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Topic: Spotting a sociopath - page 2. (Read 6510 times)

hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
January 16, 2013, 06:20:38 AM
#26

You two have a serious misunderstanding of what a sociopath is at their core. The number of sociopaths walking around is debatable, but what is a fact is that they ARE wired differently than what most would call "normal" people.  They in fact are incapable of empathy, even on a theoretical level they just don't get it. This is a mistake I see so often, and it is quite frustrating because sociopaths know this is a common misconception and they utilize it to be better at being sociopaths. Depending on circumstance they may be more or less destructive to those around them, but from birth they simply learn to be proficient mimics of emotional states so as to appear normal to everyone else. Some times they are SO good at it you could be around one for years and not even know it.

 This isn't something they learned, it was something they were BORN with. How do I know this? EEG and active MRI technology now enables anyone with the correct equipment and training to demonstrate which areas of the brain are active during specific activities designed to activate target brain areas while under observation. Now I don't think people should walk around suspecting everyone of being a sociopath, but it is important to note that by definition they try to blend in to their surroundings. Any psychologist will tell you a sociopaths worst fear is being exposed for what they are.


I don't know enough to argue particulars but most mri results published are much more questionable then they at first appear. Even moreso than most science, there are numerous steps in the process that allow researchers to introduce bias.  Here is an abstract coming from the first page of a google search for "mri analysis":

Quote
Obtaining reliable data and drawing meaningful and robust inferences from diffusion MRI can be challenging and is subject to many pitfalls. The process of quantifying diffusion indices and eventually comparing them between groups of subjects and/or correlating them with other parameters starts at the acquisition of the raw data, followed by a long pipeline of image processing steps. Each one of these steps is susceptible to sources of bias, which may not only limit the accuracy and precision, but can lead to substantial errors. This article provides a detailed review of the steps along the analysis pipeline and their associated pitfalls. These are grouped into 1 pre-processing of data; 2 estimation of the tensor; 3 derivation of voxelwise quantitative parameters; 4 strategies for extracting quantitative parameters; and finally 5 intra-subject and inter-subject comparison, including region of interest, histogram, tract-specific and voxel-based analyses. The article covers important aspects of diffusion MRI analysis, such as motion correction, susceptibility and eddy current distortion correction, model fitting, region of interest placement, histogram and voxel-based analysis. We have assembled 25 pitfalls (several previously unreported) into a single article, which should serve as a useful reference for those embarking on new diffusion MRI-based studies, and as a check for those who may already be running studies but may have overlooked some important confounds. While some of these problems are well known to diffusion experts, they might not be to other researchers wishing to undertake a clinical study based on diffusion MRI.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20886566

My point is that modern scientific culture systematically underestimates uncertainty, and thus anything that comes out of it should be questioned rather than taken as fact.

sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
January 16, 2013, 06:19:54 AM
#25
Is "Sociopathy" an acknowledged clinical diagnosis. Is'nt it just a popularised term?

Would'nt it be covered as a combination of psycosis, manias, bi polar or other?

As a few of you has pointed out, sociopaths have a lot of  traits there are higly valued in society, unless they are murdering people for free.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 1958
First Exclusion Ever
January 16, 2013, 05:58:29 AM
#24
->"The most important thing is that sociopaths do not "feel" remorse and cannot sympathize with the emotions of others."

I'm pretty sure that they are "wired" the same way as us and feel remorse, maybe very seldom compared to the average guy, and would never verbalize it to them self or others, that they had done someone wrong.

From personal experience I have known people that have had a bad experience in their past, either violence or abuse from childhood or in a relationship. It's like a blanked out hole in their history when you get to know them. They seldom mention this episode and only superficially, but the effect on them is always visible under the surface when you know them. Being close to such a person can be hard, as you never know them truely. They often feel that they have to cling to the little piece of unblemished self they have left and are convinced that no one would be able to like or love them if anybody really knew how dark and scared of loosing their reality they really are. You knowing about their secret will ultimately make them brake the relation as you become the personification of their hurt.

So when ever I run into one who is more show and charm than logic and coherency in arguments, I always feel a little sad about them and often you can see the fear in their eyes when they discoveres that you have blown their cover when you is not caught up in their self fantasy! It's a bummer if such a guy is your boss as you will get fired a few days after such a moment of truth.

If the sociopath is an attractive woman you are doomed, even if you know what you are getting into, Being the single follower of such a love cult will chew you up in all ways imaginable. However next time such a woman crosses your path, you will jump right in again.


+1
I've met people who check all the right boxes: chronic/compulsive lying, making up fantasies, charming, sometimes anti-social behaviour, careless about others... If they're like that when they're old and grey, it's probably too late, but I've actually seen someone (mostly) grow out of it due to proper family support and a willingness to change. I don't believe in the fad that there's a "psycho lurking around every corner", that it's "1 out of 25 people" and all that bullshit.

Instead, what I see are excuses. A tiny minority might indeed have some diagnosable mental 'anomaly' that makes them incapable of feeling empathy. For the most part, I'm guessing your garden-variety corporate/political psychopath is likely to have been a spoilt child who always "got away with murder" unpunished. How can people develop certain connections in their brain if they grew up never needing them??

Part of the problem as I see it, is a profit-driven medical industry that wants to define as many disorders as possible so there's something for everyone. More disorders = more drugs, more funding, more hypochondriacs, more gullible parents wanting to fix their problematic kids... more profit!

You two have a serious misunderstanding of what a sociopath is at their core. The number of sociopaths walking around is debatable, but what is a fact is that they ARE wired differently than what most would call "normal" people.  They in fact are incapable of empathy, even on a theoretical level they just don't get it. This is a mistake I see so often, and it is quite frustrating because sociopaths know this is a common misconception and they utilize it to be better at being sociopaths. Depending on circumstance they may be more or less destructive to those around them, but from birth they simply learn to be proficient mimics of emotional states so as to appear normal to everyone else. Some times they are SO good at it you could be around one for years and not even know it.

 This isn't something they learned, it was something they were BORN with. How do I know this? EEG and active MRI technology now enables anyone with the correct equipment and training to demonstrate which areas of the brain are active during specific activities designed to activate target brain areas while under observation. Now I don't think people should walk around suspecting everyone of being a sociopath, but it is important to note that by definition they try to blend in to their surroundings. Any psychologist will tell you a sociopaths worst fear is being exposed for what they are.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
January 15, 2013, 12:57:18 PM
#23
Part of the problem as I see it, is a profit-driven medical industry that wants to define as many disorders as possible so there's something for everyone.

It's not only the medical industry. Everyone likes a picture of reality where their weaknesses arise from the fact that they are actually better than those who have power. Hollywood is milking this for decades now. With this new wave of fear, I'm sure we will be reading about sociopathy on the pamphlets in the organic food stores. Plug papaya root in your child's, umm, nose, once a week to keep the psychopathy out.


For you. Bang on.  All they do is name " symptoms" plus you never get two psychiatrist finding the same diagnosis on the same case a person goes somewhere gets a diagnosis goes to another shrink gets " another" diagnosis . That's because Psychiatry is not a science.  There is No Physical test in any way shape or form to for example; test a chemical imbalance. There are no tests for this. Well, if this is a physical chemical imbalance how come there are no tests for it like for example " Insulin". Were talking about a physical deficient property here.  They've come with hundreds if not thousands of claims they can't prove, and now it is in the " brain structure" . . I don't believe anything these people have to say. They've been proved to been liars fraudsters torturers rapists and plain insane evil nut cases to many times. Psychiatry is a mass controle brainwashing tool for the government. First thing a tyranical government does is to send its opositionists to their death or a mental hospital.
Run by psychiatrists.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
January 15, 2013, 12:08:13 PM
#22
Part of the problem as I see it, is a profit-driven medical industry that wants to define as many disorders as possible so there's something for everyone. More disorders = more drugs, more funding, more hypochondriacs, more gullible parents wanting to fix their problematic kids... more profit!

You know what's funny about that? The difference between a productive member of society and a serial killer (both having that different brain structure) is upbringing. Nurture, in this case, beats nature.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
January 15, 2013, 09:24:56 AM
#21
Part of the problem as I see it, is a profit-driven medical industry that wants to define as many disorders as possible so there's something for everyone.

It's not only the medical industry. Everyone likes a picture of reality where their weaknesses arise from the fact that they are actually better than those who have power. Hollywood is milking this for decades now. With this new wave of fear, I'm sure we will be reading about sociopathy on the pamphlets in the organic food stores.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
January 14, 2013, 11:40:55 PM
#20
if it starts with at  and ends with las  thats all you need to know!

No, Atlas isn't any sort of -path. He is, perhaps, a little manic-depressive, possibly a bit passive-aggressive, and definitely somewhat confused, but not a sociopath.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin
January 14, 2013, 11:20:35 PM
#19
if it starts with at  and ends with las  thats all you need to know!
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
January 14, 2013, 05:43:45 PM
#18
...
But how does the paper relate to that.  I didn't get it?
My bad, I linked the wrong one. Another goes into more details about that system and the profiling methods used. I'll try and dig out a link as I don't have it saved, it identifies individuals, keeps track of them and looks for unusual behavior. A private company run by ex-spooks networking reports and security cameras together to run a database of individuals might not be the best folks to decide what counts as normal behavior, especially when they describe anyone that doesn't fit within those patterns as mentally unbalanced.

EDIT: Think it was in this:
http://www.amazon.com/How-Look-Trouble-Protective-Intelligence/dp/1451528205
Right.

Got cha.

Thought it was a joke as in the mind set with the people that write such papers. Made perfect sense and funny.
hero member
Activity: 991
Merit: 1008
January 14, 2013, 05:16:56 PM
#17
sociopath is a very bad term for this because it can either describe full blown anti- or dissocial personality disorder or just people who dont feel empathy. the ladder might be 4% of the population. but even from the former most arent the extremes the article describes. most are either just socially ackward or garden-variety assholes, not master manipulators.

full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
January 14, 2013, 03:49:06 PM
#16
...
But how does the paper relate to that.  I didn't get it?
My bad, I linked the wrong one. Another goes into more details about that system and the profiling methods used. I'll try and dig out a link as I don't have it saved, it identifies individuals, keeps track of them and looks for unusual behavior. A private company run by ex-spooks networking reports and security cameras together to run a database of individuals might not be the best folks to decide what counts as normal behavior, especially when they describe anyone that doesn't fit within those patterns as mentally unbalanced.

EDIT: Think it was in this:
http://www.amazon.com/How-Look-Trouble-Protective-Intelligence/dp/1451528205
Right.

Got cha.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
In cryptography we trust
January 14, 2013, 02:00:54 PM
#15
I'm pretty sure that they are "wired" the same way as us and feel remorse, maybe very seldom compared to the average guy, and would never verbalize it to them self or others, that they had done someone wrong.

According to science psychopaths have a different brain. Obviously nurture (vs. nature) has a big influence on how an individual with such a brain develops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx8RxRn6dWU
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
January 14, 2013, 01:41:25 PM
#14
->"The most important thing is that sociopaths do not "feel" remorse and cannot sympathize with the emotions of others."

I'm pretty sure that they are "wired" the same way as us and feel remorse, maybe very seldom compared to the average guy, and would never verbalize it to them self or others, that they had done someone wrong.

From personal experience I have known people that have had a bad experience in their past, either violence or abuse from childhood or in a relationship. It's like a blanked out hole in their history when you get to know them. They seldom mention this episode and only superficially, but the effect on them is always visible under the surface when you know them. Being close to such a person can be hard, as you never know them truely. They often feel that they have to cling to the little piece of unblemished self they have left and are convinced that no one would be able to like or love them if anybody really knew how dark and scared of loosing their reality they really are. You knowing about their secret will ultimately make them brake the relation as you become the personification of their hurt.

So when ever I run into one who is more show and charm than logic and coherency in arguments, I always feel a little sad about them and often you can see the fear in their eyes when they discoveres that you have blown their cover when you is not caught up in their self fantasy! It's a bummer if such a guy is your boss as you will get fired a few days after such a moment of truth.

If the sociopath is an attractive woman you are doomed, even if you know what you are getting into, Being the single follower of such a love cult will chew you up in all ways imaginable. However next time such a woman crosses your path, you will jump right in again.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
January 14, 2013, 01:34:52 PM
#13
Quote
This is a meaningless and harmful fad invented for weak people to feel special.

lol weak people Cheesy lolloolloolollol Tongue

Wink
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
January 14, 2013, 01:18:04 PM
#12
Quote
This is a meaningless and harmful fad invented for weak people to feel special.

lol weak people Cheesy lolloolloolollol Tongue
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
January 14, 2013, 01:10:00 PM
#11
Nice read, bookmarked.
'
You can continue your study here.

(however carismatic and speculative I unfold myself on this forum, I never get any +1, but wait, that's a proof of my mental health?)
+1 Wink

http://www.naturalnews.com/036112_sociopaths_cults_influence.html#ixzz2Ch3BNbaW

This is a pretty good guide to ptotecting yourself from some of the crazy people.

Well, people who are clueless enough to rely on such a guide should suffer anyway...

And sociopaths never apologize? Give me a break...


madeline albright never apologized for killing 700.00  Iraqi children.  It was a cost that was worth to pay for the " freedom " of Iraq. We're talking full Blown psychos. .

That control freaks, different kettle of mad frogs altogether. This paper gives a good example of their thought process, your either with us of mentally unstable:
http://www.cicc.org/pdf/TRAPWIRE_Whitepaper_generic.pdf


Well i think she would still fall under a sociopath ( or *psychopath*  . I couldn't really find a difference)

But how does the paper relate to that.  I didn't get it?
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
January 14, 2013, 01:06:44 PM
#10
http://www.naturalnews.com/036112_sociopaths_cults_influence.html#ixzz2Ch3BNbaW

This is a pretty good guide to ptotecting yourself from some of the crazy people.

Well, people who are clueless enough to rely on such a guide should suffer anyway...

And sociopaths never apologize? Give me a break...


madeline albright never apologized for killing 700.00  Iraqi children.  It was a cost that was worth to pay for the " freedom " of Iraq. We're talking full Blown psychos. .

You can be sure that a sociopath will apologize if and when it is for his/her best interest.

You are all making arguments out of emotion. One does not need to be a sociopath to do deeds that are deemed bad by you. People you refer to likely would not be categorized as sociopaths.

Neither the fact that someone can be categorized that way means they will be harmful to you or your values.

This is a meaningless and harmful fad invented for weak people to feel special.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
January 14, 2013, 01:05:14 PM
#9
The most important thing is that sociopaths do not "feel" remorse and cannot sympathize with the emotions of others. That makes them more likely to act without consideration for others. It does not mean they are necessarily dangerous, but seeing someone in emotional pain will not be a factor in their decisions.
vip
Activity: 756
Merit: 503
January 14, 2013, 12:48:41 PM
#8
Nice read. Ironically it reminds me some company PR people.  Roll Eyes
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
January 14, 2013, 12:41:10 PM
#7
http://www.naturalnews.com/036112_sociopaths_cults_influence.html#ixzz2Ch3BNbaW

This is a pretty good guide to ptotecting yourself from some of the crazy people.

Well, people who are clueless enough to rely on such a guide should suffer anyway...

And sociopaths never apologize? Give me a break...


madeline albright never apologized for killing 700.00  Iraqi children.  It was a cost that was worth to pay for the " freedom " of Iraq. We're talking full Blown psychos. .
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