Sonny Vleisides' finally sticking it up his investors' asses! - page 4.

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

It seems like Sonny Vleisides hasn't changed his ways.

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/decentralization/message/4876?o=0&var=1&p=11

Quote

RE: [decentralization] Guide to DMT Rand operation - Skeptism

Posted By: Anon Mon Dec 31, 2001 6:22 pm |
Options

If you are interested in becoming one of the first 5000 Founders of LFCity
send a letter describing your reason for this goal to CityClerk@...
with the subject of "Founder". [1]

As at January 31, 2001 3:48PM PST LFCity has 1,333 Founders. [2]

LFC is funded by grants from individuals who agree to be "Founders" for
around $5K each. [3]

According to these numbers LFCity has raised $6,665,000. It is reasonable to
assume that the founders fee was waived for a select group of insiders and
early adopters. Even so it looks like they have raised quite a chunk of
change. I concede that "past history is no guarantee of future performance".
However, when it comes to evaluating the performance of someone spending
other peoples money, and potentially mine, I'm keen to learn what has been
achieved with all this cash. Anyone seen a balance sheet?

Despite mouthing libertarian philosophy, I found the individual in charge of
Dodge City, a subsidiary of Laissez-Faire City, (we'll call him "Ben") to
be autocratic, angered by being questioned, flawed in his understanding, and
in the habit of censoring messages he didn't like. [3]

The eventual result was that my account was suspended due to my arguments
and criticisms, which I found extremely hypocritical given the supposed
libertarian ideals of the place. Also the fact that they silence dissenters
is a bad indication as to the viability, honor, and realism of the project.
[3]

Hmmm... the libertarians/objectivists need a government. What are the
options for a group that believes in minimal government?

As the saying goes: Once a piece of shit, always...

Phinnaeus Gage

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Activity: 1918

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: wrenchmonkey on June 30, 2013, 12:53:32 AM

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on June 29, 2013, 11:11:52 AM

Quote from: wrenchmonkey on June 29, 2013, 02:56:35 AM

The website now says at checkout that all sales are final. You're quoting months old posts. You people have been screaming that the sky was falling since day one. Said they were going to take all the pre-order money and run without shipping a product. They shipped a product, and you said they were just going to ship a few to get more orders, and then take the money and run without ever shipping to customers.

They've been shipping hundreds of orders for the past few weeks, and now you're screaming that they're going to take the money and run, because they're enforcing their 'no refunds' policy on new orders that were placed AFTER they started shipping.

Every time you people are proven wrong, you come up with more bullshit to speculate about and say "I told you so" even though you've been wrong every time. I'm looking at you Phinnaeus Gage

There I was, jacking off to new girl (small tits, tight pussy) on MFC when I had this uncomfortable feeling that I was being watched. Sure enough, I was right.

I've yet to be proven wrong about Sonny K. not being revealed.
I've yet to be proven wrong about there not being any FCC certifications in spite of Josh stating that they were forthcoming in-two-week^TM back in last November.
I've yet to be proven wrong about there not being any UL certifications.
I've yet to be proven wrong about there not being any CE certifications.
I've yet to be proven wrong about Josh not also owing a 1000 BTC bet/guarantee promise to charity.

And, I've yet to be proven wrong about amassing free scrap copper and saving pre-1981 Lincoln cents (pennies) is a better investment than purchasing copper bullion over spot.

Now, who's looking at whom?

And yet you've been proven wrong on all of the claims that matter.

The 1000 BTC bet was dealt with. Get over it.

UL Certifications aren't required because the unit is powered by power supplies that are already UL certified.

There are differing opinions on whether Big Brother actually requires FCC certifications (everybody who's tried to make a stink about it with the FCC has received a response that they don't realy care.

It's illegal to melt Pennies, so their value is stuck at "face" period. End of story. If you're paying over spot for bullion, you should probably shop around better, and learn a little about the futures market, mmkay?

Now, as you were, ~~Chicken Little~~ Phinnaeus Gage

I'll give you a blowjob if you prove that the following 1000 BTC was satisfied.

Quote from: Inaba on October 19, 2012, 05:04:56 PM

Since Tom is refusing to actually make the bet he himself proposed between us, I am offering up a guarantee of 1000 BTC to charity (I will take suggestions on which charity to donate this to) if BFL does not meet it's power claims within 10% - meaning if BFL's power consumption is more than 66w for a Single SC, we lose the "bet."

Now, I ask if Tom is willing to step up and back the winning side. He is 100% confident that we will not meet our power claims (which is the genesis of the failed bet), and as such I ask that he pony up 1000 BTC to the same charity if we do make our power claims.

So there it is: Tom is confident that we won't make our power claims, I am confident that we will. I am willing to put up 1000 BTC to show my confidence in BFL products. Is Tom confident enough to do the same or is he just blowing hot air?

If the FCC is such a mute issue, then why...

Quote from: Inaba on November 03, 2012, 01:03:19 AM

Quote from: abracadabra on November 02, 2012, 07:36:06 PM

When is the Jalapeno getting FCC approval?

Maybe two weeks? We are waiting for the test lab to issue the test report.

With the bump in power requirements on the MR and the new screen, we had to make changes, although the new screen is already certified. We are doing all the devices at once, since they all share the same board.

According to Josh, it was a requirement, hence promising in-two-weeks^TM, thereabouts, they'll have certificate in hand.

As far as your UL statement. Then why do TV makers have UL tags affixed to the back of their TVs when they're already covered from doing such via the power cord?

Did you forget about the CE certification, or do you have a logical reason for that too not being required?

BTW, I forgot about the permit that wasn't pulled during the remodeling of their new facility. Prey tell the reason why they didn't get one or needed it.

k9quaint

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Quote from: wrenchmonkey on June 30, 2013, 12:53:32 AM

The 1000 BTC bet was dealt with. Get over it.

Which bet? The one where they did not pay. Or the one where they donated the money to themselves?

Don't worry, if you don't like BFL just ask for a refund! Grin

wrenchmonkey

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Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: Loredo on June 29, 2013, 12:13:45 PM

Quote from: wrenchmonkey on June 29, 2013, 02:56:35 AM

The website now says at checkout that all sales are final. You're quoting months old posts. You people have been screaming that the sky was falling since day one. Said they were going to take all the pre-order money and run without shipping a product. They shipped a product, and you said they were just going to ship a few to get more orders, and then take the money and run without ever shipping to customers.

They've been shipping hundreds of orders for the past few weeks, and now you're screaming that they're going to take the money and run, because they're enforcing their 'no refunds' policy on new orders that were placed AFTER they started shipping.

Every time you people are proven wrong, you come up with more bullshit to speculate about and say "I told you so" even though you've been wrong every time. I'm looking at you Phinnaeus Gage

Here's my response to you, and, again, I don't have a dog in this ring.

There must be hundreds of "common folk" among the readers and posters of this forum. I don't have any count, but it looks to me that most of the reports of hardware are from first-day adopters, luminaries, bitcoin insiders, or opinion makers such as bloggers. I may be wrong in that, but if so, someone could easily show a list of "I got mine" posts from "just folks."

You are. They've shipped Jalapeno orders through September 14th. Wink

wrenchmonkey

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Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on June 29, 2013, 11:11:52 AM

Quote from: wrenchmonkey on June 29, 2013, 02:56:35 AM

The website now says at checkout that all sales are final. You're quoting months old posts. You people have been screaming that the sky was falling since day one. Said they were going to take all the pre-order money and run without shipping a product. They shipped a product, and you said they were just going to ship a few to get more orders, and then take the money and run without ever shipping to customers.

They've been shipping hundreds of orders for the past few weeks, and now you're screaming that they're going to take the money and run, because they're enforcing their 'no refunds' policy on new orders that were placed AFTER they started shipping.

Every time you people are proven wrong, you come up with more bullshit to speculate about and say "I told you so" even though you've been wrong every time. I'm looking at you Phinnaeus Gage

There I was, jacking off to new girl (small tits, tight pussy) on MFC when I had this uncomfortable feeling that I was being watched. Sure enough, I was right.

I've yet to be proven wrong about Sonny K. not being revealed.
I've yet to be proven wrong about there not being any FCC certifications in spite of Josh stating that they were forthcoming in-two-week^TM back in last November.
I've yet to be proven wrong about there not being any UL certifications.
I've yet to be proven wrong about there not being any CE certifications.
I've yet to be proven wrong about Josh not also owing a 1000 BTC bet/guarantee promise to charity.

And, I've yet to be proven wrong about amassing free scrap copper and saving pre-1981 Lincoln cents (pennies) is a better investment than purchasing copper bullion over spot.

Now, who's looking at whom?

And yet you've been proven wrong on all of the claims that matter.

The 1000 BTC bet was dealt with. Get over it.

UL Certifications aren't required because the unit is powered by power supplies that are already UL certified.

There are differing opinions on whether Big Brother actually requires FCC certifications (everybody who's tried to make a stink about it with the FCC has received a response that they don't realy care.

It's illegal to melt Pennies, so their value is stuck at "face" period. End of story. If you're paying over spot for bullion, you should probably shop around better, and learn a little about the futures market, mmkay?

Now, as you were, ~~Chicken Little~~ Phinnaeus Gage

CrazyGuy

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Merit: 1007

BFL's USD refund policy provides a more likely explanation of why they would be halting refunds of recent orders. Bitcoin value was around $130 June 1st. With bitcoin value now around $90, users could abuse the refund process and essentially sell their coins for $130 today, then rebuy at $90 tomorrow. My guess is BFL is holding some percentage of preorder payments in bitcoin and can't afford to sell those coins and refund customers at a higher rate.

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: PuertoLibre on June 29, 2013, 05:06:25 PM

RICO?

I'm not an attorney, but do know this: RICO is pursed both in criminal charges, brought by the state, (which you are citing in your quote) and as the basis of civil complaint, brought by private parties. It has been used successfully, for example, in forcing settlement in an instance of a large apartment owner/manager systematically defrauding tenants via withholding security deposits.

It's apparently not easy to successfully bring a pleading to trial, but if it is done successfully, the triple damages section of the law gives it very sharp teeth.

EDIT: Search "rico civil complaint" for lots of citations and references to cases.

Isokivi

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Merit: 1000

Items flashing here available at btctrinkets.com

Bfl treating it's customers like shit. Is this even newsworthy anymore ?

PuertoLibre

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Merit: 1003

Quote from: ?? on ??

From the outside, it's hard to tell if BFL is just a poorly managed company run by some marketing "visionaries" getting caught up in a get rich quick scheme, or simply just maximizing their own ROI before the Kansas State Attorney General gets involved. With the recent hard-line stance on refund refusal and the shipping slowing to a trickle, the latter might make sense - they would take the liquid assets out of the company after a initial shipping push (securing more pre-orders and upgrade funds) while not continuing to tie liquidity up on actual material orders like chips and PCB's. That's if they were planning on "taking the money and run" approach, which I'm sure BFL is not, because they seem like nice, honest folks.

RICO?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act

Read through it carefully and see if it applies in any way?

Quote

When the U.S. Attorney decides to indict someone under RICO, he or she has the option of seeking a pre-trial restraining order or injunction to temporarily seize a defendant's assets and prevent the transfer of potentially forfeitable property, as well as require the defendant to put up a performance bond. This provision was placed in the law because the owners of Mafia-related shell corporations often absconded with the assets. An injunction and/or performance bond ensures that there is something to seize in the event of a guilty verdict.
In many cases, the threat of a RICO indictment can force defendants to plead guilty to lesser charges, in part because the seizure of assets would make it difficult to pay a defense attorney. Despite its harsh provisions, a RICO-related charge is considered easy to prove in court, as it focuses on patterns of behavior as opposed to criminal acts.[4]

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: Rampion on June 29, 2013, 06:10:59 AM

I'm interested in taking part in a joint legal action against BFL. I requested refund after Inaba's rant against Gar255 and I just received the same BS reply.

This is outrageous.

Quote from: titomane on June 29, 2013, 06:16:50 AM

This is a theory

less than 300 Jalapenos(600chips), less than 10 singles(100chips) and 3 minirigs (300chips)
Total 1000 chips

It is likely that the first order was only 1000chips. Now made another batch, this request will take between 8 and 12 weeks.

When they show all the chips they need, it began shipments of bulk.
The question is:
Have they done the order of 100000 chips they need for preorders?

Or are they waiting until someone buy these 100000:
https://products.butterflylabs.com/65nm-asic-bitcoin-mining-chip.html
To pay almost 100% of the order (200000)

LMAO, you came to the exact same conclusion I did many weeks ago.

That is probably why they are so slow again. [speculation of course]

Quote from: sneef on June 29, 2013, 06:51:15 AM

Quote from: Rampion on June 29, 2013, 06:10:59 AM

I'm interested in taking part in a joint legal action against BFL. I requested refund after Inaba's rant against Gar255 and I just received the same BS reply.

This is outrageous.

Inaba's rant against Gar255 and comments made about every single member of this board, were most certainly the issue that pushed me to ask for a refund, combined with the fact that BFL is clearly a ponzi.

Aha, I told you so! (A Speculation of course)

Flashman

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Hodl!

Context! What was BTC worth at that point?

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: Syke on June 29, 2013, 01:55:01 AM

Quote from: Inaba on October 17, 2012, 12:04:54 AM

I know, for my part, I would not want a device that runs at 200w at 60 GH/s - it would never see a positive ROI.

LOL. How's the crow taste? Why are you selling devices that will "never see a positive ROI"?

Youch.

I wonder how he feels about it now? Haha

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on June 29, 2013, 01:00:41 AM

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3521-bfl-doesnt-refund-anymore.html

He got his, now the rest can all go fuck yourselves.

What a motherfuckin' piece of shit. It's a shame I didn't see this coming otherwise I would have joined the choir and warned you all.

The end is nigh!

Well, I don't know the backstory. I assume though that when many members realized they were already screwed by receiving their miners so extremely late....that they would almost always do a mass refund together.

If they have a problem with it, they should talk to PayPal. And be the first in line, because those who are slow...usually get screwed.

Unacceptable

legendary

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Merit: 1001

Quote from: sneef on June 29, 2013, 05:50:56 AM

I can confirm i got the same bullshit email from BFL.

I ordered a couple of 30gh/s machines in February, they have not even shipped a single one of those, they have not even finished redesigning it...

I asked politely for my refund and was told no.

Maybe i just need to call Inaba a cunt in public, in order to get a refund...

You stand corrected,my 30GH unit shipped yesterday,FINALLY Roll Eyes

After 1 year & 5 days Roll Eyes

Now I'm just waiting to see if my $129 for shipping makes it a next day delivery or just lined thier pockets.....................

Flashman

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Hodl!

Quote from: Loredo on June 29, 2013, 12:13:45 PM

There must be hundreds of "common folk" among the readers and posters of this forum. I don't have any count, but it looks to me that most of the reports of hardware are from first-day adopters, luminaries, bitcoin insiders, or opinion makers such as bloggers. I may be wrong in that, but if so, someone could easily show a list of "I got mine" posts from "just folks."

Well yah, let me just scurry away and spend half an hour or so of my time making a list of people that will instantly be promoted to "BFL shill" status Roll Eyes

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on June 29, 2013, 01:00:41 AM

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3521-bfl-doesnt-refund-anymore.html

He got his, now the rest can all go fuck yourselves.

What a motherfuckin' piece of shit. It's a shame I didn't see this coming otherwise I would have joined the choir and warned you all.

The end is nigh!

Time perhaps to register sonny-vleisides.com to go with josh-zerlan.com?

Quote from: k9quaint on June 29, 2013, 12:21:33 PM

I agree with everything you posted except for the part I highlighted in bold. I used to think anyone could see if one was kind enough to connect the dots for them. However, confirmation bias is a very powerful effect, and people will cling to their original lines of thinking to the point of refusing to read content that could prove them wrong. It is baffling to witness in others, but I guess it is just part of the human condition.

Point in case, consider this bit from some Surda guy who really really thinks he should be taken seriously:

Quote

I'm unsubscribing this RSS feed, I thought I might learn something but it doesn't look that way.

The actual reason? It became unnervingly clear other people are aware he's being stupid and why. Which is not something the random muppet with delusions of self importance can tolerate too well.

Syke

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Quote from: wrenchmonkey on June 29, 2013, 02:56:35 AM

The website now says at checkout that all sales are final.

The website has always said that, but they have stated time and time again to not worry about that. They will refund anyone. Well, Inaba lied. Again.

k9quaint

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Quote from: Loredo on June 29, 2013, 12:13:45 PM

Quote from: wrenchmonkey on June 29, 2013, 02:56:35 AM

The website now says at checkout that all sales are final. You're quoting months old posts. You people have been screaming that the sky was falling since day one. Said they were going to take all the pre-order money and run without shipping a product. They shipped a product, and you said they were just going to ship a few to get more orders, and then take the money and run without ever shipping to customers.

They've been shipping hundreds of orders for the past few weeks, and now you're screaming that they're going to take the money and run, because they're enforcing their 'no refunds' policy on new orders that were placed AFTER they started shipping.

Every time you people are proven wrong, you come up with more bullshit to speculate about and say "I told you so" even though you've been wrong every time. I'm looking at you Phinnaeus Gage

Here's my response to you, and, again, I don't have a dog in this ring.

There must be hundreds of "common folk" among the readers and posters of this forum. I don't have any count, but it looks to me that most of the reports of hardware are from first-day adopters, luminaries, bitcoin insiders, or opinion makers such as bloggers. I may be wrong in that, but if so, someone could easily show a list of "I got mine" posts from "just folks."

Nothing you state changes the perception of a company with serious cash flow problems. As some one posts here, without the need for tin foil hat, it is very plausible that the announced chip sales is an attempt to get sufficient pre-sale capital to pay for the shipment of production chips.

There is, in the real world, something termed counterparty risk. I means the risk that the other side of your transaction either fails to deliver, or, more precisely, fails. About ten days ago, there was stress in the Chinese banking system, and the overnight bank-to-bank lending rate hit 25%! The reason was simply a deep concern that one or more large banks might be on the brink of failure. None did, not surprisingly, and the market unfroze again.

There is, here, with BFL, very well delineated counterparty risk; anyone can see it. From this, detractors will extrapolate to ruin, supporters will explain and excuse the actions causing that perception. The perception, though, is real enough. If there is, in fact, a new restriction on refunds, some will see that as a defense against a "run", which will only add to the perceived risk.

I agree with everything you posted except for the part I highlighted in bold. I used to think anyone could see if one was kind enough to connect the dots for them. However, confirmation bias is a very powerful effect, and people will cling to their original lines of thinking to the point of refusing to read content that could prove them wrong. It is baffling to witness in others, but I guess it is just part of the human condition.

Loredo

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Merit: 100

Quote from: wrenchmonkey on June 29, 2013, 02:56:35 AM

The website now says at checkout that all sales are final. You're quoting months old posts. You people have been screaming that the sky was falling since day one. Said they were going to take all the pre-order money and run without shipping a product. They shipped a product, and you said they were just going to ship a few to get more orders, and then take the money and run without ever shipping to customers.

They've been shipping hundreds of orders for the past few weeks, and now you're screaming that they're going to take the money and run, because they're enforcing their 'no refunds' policy on new orders that were placed AFTER they started shipping.

Every time you people are proven wrong, you come up with more bullshit to speculate about and say "I told you so" even though you've been wrong every time. I'm looking at you Phinnaeus Gage

Here's my response to you, and, again, I don't have a dog in this ring.

There must be hundreds of "common folk" among the readers and posters of this forum. I don't have any count, but it looks to me that most of the reports of hardware are from first-day adopters, luminaries, bitcoin insiders, or opinion makers such as bloggers. I may be wrong in that, but if so, someone could easily show a list of "I got mine" posts from "just folks."

Nothing you state changes the perception of a company with serious cash flow problems. As some one posts here, without the need for tin foil hat, it is very plausible that the announced chip sales is an attempt to get sufficient pre-sale capital to pay for the shipment of production chips.

There is, in the real world, something termed counterparty risk. I means the risk that the other side of your transaction either fails to deliver, or, more precisely, fails. About ten days ago, there was stress in the Chinese banking system, and the overnight bank-to-bank lending rate hit 25%! The reason was simply a deep concern that one or more large banks might be on the brink of failure. None did, not surprisingly, and the market unfroze again.

There is, here, with BFL, very well delineated counterparty risk; anyone can see it. From this, detractors will extrapolate to ruin, supporters will explain and excuse the actions causing that perception. The perception, though, is real enough. If there is, in fact, a new restriction on refunds, some will see that as a defense against a "run", which will only add to the perceived risk.

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on June 29, 2013, 07:51:31 AM

Quote from: wrenchmonkey on June 29, 2013, 01:16:48 AM

On an order placed 2-3 weeks ago, yeah, I see no problem with holding him to the "no refunds" policy, unless their delivery time gets pushed back for a long time (as has happened with previous orders).

You should probably read the link below. Just for fun I have copied a pretty important section when it comes to refunds.

When You Must Cancel an Order

You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:
•the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
•the customer does not respond to your first notice of a definite revised shipment date of 30 days or less and you have not shipped the merchandise or received the customer’s consent to a further delay by the definite revised shipment date;
•the customer does not respond to your notice of a definite revised shipment date of more than 30 days (or your notice that you are unable to provide a definite revised shipment date) and you have not shipped the merchandise within 30 days of the original shipment date;
•the customer consents to a definite delay and you have not shipped or obtained the customer’s consent to any additional delay by the shipment time the customer consented to;
•you have not shipped or provided the required delay or renewed option notices on time; or
•you determine that you will never be able to ship the merchandise.

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

Taking pre-order full payment for a product not yet delivered falls into different category than product already shipped. While it may be perfectly legal to offer a no refund policy on items shipped/received (aside from defects/warranty issues), it certainly appears that not allowing a full refund before shipping a product is not acceptable to the FTC.

If I was BFL I would not want lawyers looking into this stuff

BFL sure are a brazen bunch, given that they're on PayPal's radar, they opt to give them the finger, clearly telling PayPal that the almighty BFL will do what the fuck they please.

Topic: Sonny Vleisides' finally sticking it up his investors' asses! - page 4. (Read 7394 times)