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Topic: Square is considering making a hardware wallet for Bitcoin (Read 3742 times)

legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 3368
Crypto Swap Exchange
Admit it, you were all waiting for this (to buy), right? Smiley
To some extent, yes, but not for that reason Tongue

It's interesting that I couldn't find any information about source code, but it can be found on their github page:
https://github.com/proto-at-block/bitkey
If you were referring to the content of their homepage, then perhaps it has something to do with the first bullet point in their "Notes" section:
- IIRC, the server code had something to do with one of the keys, so I guess that counts as not being fully open-source!

  • This document (including Software and schematics) is current as of 2024-02-22. Our goal is to make sure the code we publish is up to date with what is available in the App Store. We may publish other items on a less real time basis (e.g. server code and schematics) and so what is published may not always map to what is in production or design.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 6871
The long-awaited hardware wallet Bitkey...
I don't know who waited for a long time for Bitkey, but it was not me for sure.
They finally started sending this devices, but I am not really interested in paying €145 plus shipping fees for this.
It's interesting that I couldn't find any information about source code, but it can be found on their github page:
https://github.com/proto-at-block/bitkey
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1271
keep walking, Johnnie
The long-awaited hardware wallet Bitkey from Block / Square has been released. Admit it, you were all waiting for this (to buy), right? Smiley As @dkbit98 already wrote:

- No, and Bitcoin is not accepted as payment option  Cheesy

This device can't be purchased for cryptocurrencies (credit and debit cards only), which looks just as stupid as if a wallet for paper money could only be bought for metal coins. Maybe it’s impossible to store crypto on this hardware wallet? Smiley Ah, it seems bitcoin can be stored.
legendary
Activity: 3388
Merit: 6072
Crypto Swap Exchange
More of a side comment then anything, but CashApp (Square) is now aggressively pushing in the US their tax prep and filing service.
They can even track your crypto buy & sell for gain / loss purposes and so on.

Makes you wonder how many people will feed them more info about their crypto holdings because of this.

-Dave
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 5808
not your keys, not your coins!
and how the source code may look like, that we can not know at first and only think of different scenarios
The problem is that their system design is flawed. It is not possible to fix a flawed design with even the best, most open, most reviewed or tested software codebase.
Think about a car without wheels; no matter how well engineered it is, with an excellent engine and micron-perfect panel gaps, it will never move an inch.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 6871
You're right, but it doesn't seem that they even tried to mitigate that problem by choosing alternative suppliers, and by continuing on that route, $300 hardware wallets would become the norm in a year or two.
I wouldn't be surprised if that happens in few years, and not just for hardware wallets but for many other things, but looking in Sats price could actually go down Wink
That doesn't mean that I am endorsing Bitkey device in any way, this is just another way for Jack Dorsey to earn more money.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 3368
Crypto Swap Exchange
$150 today is not the same like $150 few years ago, and most hardware wallets are starting around $100 price target and up.
You're right, but it doesn't seem that they even tried to mitigate that problem by choosing alternative suppliers, and by continuing on that route, $300 hardware wallets would become the norm in a year or two.

I asked one of their leads on Twitter who replied "Yes we still plan to publish our code before we ship" (https://x.com/max_guise/status/1732808300427690113?s=20)
There is no a single word about code on their website, and that usually means it's not open source.
In the latter part of "this blog post", there's a PDF link with some information about an issue surrounding certain parts of the code:

  • Bitkey server code that implements the co-signing policy is not yet verifiable
    ○ We will open-source the code prior to general availability - but this code runs in an Amazon Web Services environment managed by Block whose properties customers cannot directly verify.
    While we may be able to provide verifiability through AWS’ Nitro Enclave Attestation, we have not yet evaluated this approach nor implemented it
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18492
$150 today is not the same like $150 few years ago, and most hardware wallets are starting around $100 price target and up.
Yeah, but most hardware wallets have a screen. Tongue This isn't even a hardware wallet, just a blind signing device.

I though Jack Dorsey was a ''bitcoiner''... but than I remember never to trust what anyone say in public, especially if he was involved in big social media business.
Like a lot of projects in this space, silly little things like open source, self custody, not trusting third parties, privacy, etc., are all irrelevant when it comes to making as much profit as possible.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 6871
Even if none of its cons existed, I would've still said it's way too overpriced.
You forgot about inflation part, so price is not such a big problem for me here.
$150 today is not the same like $150 few years ago, and most hardware wallets are starting around $100 price target and up.

This part surprises me the most... A few months back, they partnered with Coinbase and integrated their services into their app, but for some reason, they're not using Coinbase Commerce on their website
I though Jack Dorsey was a ''bitcoiner''... but than I remember never to trust what anyone say in public, especially if he was involved in big social media business.

Seems like all the concerns we raised multiple times in this thread have been completely ignored and Block have powered ahead with the worst possible combination of features.
I see a bunch of people on twitter ordering this stuff, so I won't be surprised if it gets sold-out quickly  Roll Eyes

I asked one of their leads on Twitter who replied "Yes we still plan to publish our code before we ship" (https://x.com/max_guise/status/1732808300427690113?s=20)
There is no a single word about code on their website, and that usually means it's not open source.
Don't trust, verify.
jr. member
Activity: 58
Merit: 104
$150 for a closed source box with no screen which means you have to sign your transactions blindly and which gives Block the ability to completely surveil all your transactions. Seems like all the concerns we raised multiple times in this thread have been completely ignored and Block have powered ahead with the worst possible combination of features.

Hard pass.

Even worse, Jack's original 2021 announcement said that their work would be open source (as much as possible), as did one of their early blog posts.

I asked one of their leads on Twitter who replied "Yes we still plan to publish our code before we ship" (https://x.com/max_guise/status/1732808300427690113?s=20)

As we know, "publish" code is different from open source. Unfortunately Max did not reply to my followup questions asking about commitment to using FOSS licenses. Hopefully they will follow through on Jack's original commitment.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18492
$150 for a closed source box with no screen which means you have to sign your transactions blindly and which gives Block the ability to completely surveil all your transactions. Seems like all the concerns we raised multiple times in this thread have been completely ignored and Block have powered ahead with the worst possible combination of features.

Hard pass.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 3368
Crypto Swap Exchange
Bitkey wallet has now officially opened for pre-order with the price of $150 plus shipping and taxes.
Even if none of its cons existed, I would've still said it's way too overpriced.

and Bitcoin is not accepted as payment option  Cheesy
This part surprises me the most... A few months back, they partnered with Coinbase and integrated their services into their app, but for some reason, they're not using Coinbase Commerce on their website [quite weird]!
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 6871
Bitkey wallet has now officially opened for pre-order with the price of $150 plus shipping and taxes.
That includes hardware device, mobile app, and bitcoin recovery tools if you lose phone, hardware, or both of them.
Note that shipping starts from late February to early March 2024, so don't expect fast delivery.

I think they also created new website with new video commercial:
https://bitkey.world/

Would I spend over $150 for this device?
- No, and Bitcoin is not accepted as payment option  Cheesy


https://twitter.com/jack/status/1732799578062172295
jr. member
Activity: 58
Merit: 104
in principle, every new competitor on the market should be viewed positively. be it in terms of hardware wallets or e.g. mining.
Regarding Square's hardware device, which is not a hardware wallet, the one positive thing is that another brand could take a look at it and decide it's useless. But they could draw inspiration from it and actually create something meaningful and safe. But since this device is meant to target newbies and first-time crypto users, I think it will succeed regardless of its drawbacks. Good marketing results in wonders.

I can attest that we are drawing inspiration and discussing how to build a similar product at a similar cost without the multitude of drawbacks I noted in my blog post.
legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 7007
Farewell, Leo. You will be missed!
in principle, every new competitor on the market should be viewed positively. be it in terms of hardware wallets or e.g. mining.
Regarding Square's hardware device, which is not a hardware wallet, the one positive thing is that another brand could take a look at it and decide it's useless. But they could draw inspiration from it and actually create something meaningful and safe. But since this device is meant to target newbies and first-time crypto users, I think it will succeed regardless of its drawbacks. Good marketing results in wonders.
legendary
Activity: 3388
Merit: 6072
Crypto Swap Exchange
we need more alternatives and more decentralization!
Really?!
How much new hardware wallets do we really need, because we already have around 100 different models I think  Tongue
Bitkey wallet has nothing to do with decentralization, on contrary, and I can't look positive on every new crap that comes out in market, that is not normal behavior.

However, there is the small chance that either

1) They will not have the sales numbers they want and go back and for rev #2 make it with a screen and make it more private and.... Yeah, probably not going to happen.

And / or

2) Someone who knows how to make a good hardware wallet will take a look at this and go, yeah it's silly, but lets make one that does not look like a wallet but rather an oddball piece of art or whatever. Because if a quality known opensource wallet maker made something that looked like that I would think it would sell.

-Dave
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 871
Intern at Foxpup's merit cycling club
Really?!
How much new hardware wallets do we really need, because we already have around 100 different models I think  Tongue
Bitkey wallet has nothing to do with decentralization, on contrary, and I can't look positive on every new crap that comes out in market, that is not normal behavior.

Hey man. I understand your point, but why is it bad to introduce new options to the market? Apparently, if the arguments you posted are true, we will just not use it. I mean isn't it that simple? Perhaps you worry because new bitcoin holders may get caught in traps and don't learn the best practices. And this is acceptable, but a free market allows anyone to create a new idea, the future of which may be good or bad
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 6871
we need more alternatives and more decentralization!
Really?!
How much new hardware wallets do we really need, because we already have around 100 different models I think  Tongue
Bitkey wallet has nothing to do with decentralization, on contrary, and I can't look positive on every new crap that comes out in market, that is not normal behavior.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 871
Intern at Foxpup's merit cycling club
So I agree that being closed source is not optimal.
I also agree that anything internet for a hardware wallet is bad. This server side address verification that was mentioned above feels bad.
Finally I agree that producing a hardware wallet alongside a companion app doesn't necessarily mean it's better than other ones that don't have a companion app with the same brand.

However, feel free to laugh at me, but I am in love with the design. Having no monitor though... Feels awkward.
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 7471
🔐Icarus CEO💳
in principle, every new competitor on the market should be viewed positively. be it in terms of hardware wallets or e.g. mining.
we need more alternatives and more decentralization!
and how the source code may look like, that we can not know at first and only think of different scenarios

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