Topic: Sonny Vleisides (Butterfly Labs CEO) 2014 Court Transcript [The TL/DR version] (Read 13157 times)

Case details

See ya later Colin!

Have fun!

Now back to the main theme of this little internet syposium!

Any ieas what to do about BFL and Sonny besides sit back and wait for the court dockets to count down?

Hearts and kisses to you too. Good-bye!

Go start your own thread please

And Good Morning to you there, Colin!

I see you're in fine form so you must have eaten your Cheerios!

One thing though, you're really supposed to put milk on them, not whiskey or beer.

Only real men put whiskey or beer on their Cheerios.

This makes more sense.

I too wondered if his technique wouldn't backfire and actually help BFL.

Given the recent shady behavior of the Marketing group for BFL and what they did with "buttcoins".... am I putting on my tinfoil hat when thinking that the real LostDutchman could have sold his account to the BFL marketing group and now they are attempting to pull in funds for a positive marketing campaign using bitcointalk forum users funds and then later blaming things on technical issues with the software/proxies not working correctly and not making enough posts, resulting in a positive SEO campaign for BFL  

 

I have no "pent up hate and anger".

How "liberal" and poitically correct of you to suggest that going after a bunch of bottom feeding, scumbucket liars, robbers, theives, con men and crooks is an indicator of having "pent up hate and anger"!

I like that.

Pussified but original.

I am not "attacking" anyone; I have only replied reasonably and rationally to criticisms of my plan.

If there is no community support I will do nothing.

Nothing at all and BFL can go right on robbing, deceiving and stealing from both current and future members of the crypto community, continuing with the wild abandon it is engaging in now.

Won't be my problem.

Should that turn out to be the case, have fun in the courts; you'll certainly be there long enough, so you'd better learn to like it.

In the meantime of course, nothing at all will be done to "encourage" BFL to start refunding before the money is hidden andrtuns out.

In the meantime those owned money, who desperately need those funds returns will just have to suck it up.

I'll make my decision soon.

Have a nice day now, ya hear?

LostDutchman, If you get the money and donations to fund your campaign then you are free to do as you please of course. But what happens if you don't get the funding? Are you going to do anything? or nothing at all? There's a lot of words spoken on this page about what "is going to be done to BFL". But words are different from actions. I personally disagree with your method for the record, but again, you are free to do as you wish.

Please stop being so defensive and stop attacking others who even slightly disagree with you. It's making you look bad. You seem to be one big ball of pent up hate and anger and it's tiresome to read over and over.

My OP was made to provide the facts of the court case and to allow the user to decide for themselves what to think about BFL.

So again, what happens if you don't get the funding to do your plan?

If I get enough support rom the community, if the community decides what it is willing to do to get BFL to start refunidng it will indeed get what it deserves and it will come right out of their deep pockets before the money is gone.

The clock is running.

The Dutchman.

I dunno man, these types of blackhat techniques have worked in the past but I am not optimistic with this working today.

Clogging up an inbox isn't as easy as it once was, there are many rules that could be created to block out or move these types of emails to their own folder... most of them are going to be people screaming 'stop posting' or would contain words like 'forum' & 'post' & 'stop', etc. They would be able to filter out a good chunk of the complaints generated from these posts.

In an extreme case, they could create a contact form on the website as the only method to contact them and block all emails to their direct inbox, of course while still specifically allowing frequent domains they communicate with directly to their inbox.

IMO, I see a lot of potential failure points in your plan, although I do agree that it could potentially lower their search rankings because most search engine bots out there do not like this type of post spamming, but your also increasing the amount of times butterflylabs is mentioned across many many sites on the internet, so I feel like it could be a double-edged sword. I would also think a lot of forum mods/admins would be removing these posts before search engines even cared about them?

In any case, I do hope BFL gets what they deserve.

Sigh.

I have tweeted a warning about the BFL scam to my Brazilian followers (if there are still any active ones), with links to this thread and the "20 million mail fraud" thread.  That is the kind of appropriate action anyone can take to help.

Spamming the BFL inbox is sort of OK, but will only give them an excuse to ignore client emails. 

Pestering CoinDesk, the Bitcoin Foundation, and other bitcoin outfits that are guilty by their silence on the matter would only be fair, and may be more effective.

But mass spamming other sites and people who have nothing to do with bitcoin or BFL is a terrible idea.  Add up the time spent by users and admins of all the sites you intend to spam, and it will easily be more than the amount BFL owes, and certainly much more than what they are likely to return as a result of this campaign (which is quite probably zero).

It is not a matter of "keeping the high moral groud in the fight against BFL": people who do that sort of thing for that sort of motive are scumbags, no matter what their grievances are.

(And, since I or my employer may end up being a target of that spamming, of course I have all the right to complain here.)

From website:

There is no way to launch a campaign/attack like this against BFL and not punish them in some way.

Regardless, I am curious what else would be contained in these millions of posts besides contact info?  would this be BFL bashing posts or BFL loving posts (to make it appear like BFL).  If bashing, most are not going to believe its BFL making the posts.  If its 'BFL is the greatest' types of posts, wouldn't this just help them with SEO, publicity, and possibly sales?

I am also not entirely sure about the anticipated meltdown of ISP's and Forum mods. Do you realize how many emails it would take for an ISP to feel the need to go in and block email addresses. And even if they did, it would probably be temporary. These would be legitimate complaint emails in your scenario - not necessarily something ISP's or spam filters would even care about.  

BFL will quickly change its number and invalidate your posts and if the emails overwhelmed them, I wouldn't doubt seeing them change their domain from butterflylabs to BFL-labs.com or just changing their email aliases entirely and then making an announcement about hackers trying to attack them, etc, etc. and play the pity card. Again, invalidating all of the prior posts with old contact info. They are not just going to sit down and say "ah, they got us".  You would need to continually do something like this for a long time to really have any type of impact, and I don't really see it being a business-crippling impact.

I would also think this type of campaign (or attack) would really just cause more people to look into who/what BFL is (especially if they know nothing about Bitcoin)... and I am not sure BFL is the best company I want people researching when they first learn about what Bitcoin is - not the best example.  

One thing I notice whch permeates all threads concering the BFL scam and that is "punishment" for BFL.

Punishment for BFL, its workers, shills anad associates is not on my agenda at all right now.

"Punishment" will be handed down by the courts.............................eventually.

I am not saying that BFL should not be punished but for the moment, let's get our priorities in order.

My goal is to force BFL to start issuing refunds where there is still money to refund.

Most who talk about punishment have made the issue a personal one.

Neither my partners nor myself have a single Satoshi, not a single dollar, not one thin dime and not one red cent at stake in this matter, having gotten our Minirig refunds some time back.

My goal is to make BFL's life so miserable that they beg me to stop and with the support of the community, I can indeed do that.

The lawsuits are going to take months, if not years to force an action and by that time, BFL will have had time to move assets, disguise wallets, spend down the corporate treasury and have things set up just right for a bankruptcy, which most likely would be what we in certain businesses call a "Straight Fuck You!, which means "The money is gone, we fucked up, we're broke, so have a nice day!"


I've see int before and so have you.

Terrahash come to mind?

We can't stop BFL from doing a Terrahash but we can maybe make all their lives miserable enough to force them into beginning refunds.

This aint' personal.

It's just business.

The Dutchman.

No.

Overloading their email box, melting down their phone system, causing a serious drop in SERPS and couple of other nifty effects will go a long way towards getting their attention. My  plan would cripple thier ongoing ability to do business.

LD, spam and that kind of pressure IMHO will give nothing. BFL should be punished legally as a company and in persons both. I more like the professor's approach though it is very first of steps what community could do. BFL took out very much of resources which could develop bitcoin industry and community too and should be set responsible in modern ways until the legal system elephant will stop this scam covered by hi-tech shawl.
Edit: I reported it as a scam on facebook yesterday.

"Thump my chest"?

Right.

I take it you've never heard Truman Capote speak!

Tyr this on for size!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySkwEXDVgEg&list=RDySkwEXDVgEg#t=76

I know the difference between you and me now.

You are all about punishing Sonny.

You've made it personal.

I'm all about getting the money back for all those poor people scammed by BFL.

Get the money back first, punish Sonny later.

For me it ain't personal; it's business.

There will be lots of time to propely punish Sonny later.

Locking up Sonny at this point will not get one thin dime back for the people scammed by BFl.

The judge couldn't order it because he/she would have no power to do so.

Bend BFL over backwards and you might get some money back to the victims.

My plan could bend them like a pretzel but you do what you like.

I think you're drowning in anger.  I've been there, the energy from righteous anger can help push a mighty effort.  I think it is good for you to embrace it and use it.


Blackburn removes fuel in a controlled way before the wild-fire gets there.  Typically, they are small enough to stay under control.  Usually, there is an attempt to prevent collateral damage.


Cool, I've never been read by Truman Capote.  Though I'd really like to go for Morgan Freeman.

You don't seem to think that BFL will do anything because of the letter.  You think it reads a bit wimpy and over civilized.  I think you are 100% right.  The letter isn't written for BFL, it is written for the judge and the prosecutor.  It just has to address BFL and be sent to them.  It is to make the judge and prosecutor go for the kill. 

It is up to you if you want to thump your chest and type in all caps, or want to cause a maximum punishment for Sonny.

"Yes, I am.  You are going to try to make it appear that BFL is doing something that they are not by using an overseas posting shop, according to your web page, and you mention the risk of getting caught.  It is fraudulent."

Oh, really?

Like BFL ISN"T robbing Bitcoin users blind?

Actually, I'm not going to suggest that BFL is donig a damn thing and never said I would.

You boviously have no clue how this kind of SEO works.

some other fool suggested tht I was going to try to embarrass BFL online.

Nope.

Not even going to metnion the problems.

I have never seen such a bunch of namby-pamby, no-ball pussies outside of the old Pink GArter as I see in the Bitcoin world.

"Oh, BFL fucked me?"

"Well, yeah, but I only want to play FAIR with tht lot of scumbickets, reprobates, felons and thieves".

"I want to hold the MORAL HIGH GROUND!"

This while BFL continues its rape an pillage of the crypto world.

"Moral High Ground" my ass.

Pussies and scared shitless more like it.

What don't you all just bend over again for BFL?

oh wait

That's already what you are doing.

never mind

You don't understand.

There is no emotion involved on my end at all.

This ain't personal; this is business.

It is obvious to me that Bitcoiners are perfectly OK with allowing BFL continuaing its financial rampage and rape of the internet and therefore so be it.

You can fight fire with fire; it's done all the time but evidently not in the Bitcoin world.

Ever heard of a backburn?

Standard forest fire fighting technique.

You know how that letter reads to me?

Like this:

(Voce Truman Capote)

"Dear Mr, Bfl, DEAR Mr. BFL.

I have written you several times requsting that you send back my money and I have not received a reply or a refund.

I know you must have been so very busy and may have just overlooked my request, so with apologies I ask you again to please send me back my money. (I don't want to hurt your feelings and we can still be freinds!)

Alas, if you don't send me back my money I have to talk to my attorney who is a really terrible man who will write you a horrible demand letter and I hate to have him do that because it will hurt your feelings and might put you off your lunch.

I don't want to do these things because you are such nice people and I do so want to remain freinds, so could you just return my money and I won't even tell anyone because I don't want to hurt your reputation in any way.

Pleaase have a nice day and when you get around to it plese send me back my money, mkay?

Thank you and hoping our freindship lasts through all eternity.

Signed:

Fucked BFL Customer."