Four years later, we all knew that Argentina would be the champion, and after three disallowed goals in the match against SA, there was no VAR for the Argentines until the end of the championship - not a single disputed event was checked. After all, I am surprised that the majority still think that sport is still sport, and not a rigged game in which luck is the smallest factor and money is the biggest.

I researched a little more and I believe that the values are very close, in other sites the values change a little more or less, but the average is the same.
The argentinian matches were "curious" in the last world cup, I also agree with you but this is almost impossible to prove, I find it very difficult to know who is honest and serious in FIFA after they discovered all those scandals

I don't know if you are following, but there is probably a big scandal happening about the Spanish championship involving Barcelona, it is worth reading and get even more angry:

Source and link to the news: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/04/football/uefa-president-aleksander-ceferin-barcelona-scandal-spt-intl/index.html

uneng

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There have been many cases of unfair or doubtful decisions by referees along the years in important games, including the World Cup. One of the most memorable one is the 2002's World Cup which is said to have favoured the host asian teams, Japan and South Korea. There was also the Cup where Maradona scored a goal with his hand (la mano de Dios), and the referee was fine with that.

That is not something which is going to disappear from soccer. Therefore, like in Cobra Kai series on an episode where the competition's referee was bribed by the Cobra Kai dojo, Daniel San told his dojo's fighters they should fight much better than the rivals, in a way it would be impossible for the referee to take the victory from them.

The same applies to soccer. The team can't rely on the referee to win. They must show much superior performance to not allow this kind of trickery to get the victory from their hands.

Negotiation

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The referee is the sole official to start and stop play during the match and take disciplinary action against the players. The referee has the power to advise any situation during the game if the ball goes over the line or in the playbook or if there is a violation of the rules. The remuneration of referees for their services depends on the league but FIFA/UEFA referees are selected based on their rank, progression and training methods and on their integrity. If not honest and fair there are many referees who sell to money and break the rules.

slapper

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Referees' poor calls might escalate things. Remember that they're trying their best. Making split-second decisions demands intellect and chutzpah when in authority. This reminds me of "it's the journey, not the destination." Isn't cheering for our teams more important than the game's outcome? Let's look at the big picture. How we handle life's challenges determines our legacy.

ethereumhunter

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In fact, using VAR and an honest referee can prevent cheating, but it will come back to the referee and the officer overseeing the VAR. And it seems that the referee who oversees the game has violated the rules. UEFA might do something like penalize the referee for being out of office for a period of time but will that prevent the same from other referees? I don't think so because this requires honesty from each referee and VAR officer to be able to give a fair and honest match to the audience.

swogerino

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Quote from: Bananington on April 28, 2023, 06:22:36 PM

Quote from: swogerino on April 27, 2023, 05:13:32 PM

Should UEFA do something about the referees,these guys have everything in their hand and can make the game go any result..

If UEFA or any other body that is associated with referees decide to begin to discipline and institute strict career deciding punishment for referees who decide to make biased decisions, other referees will sit up and be more conscious of the decisions they take in any game that they are the main referees. The cases of referees in the game who are supposed to be making correct decisions but making wrong decisions is becoming so much, something really needs to be done.

With this post you reminded me of that referee in 2002 from a South American country which made sure South Korea beat Italy 3-0 thanks to him in that distant World Cup of 2002 which was being held in Japan and S.Korea but FIFA soon after decided to ban him after all activities of football including being a referee in his home country after seeing those horrendous mistakes which many thought were intentional as he was bought by S.Korea and this type of action should be still implemented in referees making clamorous mistakes and for me this should start from Spain as there the referees are making massacre after massacre in making bad calls.

Solosanz

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Quote from: Hispo on April 28, 2023, 04:46:48 PM

Perhaps in the future FIFA/UEFA could apply an artificial intelligence to perform as a referee instead a human being. It is something which could get rid of the human mistakes and the influence of bribery, but I doubt it could become a thing in the mid term, since I am sure the referees would not feel very happy about it.

I'm not saying this is bad, but this will make the decision is unbiased because the decision is come from the same system, not like human where each of them has their own opinion.

Any player need to careful enough because there's no mercy when the ball touch your hand, it will benefited for the opponent team because they will either get free kick or penalty. There's always a player will find a loophole and AI has no way to determine it since they're programmed and no way to determine case by case basis.

Silberman

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Quote from: rdluffy on April 27, 2023, 05:22:25 PM

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I think that soccer should urgently review the offside rule and eliminate it, for me it no longer makes sense to have this rule

I know the offside rule is not popular as it is probably one of the rules which is the most often applied during a match and it is often the one that causes the most controversy, but if the rule was eliminated then there will always be a striker right in front of the goalkeeper just waiting for the ball to come to him and try to get an easy score, such a change on the rule will change soccer forever, so I would prefer if the rule remained in place to keep the spirit of the game intact.

alegotardo

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Quote from: rdluffy on April 27, 2023, 05:22:25 PM

It is very frustrating to be winning a bet for a few seconds or minutes but then lose quickly.
By the VAR we can see that he was a little offside, unfortunately, it seems a few centimeters (I believe about 10 centimeters max), it would be impossible to get this offside without VAR, but I understand your feeling, even with the VAR it's difficult to define the exact moment when the player hit the ball to consider offside.
I think that soccer should urgently review the offside rule and eliminate it, for me it no longer makes sense to have this rule

I hope you didn't lose too much money on that bet swogerino

This question of actually eliminating the impediment is something that generates a lot of controversy.

I am in favor of abolishing this, or at least doing some tests in friendly games without the offside rule.
Just to base it on... until 1998 hockey also had an offside, but later it was removed from the rules and approved by several players and fans.

Eliminating the offside would certainly make the game more dynamic, without the frustrating moves in which players are postponing the ball pass to the attack and delaying lateral throws, for example. I believe that even injuries could be reduced if players didn't have to worry about maintaining an "imaginary line" that cannot be crossed.

VAR could also focus on other more controversial moves and paralyze the game less instead of spending 5 minutes or much more analyzing an offside move.

Bananington

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Quote from: swogerino on April 27, 2023, 05:13:32 PM

Should UEFA do something about the referees,these guys have everything in their hand and can make the game go any result..

If UEFA or any other body that is associated with referees decide to begin to discipline and institute strict career deciding punishment for referees who decide to make biased decisions, other referees will sit up and be more conscious of the decisions they take in any game that they are the main referees. The cases of referees in the game who are supposed to be making correct decisions but making wrong decisions is becoming so much, something really needs to be done.

serjent05

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Quote from: swogerino on April 27, 2023, 05:13:32 PM

The referees are an integral part of any game I know this but tonight happened something unique and very strange,Southampton lost my bet because of VAR as I had both teams to score,the same with Athletic Bilbao as I had it both teams to score and in both cases the referees impacted the game,somewhat more in La Liga in Spain but I had really nice tickets with many other games that were lost only because of the referees wrong decisions regarding me as I saw the game and I think you cannot disallow 2 goals when the cases were to say the least doubtful.

The commission should do something in case referees shown biased calls. For the integrity of sporsts, the commission should always be ready to replace any referee that shows some proof of cooking games (fixing) and penalized that referee. Sometimes when games like this where referee obviously making wrong calls makes me think that the commission is part of the rigging and that they tasks these referees to take charge.

Quote from: swogerino on April 27, 2023, 05:13:32 PM

Should UEFA do something about the referees,these guys have everything in their hand and can make the game go any result and I will say again that famous saying from a local coach where I live as he were leading the first place and lost against last place at home,in the end of the game he said explicitly (With this referee even Brazil could not win tonight)?

The UEFA must be strict with referees because as I stated, the integrity of sports heavily relies on these people's hands.

AmoreJaz

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Quote from: Hispo on April 28, 2023, 04:46:48 PM

Perhaps in the future FIFA/UEFA could apply an artificial intelligence to perform as a referee instead a human being. It is something which could get rid of the human mistakes and the influence of bribery, but I doubt it could become a thing in the mid term, since I am sure the referees would not feel very happy about it.

Also, the artificial intelligence could take those decisions faster, using several angles of the cameras to determine which team is committing a fault without preferences. Wink

as referees know they are closely filmed and the technology today is more advanced, i believe they will also make sure not to commit mistakes. because one big mistake, it can ruin their career.
AI can be used to assess the game for now, but using them as referees may still not be on the way. how can they be used on the middle of the field or should i say referee on the middle of the field?

Docnaster

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Quote from: rdluffy on April 27, 2023, 05:22:25 PM

I don't know yet about the match of Athletic Bilbao (I'll check later), but about the Southampton, I saw on ESPN and the VAR helped the referee
Check:

Source

It is very frustrating to be winning a bet for a few seconds or minutes but then lose quickly.
By the VAR we can see that he was a little offside, unfortunately, it seems a few centimeters (I believe about 10 centimeters max), it would be impossible to get this offside without VAR, but I understand your feeling, even with the VAR it's difficult to define the exact moment when the player hit the ball to consider offside.
I think that soccer should urgently review the offside rule and eliminate it, for me it no longer makes sense to have this rule

I hope you didn't lose too much money on that bet swogerino

When VAR was newly introduced, I was somewhat happy that it will address some human errors which sometimes are deliberate either purported by the refrees or as conspired by the authority who already had arrange a particular league or cup in such a way that will generate income for them. Such as the world cup between Brazil Ronaldinho against Ghana which Ronaldinho score with a clear offside.
But now I have realised that even with VAR a match can be fixed against you. In the worse scenario, the VAR officials will not summon the refree and they will be it.
Again the refrees doesn't face much consequences even when they make wrong decisions.

Hispo

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Perhaps in the future FIFA/UEFA could apply an artificial intelligence to perform as a referee instead a human being. It is something which could get rid of the human mistakes and the influence of bribery, but I doubt it could become a thing in the mid term, since I am sure the referees would not feel very happy about it.

Also, the artificial intelligence could take those decisions faster, using several angles of the cameras to determine which team is committing a fault without preferences. Wink

goaldigger

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Quote from: KTChampions on April 28, 2023, 10:13:20 AM

I don't think it's right to link the referee's possible mistakes to the fact that they negatively affected your bets. At least it hints that you are biased Wink

I think that those who bet on BTTS No did not see any problems at all in these decisions. In general, I agree that judges make mistakes even with VAR, but at the moment it seems to me that the number of mistakes has decreased if we compare with the pre-VAR era.

Compare before yes, but it looks like we are going back to that era.
There’s a lot of miss calls not just on that match, you can also see the problem with some referees. Well, this is not just in FIFA/EUFA, its also happening in other sports, only if there’s a big penalty for every missed calls, referees should held accountable for that. They are expected to do their job at the highest professionalism, but it looks like they are being carried away by their emotions as well.

QueenVera

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I don't see anything so hard with the referees and and I don't see any reasons to be scared of them and most times I think the audience have more opinion in decision making rather than just thinking so less of them and currently now i see no reason why we should be scared or think so much negative of the referees when we know that their decisions are mostly based on clear interpretation from the audience and what they're are shown on the screen in cases when a. Lead vision is needed to make a precise location.
I also understand that the referees have alot of hands in a match and I believe that most of this international refeers wouldn't want to risk their reputation for just a days meal.

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Referees and the associated VAR team have often been discussed in the football world, but I don't think it will change in the end. It is not always fair and good what the VAR makes for decisions, but in total it has become fairer I think. But now the referee's interpretation is still an important factor. I think the VAR should only be used for measurable points, now it seems that the VAR is really consciously looking for problems on the field. But the game is also often stopped unnecessarily and for a long time, I think the fun in football used to be more fun. But what about the offside rule Grin

Oneandpure

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Quote from: Distraction on April 28, 2023, 11:36:43 AM

First of all I must admit a fact that VAR technology has dropped the number of mistakes to a much lower level compared to the past. Because before this technology we have all witnessed referees making unbelievable mistakes so many times. Maybe it was many years ago but I still don't forget a very clear goal not being counted in a World Cup match despite the ball's passing the goal line clearly.

However VAR usage is still not very efficient nowadays indeed. Sometimes I even see referees not even checking VAR although there is most probably a mistake in their decision. Maybe it is due to VAR referees' not doing their job nicely in those times I don't know. I don't want to tag those matches as "fixed" directly of course. But I also agree that this situation can be bettered.

I agree with your opinion about how VAR effective dropped many mistake on every football games, indeed have little mistake on some games I don't think its mistake with VAR and depend on referees its worth for checking VAR or not when have crucial moment. Since VAR was introduced, there are no more diving moments for players in the penalty box, this is one of the advantages for the referee, besides that offside cases are also more effective and VAR currently only takes a few seconds to find out when a player is caught offside or not.

I think VAR has contributed quite a bit at the moment in football matches, especially when decisions are made quite quickly at this time and there are no long pauses in a football match.

Distraction

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First of all I must admit a fact that VAR technology has dropped the number of mistakes to a much lower level compared to the past. Because before this technology we have all witnessed referees making unbelievable mistakes so many times. Maybe it was many years ago but I still don't forget a very clear goal not being counted in a World Cup match despite the ball's passing the goal line clearly.

However VAR usage is still not very efficient nowadays indeed. Sometimes I even see referees not even checking VAR although there is most probably a mistake in their decision. Maybe it is due to VAR referees' not doing their job nicely in those times I don't know. I don't want to tag those matches as "fixed" directly of course. But I also agree that this situation can be bettered.

FatFork

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Losing a bet due to a referee's call can be a tough pill to swallow, especially if it feels like a questionable decision. But let's be real, making split-second decisions under intense pressure is no easy task. That's why we have VAR technology to assist referees in making the right call. Now, imagine if the shoe were on the other foot. What if you had bet on there being fewer than two goals and the referee let them slide despite an offside position? How would that make you feel?

I get that you had a stake in this, but it's important to consider all perspectives, not just your own.

Topic: Someone at FIFA/UEFA should do something about the referees - page 2. (Read 453 times)