Sportsbet.io - A Case of Selective Withdrawal Approval and Dubious Practices

holydarkness

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Quote from: Rating Place on May 13, 2024, 04:37:05 AM

my thoughts were non-profit binding arbitration section where you made the final decision with input from all. I was thinking that other players with problems outside of BCT would come here too. Since posters here at BCT didn’t jump in the conversation, it seems that others weren’t interested and feel as though this section here is fine as is so I scrapped the idea. I think you and others do great as is and there’s no need for another section because of the lack in interest.

I think this ~~will be~~ has to be my last reply to this topic on this thread, because we keep derailing topics discussing matters that's beyond the original point of the threads.

First, what I marked in bold, section. I didn't read theymos's full conversation with you as it happened privately on PM, and you [rightfully so] only share snippets of it, but the way I understand it, he is not interested about a section, as in sub-board. He allows people to create a thread or a post announcing and linking to a separate site, or something alike, that caters the service, but it will not be part of the forum.

Second, the one I mark in underline, they did not jump in as the discussion because [like this one... if I may be blunt, actually like most of the discussion people had with you in the past few weeks] it's out of topic. The discussion was made on a thread where someone accuses a platform of something, and there we are, talking about other things. [I even actually nearly missed the post made by the OP of that thread]. People are reluctant to jump in as they know it'll be very much OOT.

That's why I ended that discussion with a suggestion to,

Quote from: holydarkness on April 29, 2024, 12:37:28 PM

[...]

If you'd still like to discuss this matter further [be it a proposal of a board or perhaps a group of ADR team], I'd suggest you to [as previously said] open a thread on meta, we're clearly has been waaay OOT here. I think many members will be interested to discuss the prospect further and give their insight. I will pitch in if you ever created that thread [just... mention me, I rarely visit meta].

Rating Place

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Quote from: holydarkness on May 13, 2024, 04:00:00 AM

Quote from: Rating Place on May 11, 2024, 10:57:33 AM

[...]
This section here at BCT has been good at getting deposits back, unlike other places. Because of the success, I asked Theymos if it were ok to start a binding arbitration section. Theymos had no problem with it but there didn’t seem to be much interest here so I let it go.

As far as pointing out old cases and lectures, I think the past should be left in the past.

If I am not mistaken, and unless I understand things wrongly, what you asked theymos was if he's okay with people [specifically, me, though I did not say I am interested to offer that specific model you proposed to him] opening a service of binding arbitration, of which theymos replied that he doesn't mind, and that people does not need his permission to start such service.

The question [and answer] was not about a binding arbitration section, it's about offering an independent service, of which I can understand that [the way I understand it] theymos seems surprised that you said I am interested to offer, because I think he knows I solve things here without looking for anything in return, other than contributing to the forum and help others, that'll be quite likely a direct opposite of offering an independent binding arbitration service, since the service-provider might wish something in return.

Bottomline: the topic you raised and he addressed was about a service that's separate from and is nowhere part of the forum and/or supervised by the forum. Thus, not a section.

Quote from: Rating Place on April 26, 2024, 06:16:12 PM

1. Theymos has given you the OK to start binding arbitration although Theymos himself won't force the arbitration or be involved. I don't post private emails without permission but I think this section here is ok

Quote

If holydarkness wants to offer a binding arbitration service, then that has always been allowed, and my permission is not required.

. Theymos said no sub-forum but could be proposed in meta if you would like.

[...]

I'll repeat and change part of my earliest sentence in this post into a question: unless I understand things wrongly?

my thoughts were non-profit binding arbitration section where you made the final decision with input from all. I was thinking that other players with problems outside of BCT would come here too. Since posters here at BCT didn’t jump in the conversation, it seems that others weren’t interested and feel as though this section here is fine as is so I scrapped the idea. I think you and others do great as is and there’s no need for another section because of the lack in interest.

holydarkness

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Quote from: Rating Place on May 11, 2024, 10:57:33 AM

[...]
This section here at BCT has been good at getting deposits back, unlike other places. Because of the success, I asked Theymos if it were ok to start a binding arbitration section. Theymos had no problem with it but there didn’t seem to be much interest here so I let it go.

As far as pointing out old cases and lectures, I think the past should be left in the past.

If I am not mistaken, and unless I understand things wrongly, what you asked theymos was if he's okay with people [specifically, me, though I did not say I am interested to offer that specific model you proposed to him] opening a service of binding arbitration, of which theymos replied that he doesn't mind, and that people does not need his permission to start such service.

The question [and answer] was not about a binding arbitration section, it's about offering an independent service, of which I can understand that [the way I understand it] theymos seems surprised that you said I am interested to offer, because I think he knows I solve things here without looking for anything in return, other than contributing to the forum and help others, that'll be quite likely a direct opposite of offering an independent binding arbitration service, since the service-provider might wish something in return.

Bottomline: the topic you raised and he addressed was about a service that's separate from and is nowhere part of the forum and/or supervised by the forum. Thus, not a section.

Quote from: Rating Place on April 26, 2024, 06:16:12 PM

1. Theymos has given you the OK to start binding arbitration although Theymos himself won't force the arbitration or be involved. I don't post private emails without permission but I think this section here is ok

Quote

If holydarkness wants to offer a binding arbitration service, then that has always been allowed, and my permission is not required.

. Theymos said no sub-forum but could be proposed in meta if you would like.

[...]

I'll repeat and change part of my earliest sentence in this post into a question: unless I understand things wrongly?

Rating Place

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Quote from: JollyGood on May 12, 2024, 04:08:43 PM

First, I cannot prove or disprove guilt or innocence but the burden of proof has to lay with the one alleging there was wrongdoing. If I post an allegation about you stealing $2400 I have to provide some evidence to support my claim. Plucking allegations out of thin air or making them on weak foundations is not the way forward and never has been.

Second, if the OP has not even explained the full story and does not provide screenshots of transaction, account area etc then there is no compulsion on any member to waste their time speculating about what might (or might not) have happened?

Quote from: Rating Place on May 12, 2024, 03:01:55 PM

I start off pro player with all cases, the book must prove guilt, but don't come to any conclusions until facts are produced. At the same time I would ask that you do the same thing.

I don't think that any of us came to a conclusion that the player was innocent, but we are looking at things backwards. The $2400 was in the player's account. The book took the player's $2400. The onus is on the book to prove guilt. Otherwise you are prejudiced against the player. No where in the world are you guilty until proved innocent. The book should make a claim on why they confiscated the money, then the player refutes the allegations. This should be for the future, not the current case.

JollyGood

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First, I cannot prove or disprove guilt or innocence but the burden of proof has to lay with the one alleging there was wrongdoing. If I post an allegation about you stealing $2400 I have to provide some evidence to support my claim. Plucking allegations out of thin air or making them on weak foundations is not the way forward and never has been.

Second, if the OP has not even explained the full story and does not provide screenshots of transaction, Sportsbet account area etc then there is no compulsion on any member to waste their time speculating about what might (or might not) have happened?

As the OP is no longer posting here, I will unwatch this thread as there is nothing any member could add that remains on-topic while the OP did not explain his allegation in full.

Quote from: Rating Place on May 12, 2024, 03:01:55 PM

I start off pro player with all cases, the book must prove guilt, but don't come to any conclusions until facts are produced. At the same time I would ask that you do the same thing.

Rating Place

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Quote from: JollyGood on May 11, 2024, 11:13:38 AM

The OP is not posting here and for that reason there is no way to understand what the full allegation against Sportsbet actually was. It is not fair for others to speculate when the OP can write walls of text but not even explain what he claimed happened.

I have decided to unwatch this thread because quite clearly it has been derailed to the point the OP has become obsolete and everything that remains has become off-topic.

I start off pro player with all cases, the book must prove guilt, but don't come to any conclusions until facts are produced. At the same time I would ask that you do the same thing. While Sportsbet may not take $2400, the amount of deposit may have still be in question at the time of your post. Players are not going to come here for help if you start off posting a side before hearing anything. They know that they will berated. New people will come to BCT for help if treated fairly. That said, 95% of the time the player will be a scammer but we can help the 5%. If wanted I can point people here to BCT that currently aren't at BCT since I read forums world wide.

Quote

Before reading your post I was about to ask the OP to at least provide some element of evidence to support his allegation because it really does sound ludicrous to believe that Sportsbet would selective scam their customers especially for a miniscule amount as a $2400 win.

JollyGood

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The OP is not posting here and for that reason there is no way to understand what the full allegation against Sportsbet actually was. It is not fair for others to speculate when the OP can write walls of text but not even explain what he claimed happened.

I have decided to unwatch this thread because quite clearly it has been derailed to the point the OP has become obsolete and everything that remains has become off-topic.

Rating Place

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Quote from: JollyGood on May 11, 2024, 05:13:23 AM

Quote from: Rating Place on May 10, 2024, 01:20:26 PM

I’m not looking to continue petty arguments but will reply to this. With this case I'm not sure how people can take Sportsbet's side if it's a jurisdiction infraction. If the OP is from the UK and deposits $50,000, makes one bet and wins $3000, can Sportsbet take $53,000. They should take the $3000 winnings and return the $50,000 deposit. I have no problems with these cases if winnings were voided and the balance returned.

Can you provide a link for this alleged incident if has been reported in this forum as an alleged scam. It is important to stay on topic but if for the sake of reference another case is being mentioned members cannot take the word of another member at face value. As long as you can provide some sort of link that explains the alleged scam, it can be looked at.

Quote from: Rating Place on May 10, 2024, 01:20:26 PM

It’s not my intent to rock the boat and I admitted my mistake but I don’t need lectures from anyone on how and what to post. Normally I'm respectful to all posters that don't attack.

Who lectured you?

The $50,000 was a fictitious case being used as an example to say that the deposits should also be returned for first time infractions. If there are multiple infractions then I can see confiscating deposits as a deterrent.

This section here at BCT has been good at getting deposits back, unlike other places. Because of the success, I asked Theymos if it were ok to start a binding arbitration section. Theymos had no problem with it but there didn’t seem to be much interest here so I let it go.

As far as pointing out old cases and lectures, I think the past should be left in the past.

JollyGood

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Quote from: Rating Place on May 10, 2024, 01:20:26 PM

I’m not looking to continue petty arguments but will reply to this. With this case I'm not sure how people can take Sportsbet's side if it's a jurisdiction infraction. If the OP is from the UK and deposits $50,000, makes one bet and wins $3000, can Sportsbet take $53,000. They should take the $3000 winnings and return the $50,000 deposit. I have no problems with these cases if winnings were voided and the balance returned.

Can you provide a link for this alleged incident if has been reported in this forum as an alleged scam. It is important to stay on topic but if for the sake of reference another case is being mentioned members cannot take the word of another member at face value. As long as you can provide some sort of link that explains the alleged scam, it can be looked at.

Quote from: Rating Place on May 10, 2024, 01:20:26 PM

It’s not my intent to rock the boat and I admitted my mistake but I don’t need lectures from anyone on how and what to post. Normally I'm respectful to all posters that don't attack.

Who lectured you?

Rating Place

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Quote from: Pmalek on May 11, 2024, 02:20:33 AM

Quote from: Rating Place on May 11, 2024, 01:53:00 AM

I stated earlier that the case should be marked as resolved since the player went to Steve.

Resolved or Unsolved? Only the player can inform the community about the nature of the case. All we can do is speculate. The player last posted on 6 May. They were online 2 days ago, but didn't post anything. Unless they break silence soon, it's pretty self-explanatory that this is finished.

my opinion is resolved unless OP comes back and then open up again but I have no complaints on however it’s labeled.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Rating Place on May 11, 2024, 01:53:00 AM

I stated earlier that the case should be marked as resolved since the player went to Steve.

Resolved or Unsolved? Only the player can inform the community about the nature of the case. All we can do is speculate. The player last posted on 6 May. They were online 2 days ago, but didn't post anything. Unless they break silence soon, it's pretty self-explanatory that this is finished.

Rating Place

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Quote from: Pmalek on May 11, 2024, 01:49:34 AM

Quote from: Rating Place on May 10, 2024, 01:20:26 PM

I’m not looking to continue petty arguments but will reply to this. With this case I'm not sure how people can take Sportsbet's side if it's a jurisdiction infraction. If the OP is from the UK and deposits $50,000, makes one bet and wins $3000, can Sportsbet take $53,000. They should take the $3000 winnings and return the $50,000 deposit. I have no problems with these cases if winnings were voided and the balance returned.

But that's just the thing, we have no idea what happened. The OP didn't tell us. What we know from the posts they made is that they won some money and had their withdrawal request denied. From that point on, we are completely in the dark. I think the player was asked to conduct KYC, but they didn't want to. We know they spoke to Steve and acknowledged his efforts in trying to fix the situation, but that apparently didn't fix things in the player's favor.

We still don't know what the casino asks of the player and what it is that the player can't provide. It's got to be something related to identity verification and their place of residence, otherwise the player wouldn't have posted those reviews and warnings they copied from somewhere on the internet.

Don't you find it unusual that the player hasn't said what is wrong with their account and their withdrawal request? Besides thanking Steve, there are no further accusations or more information about the situation from the player's mouth. Maybe I am wrong, but to me, that sounds like the player has realized that they are in the wrong and this case is finished. If not, I'd love to hear what the player has to say and why they have been quiet ever since speaking to Steve.

I stated earlier that the case should be marked as resolved since the player went to Steve.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Rating Place on May 10, 2024, 01:20:26 PM

I’m not looking to continue petty arguments but will reply to this. With this case I'm not sure how people can take Sportsbet's side if it's a jurisdiction infraction. If the OP is from the UK and deposits $50,000, makes one bet and wins $3000, can Sportsbet take $53,000. They should take the $3000 winnings and return the $50,000 deposit. I have no problems with these cases if winnings were voided and the balance returned.

But that's just the thing, we have no idea what happened. The OP didn't tell us. What we know from the posts they made is that they won some money and had their withdrawal request denied. From that point on, we are completely in the dark. I think the player was asked to conduct KYC, but they didn't want to. We know they spoke to Steve and acknowledged his efforts in trying to fix the situation, but that apparently didn't fix things in the player's favor.

We still don't know what the casino asks of the player and what it is that the player can't provide. It's got to be something related to identity verification and their place of residence, otherwise the player wouldn't have posted those reviews and warnings they copied from somewhere on the internet.

Don't you find it unusual that the player hasn't said what is wrong with their account and their withdrawal request? Besides thanking Steve, there are no further accusations or more information about the situation from the player's mouth. Maybe I am wrong, but to me, that sounds like the player has realized that they are in the wrong and this case is finished. If not, I'd love to hear what the player has to say and why they have been quiet ever since speaking to Steve.

Rating Place

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Quote from: JollyGood on May 10, 2024, 12:10:46 PM

Quote from: Rating Place on May 09, 2024, 01:54:47 PM

I’ll admit I went overboard with Sportsbet although everything is true. Long history with Jeremy, Steve and another after I gave them a “C” rating. Lots of attacks in my thread and elsewhere.

I cannot recall reading your thread therefore I do not know anything about it except for what have written here but if you accept you went overboard constantly attacking Sportsbet then I hope that part of your posting has come to an end.

Quote from: Rating Place on May 09, 2024, 01:54:47 PM

With Pmalek he posted Sportsbet is his favorite book although he's not part of Sportsbet. Pmalek doesn't always tell the truth about Nitrobetting, otherwise I find him a great poster. I got blindsided because I didn’t see the false attacks coming from Pmalek.

Him stating his favourite book is irrelevant and it does not seem as though he attacked you and I have not seen any false attacks. It seems you are taking almost every opportunity to attack one company you do not like and the problem here seems to be that you are associating any member that either is part of their signature campaign or simply providing positive comments without attachment as part of them. It is unnecessary for you to do that.

Quote from: Rating Place on May 09, 2024, 01:54:47 PM

edit, I sure hope that you aren't accusing me of anything with Blackjack.fun. I stay in scam accusations and my thread.

No, I was pointing out similarities between you and another specific poster that is all.

I’m not looking to continue petty arguments but will reply to this. With this case I'm not sure how people can take Sportsbet's side if it's a jurisdiction infraction. If the OP is from the UK and deposits $50,000, makes one bet and wins $3000, can Sportsbet take $53,000. They should take the $3000 winnings and return the $50,000 deposit. I have no problems with these cases if winnings were voided and the balance returned.

It’s not my intent to rock the boat and I admitted my mistake but I don’t need lectures from anyone on how and what to post. Normally I'm respectful to all posters that don't attack.

Quote from: Pmalek on May 10, 2024, 10:17:42 AM

Quote from: Rating Place on May 09, 2024, 01:54:47 PM

You are the one coming to conclusions here about what happened, when not even the OP told the whole story.

I said that I don't know what happened. Quote below is what I said.

Quote

author=Rating Place I don't have any idea if the player is guilty or not of a first time infraction or multiple infractions. We all should wait, including myself, before taking sides

JollyGood

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Quote from: Rating Place on May 09, 2024, 01:54:47 PM

I’ll admit I went overboard with Sportsbet although everything is true. Long history with Jeremy, Steve and another after I gave them a “C” rating. Lots of attacks in my thread and elsewhere.

I cannot recall reading your thread therefore I do not know anything about it except for what have written here but if you accept you went overboard constantly attacking Sportsbet then I hope that part of your posting has come to an end.

Quote from: Rating Place on May 09, 2024, 01:54:47 PM

With Pmalek he posted Sportsbet is his favorite book although he's not part of Sportsbet. Pmalek doesn't always tell the truth about Nitrobetting, otherwise I find him a great poster. I got blindsided because I didn’t see the false attacks coming from Pmalek.

Him stating his favourite book is irrelevant and it does not seem as though he attacked you and I have not seen any false attacks. It seems you are taking almost every opportunity to attack one company you do not like and the problem here seems to be that you are associating any member that either is part of their signature campaign or simply providing positive comments without attachment as part of them. It is unnecessary for you to do that.

Quote from: Rating Place on May 09, 2024, 01:54:47 PM

edit, I sure hope that you aren't accusing me of anything with Blackjack.fun. I stay in scam accusations and my thread.

No, I was pointing out similarities between you and another specific poster that is all.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Rating Place on May 09, 2024, 01:54:47 PM

With Pmalek he posted Sportsbet is his favorite book although he's not part of Sportsbet.

I have had nothing but positive experiences betting on sports on Sportsbet, and when someone asks what casinos to try, I have no doubts when I recommend Sportsbet to them. If that means it's my favorite book, then I guess it is. But if you think for one second that I would defend them if I see them scamming, then that's your problem.

You are the one coming to conclusions here about what happened, when not even the OP told the whole story.
Stick to the topic of discussion without bringing Betcoin and Nitro Betting into the equation and how they do things.

This will be the last post that is not related to this scam accusation that I will reply to you.

Rating Place

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Quote from: notblox1 on May 09, 2024, 05:08:25 PM

Someone needs to call shrink asap, because one of the worst patients escaped mental institution and he needs to be returned their quickly.
He changed his name and he imagined that his worthless casino ratings are relevant to anyone Grin

I don't mind a little ribbing but at least be funny or use new material next time. Repeats don't make me laugh. I didn't want to call anyone else out of the Sportsbet guys, but here's one of them that use to stalk me.

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Someone needs to call shrink asap, because one of the worst patients escaped mental institution and he needs to be returned their quickly.
He changed his name and he imagined that his worthless casino ratings are relevant to anyone Grin

Rating Place

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Quote from: JollyGood on May 09, 2024, 12:21:14 PM

Quote from: Pmalek on May 09, 2024, 10:25:05 AM

Quote from: Rating Place on May 08, 2024, 01:22:32 PM

This entire wall of text is completely off-topic and unrelated to this case, and I don't care about it. You reminded me of that other person (your alt account) based on your praises for particular casinos and your username, and I was right. You are the same person. It's completely irrelevant to this scam accusation what any of the casinos/sportsbooks you like to highlight and shill are doing or what they did in the past. Focus at the subject in hand if you want to be taken seriously and stay off the shill pills.

I find is strange how this thread has been derailed over a period of time and it has coincided with the time when the OP has stopped posting too.

Looking at this from a neutral perspective, there really have been far too many walls of text related to when the Rating Place account posts. Clearly he has an agenda against Sportsbet and it is similarly uncanny in the sense that a certain member is chasing/trolling/harassing Blackjack.fun.

Quote from: Rating Place on May 09, 2024, 11:24:11 AM

Quote from: Pmalek on May 09, 2024, 10:25:05 AM

This entire wall of text is completely off-topic and unrelated to this case, and I don't care about it. You reminded me of that other person (your alt account) based on your praises for particular casinos and your username, and I was right. You are the same person. It's completely irrelevant to this scam accusation what any of the casinos/sportsbooks you like to highlight and shill are doing or what they did in the past. Focus at the subject in hand if you want to be taken seriously and stay off the shill pills.

My thread opened in 2014, it has 258,000 views talking about Sportsbook ratings and the only people that call me a shill are you Sportsbet guys.

Two questions:

First, he is wearing a Blackjack.fun signature and an eXch avatar therefore why call him a Sportsbet guy?

Second, name who you think are the Sportsbet guys.

I’ll admit I went overboard with Sportsbet although everything is true. Long history with Jeremy, Steve and another after I gave them a “C” rating. Lots of attacks in my thread and elsewhere.

With Pmalek he posted Sportsbet is his favorite book although he's not part of Sportsbet. Pmalek doesn't always tell the truth about Nitrobetting, otherwise I find him a great poster. I got blindsided because I didn’t see the false attacks coming from Pmalek.

edit, I sure hope that you aren't accusing me of anything with Blackjack.fun. I stay in scam accusations and my thread.

JollyGood

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Quote from: Pmalek on May 09, 2024, 10:25:05 AM

Quote from: Rating Place on May 08, 2024, 01:22:32 PM

This entire wall of text is completely off-topic and unrelated to this case, and I don't care about it. You reminded me of that other person (your alt account) based on your praises for particular casinos and your username, and I was right. You are the same person. It's completely irrelevant to this scam accusation what any of the casinos/sportsbooks you like to highlight and shill are doing or what they did in the past. Focus at the subject in hand if you want to be taken seriously and stay off the shill pills.

I find it strange how this thread has been derailed over a period of time and it has coincided with the time when the OP has stopped posting too.

Looking at this from a neutral perspective, there really have been far too many walls of text related to when the Rating Place account posts. Clearly he has an agenda against Sportsbet and it is similarly uncanny in the sense that a certain member is chasing/trolling/harassing Blackjack.fun.

Quote from: Rating Place on May 09, 2024, 11:24:11 AM

Quote from: Pmalek on May 09, 2024, 10:25:05 AM

This entire wall of text is completely off-topic and unrelated to this case, and I don't care about it. You reminded me of that other person (your alt account) based on your praises for particular casinos and your username, and I was right. You are the same person. It's completely irrelevant to this scam accusation what any of the casinos/sportsbooks you like to highlight and shill are doing or what they did in the past. Focus at the subject in hand if you want to be taken seriously and stay off the shill pills.

My thread opened in 2014, it has 258,000 views talking about Sportsbook ratings and the only people that call me a shill are you Sportsbet guys.

Two questions:

First, he is wearing a Blackjack.fun signature and an eXch avatar therefore why call him a Sportsbet guy?

Second, name who you think are the Sportsbet guys.

Topic: Sportsbet.io - A Case of Selective Withdrawal Approval and Dubious Practices (Read 970 times)