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Topic: someone fucked up and lost ALOT of money (Read 30501 times)

member
Activity: 86
Merit: 26
March 31, 2024, 03:08:11 PM
I didn't really want to be a thread corpse abuser and bring up this old thread, but I stumbled across it by chance. If you look at the coins that have been consigned to the afterlife

2609.36304319 BTC

it's pretty painful at today's market value.

BTC price
2024, 31th March (Sunday) 18:49 UTC

= 70,498 USD

2609 * 70498 = 183,929,282 USD

They f*cked up over 183 million $
***LOL***  Shocked Cool Grin Cheesy

Possibly, but just as likely they would have long ago spent the full 26k on a slice of pizza  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 731
Bitcoin g33k
I didn't really want to be a thread corpse abuser and bring up this old thread, but I stumbled across it by chance. If you look at the coins that have been consigned to the afterlife

2609.36304319 BTC

it's pretty painful at today's market value.

BTC price
2024, 31th March (Sunday) 18:49 UTC

= 70,498 USD

2609 * 70498 = 183,929,282 USD

They f*cked up over 183 million $
***LOL***  Shocked Cool Grin Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
November 11, 2014, 11:00:16 PM
In light of recent developments at Mt. Gox, this thread is worth a revisit.  How many more coins were lost this way?


Yes - thanks for digging this one out and sharing - it makes very interesting reading, especially, of course, in the light of what has happened in the last couple of weeks.

I didn't grasp the finities of the coding issues (not my field  Wink Cheesy etc) though I believe I did get the gist - but FWIW I've got to agree with one of the later posts that was made around 2.5 years back now :-



Maybe MagicalTux should try to get some insurance against fuckups like this. Might be expensive and put a lot of hassle on him by ways of auditor wanting to see all code pre-production Wink


is the whole bitcoin thing just a long con? The legal system needs to get a lot more responsive as many  of the 10billion world population will deduce that fucking people over and steeling their money is fine...right now the good guys have to do something as these criminals seem to think they can hide behind lawyers and Magic it all away.

I lost money on Gox and quite a lot regarding bitcoin is full of fraud and the public need protecting .

Let's see Gox 2.0 with full reconstituted creditors who are not anonymous.

This post thread seems to justify the whole long con mirage of cryptographic digital currency .




Most jobs are obsolete already, that's where the con is,
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
February 28, 2014, 06:01:05 PM
In light of recent developments at Mt. Gox, this thread is worth a revisit.  How many more coins were lost this way?


Yes - thanks for digging this one out and sharing - it makes very interesting reading, especially, of course, in the light of what has happened in the last couple of weeks.

I didn't grasp the finities of the coding issues (not my field  Wink Cheesy etc) though I believe I did get the gist - but FWIW I've got to agree with one of the later posts that was made around 2.5 years back now :-



Maybe MagicalTux should try to get some insurance against fuckups like this. Might be expensive and put a lot of hassle on him by ways of auditor wanting to see all code pre-production Wink



sr. member
Activity: 394
Merit: 250
February 28, 2014, 04:34:09 PM
In light of recent developments at Mt. Gox, this thread is worth a revisit.  How many more coins were lost this way?

Maybe this helps.
It seems MtGox made a mistake somewhere.
Quote
that's a problem, but not the worst problem we ever faced
all the broken withdraws have been re-issued
just spent one week of BTC-only income
MagicalTux is a dev of MtGox.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
December 14, 2011, 02:15:20 PM

Maybe MagicalTux should try to get some insurance against fuckups like this. Might be expensive and put a lot of hassle on him by ways of auditor wanting to see all code pre-production Wink


500k BTC are uninsurable, because it is practically impossible to replace them once lost.

Really?  It seems just the opposite to me.  BTC are completely fungible.  The insurer would simply needs to buy them in...or mine them.  It would only be impossible to insure, say, 22x10^6 BTC.

It might be quite expensive to insure high quantities since the actuaries would need to consider the cost of buying them in.  I, for instance, can be shaken from my position by an offer which in excess of 'parity'.  'parity' to me is roughly 1kg of gold per BTC which makes the math easier Smiley

donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
December 14, 2011, 11:22:25 AM

Maybe MagicalTux should try to get some insurance against fuckups like this. Might be expensive and put a lot of hassle on him by ways of auditor wanting to see all code pre-production Wink


500k BTC are uninsurable, because it is practically impossible to replace them once lost.

Irreplaceable items are insured all the time.  Artwork, pro-athletes legs, one of kind diamonds, etc.

The larger issue w/ insuring Bitcoin losses would be the inability to verify they really are lost.  Not so much in this case but if coins were sent to a wrong but valid address w/ no private key (or wallet/backups were corrupt, lost, etc) it is impossible to verify the coins are really lost.
hero member
Activity: 1036
Merit: 502
December 14, 2011, 11:10:01 AM

Maybe MagicalTux should try to get some insurance against fuckups like this. Might be expensive and put a lot of hassle on him by ways of auditor wanting to see all code pre-production Wink


500k BTC are uninsurable, because it is practically impossible to replace them once lost.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
November 06, 2011, 09:13:33 PM
#99
...
So people might come up with the idea of proxying this decision-making. This might put the decision-making into too few hands, of course, and all the decentralization is down the drain.

I don't think this is a good idea, therefore.
...

In a way, this has already happened.  Surely the three (or so) largest pools already constitute exactly what you have described.

True. I think this is not a good situation.

I've seen in other threads that some people think mining in a bigger pool is more profitable. Pretty sad... there's so many small pools that'd deserve to become medium-sized.
vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
November 05, 2011, 06:11:12 PM
#98
...
So people might come up with the idea of proxying this decision-making. This might put the decision-making into too few hands, of course, and all the decentralization is down the drain.

I don't think this is a good idea, therefore.
...

In a way, this has already happened.  Surely the three (or so) largest pools already constitute exactly what you have described.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
November 05, 2011, 05:34:00 PM
#97
Thanks for the excellent insight on this, genjix. Deflation through attrition.
Only thing is since you posted, the market's gone back down to nearly what it was before the incident.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
November 01, 2011, 08:36:07 AM
#96
Ultimately these coins are gone. Since more coins have been mined since then, any work to evict the transaction from the blockchain would do more damage to miners.

Imagine this were 500000 BTC and every MtGox user were at risk of a major loss. (which would certainly hit the news and damage the community).

A feature that allowed a miner to vote out a block or a transaction would be valuable. If 50%+ did it, the error would simply vanish. Democracy at work. But it would only work if that 50% voted immediately.

It's highly improbably that 50% would be able to evaluate the matter at hand and make that decision within the timeframe that allows to "undo" this without too much damage (blocks mined after questionable block).

So people might come up with the idea of proxying this decision-making. This might put the decision-making into too few hands, of course, and all the decentralization is down the drain.

I don't think this is a good idea, therefore.

Maybe MagicalTux should try to get some insurance against fuckups like this. Might be expensive and put a lot of hassle on him by ways of auditor wanting to see all code pre-production Wink
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
November 01, 2011, 08:25:49 AM
#95
Or it sounds like the mainline client does validation of the protocol message.  Perhaps this could be broken out into a library that everyone could use to validate the protocol message before it was sent?

No, it's not a flaw. You can read the chatlog I pasted on page 2 for more information why.

Must've been quite exhausting to keep arguing for such a long time with the guy that just seemed to refuse to even consider your viewpoint. I really admire your patience there, genjix.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1076
November 01, 2011, 04:30:05 AM
#94
Also, (reading the same webpage I saw the OP_FALSE on) I do see that a number of commands were disabled "for security reasons", so there already are plenty of eyes ensuring that malicious scripts can't crash the blockchain.  The disabled commands are described as: 4 commands to split or combine strings, 4 bitwise operations, and 7 commands that multiply or divide numbers.

There's a Solver in the code that matches transactions to only 2 allowed templates/formats. Without passing this template, transactions cannot make it into the memory pool and don't get propagated.

If you wish to make a new tx type you have to lobby for it to be included in the list of templates.
newbie
Activity: 44
Merit: 0
October 31, 2011, 11:12:04 PM
#93
Also, (reading the same webpage I saw the OP_FALSE on) I do see that a number of commands were disabled "for security reasons", so there already are plenty of eyes ensuring that malicious scripts can't crash the blockchain.  The disabled commands are described as: 4 commands to split or combine strings, 4 bitwise operations, and 7 commands that multiply or divide numbers.
donator
Activity: 826
Merit: 1060
October 31, 2011, 04:53:24 AM
#92
All Turing-complete scripts must be invalid...
Bitcoin scripts do not form a turing complete language (there's no loop or "goto"), so the question doesn't arise.

[edit: this was a deliberate design decision by Satoshi]
sr. member
Activity: 303
Merit: 251
October 31, 2011, 02:35:35 AM
#91
Thanks for the excellent insight on this, genjix. Deflation through attrition.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1001
Let the chips fall where they may.
October 31, 2011, 01:04:41 AM
#90
There is some discussion about having miners reject bad transactions.  Wouldn't that just cause a huge split in the network if only half the people upgraded the client and then that happened?

Client doesn't have anything to do with miners.
Miners already can include or reject any transaction for any reason.

Each miner (or pool) decides which transactions (if any) to include in the block they are hashing.

You two are talking about two different things. Miners are allowed to exclude any transactions they want, but they all have to agree on which transactions are valid.

Currently, most miners reject most turing-complete strange scripts, but still accept the full set of op-codes as valid. This is important because each miner must verify the validity or every transaction in the block-chain. For example a rogue miner generating a block with a 100BTC coin creation transaction will be ignored by the honest nodes.

TL:DR: Even if we wanted to prohibit coin destruction (I did not know it was unambiguously possible), it would create a split in the block-chain.

PS: I am still of the opinion that the protocol is essentially untouchable at least until the block-reward drops. What part of "experimental currency" don't people understand? We have to expect a few "flaws". Those flaws will be easier to interpret if we don't monkey with the experiment.

Edit: All Turing-complete scripts must be invalid. Else all miners would stall on the first endless loop included in the block-chain. Currently, "strange" transactions are transactions other than: tranferring a coin from one (set of) address to another, and coin creation.
hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 1009
October 30, 2011, 09:29:22 PM
#89
It would be nice if there was something that let novice bitcoin programmers know if they were doing something (possibly) stupid.  I know, I know, don't hire stupid programmers, but let's step into the real world.  Not everyone is going to be a bitcoin pro from the offset.  There's no need to punish users of a poorly programmed service if we can do something to help these programmers learn...

I understand the level some of you guys are at, but not everyone starts there.

That is why you do test runs of your scripts/programs before releasing them into the wild. This is something several "exchanges" have now failed to do correctly and in turn got punished for it.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
October 30, 2011, 09:20:01 PM
#88
Thanks for the contribution (destroy ). Grin
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