Stablecoins are killing payment systems

zasad@

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 21, 2023, 08:29:47 PM

@zasad@. Hehehe agreed. This is why altcoins were created because there are developers that want to create something that can do better than bitcoin. Fast transactions, more anonymity or smart contracts, these are being developed. However, the bitcoin maximalists will call them scams then they will tell you that the best coin is only bitcoin. They will cancel you if you disagree. A very head shaking behavior hehehe. How do we expect the whole cryptospace forward with only bitcoin?

I am not a Bitcoin maximalist, and as an investor in this market, I analyze it from the point of view of a profitable investment.
Apart from Bitcoin, there is also a list of good coins that are as reliable as Bitcoin. I wrote about litecoline and monero, but there is also DOGE and Dash. Doge is also a good decentralized coin, unlike Ethereum.

I don't like this shit on Ethereum
https://twitter.com/bloXrouteLabs/status/1736819783520092357?s=20

But for now there are many other relays there, and any transactions will work

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@OcTradism. Agreed, bitcoin is still better than these altcoins even after their attempts. However, the argument is on the maximalists attitude that everyone should use only bitcoin and no other coin. How can everyone presently send bitcoin cheaply if everyone used only bitcoin. Maximalists should also admit that altcoins have their use cases also.

OcTradism

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 21, 2023, 08:29:47 PM

@zasad@. Hehehe agreed. This is why altcoins were created because there are developers that want to create something that can do better than bitcoin. Fast transactions, more anonymity or smart contracts, these are being developed. However, the bitcoin maximalists will call them scams then they will tell you that the best coin is only bitcoin. They will cancel you if you disagree. A very head shaking behavior hehehe. How do we expect the whole cryptospace forward with only bitcoin?

They wanted to create something better than Bitcoin, it is their good attempt.

Unfortunately, they ended with less secured blockchains and more exploitation happened that cause dramatic losses for users on those altcoin blockchains.

Bitcoin blockchain is the best among many Proof of Work blockchains and it is certainly better than Smart contract blockchains.

See How many confirmations are equivalent* to 6 Bitcoin confirmations? (For Proof of Work blockchains only).
https://howmanyconfs.com/

With stable coins, they can be frozen in your wallets, values can de-peg.

PSA: Most Stablecoins Can Be Frozen, Even in Your Own Wallets

bbc.reporter

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@zasad@. Hehehe agreed. This is why altcoins were created because there are developers that want to create something that can do better than bitcoin. Fast transactions, more anonymity or smart contracts, these are being developed. However, the bitcoin maximalists will call them scams then they will tell you that the best coin is only bitcoin. They will cancel you if you disagree. A very head shaking behavior hehehe. How do we expect the whole cryptospace forward with only bitcoin?

zasad@

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 20, 2023, 10:46:04 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on December 20, 2023, 06:56:58 AM

Quote from: bitmover on December 15, 2023, 12:47:42 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on December 15, 2023, 09:18:52 AM

Bitcoin is slow. Personally, I find it easier to use free transactions in the TRON ecosystem, which are confirmed in a few seconds, than to wait for confirmation in the Bitcoin ecosystem. Even these simple statistics tell us a lot.

That's the cost of decentralization

10 minutes isn't a lot if you are worried about decentralization and freedom. A swift can take many business days, for example.

Otherwise, you can just use visa. Most cards will even give you 1% cashback for every transaction you make, and they are instantaneous.

Bitcoin's goal is not speed or low cost, but freedom.

Yes, I myself always say that you have to pay for freedom, but not everyone is ready to pay that much for freedom. Sometimes it's easier to use a centralized stablecoin

https://mempool.space/tv

However, are the people who caused the fees to go very high paid the high fees for freedom? I reckon they paid them because they speculate that they will make much more money than they wasted on fees hehehe. It is not freedom, it is speculation and hype that caused a pump for demand to use bitcoin for NFTs and tokens.

While some people make money from token transactions, other people cannot enjoy freedom because it is too expensive. If I really want freedom, then I use Litecoin or Monero, otherwise transactions are very expensive during such periods of time. And Litecoin has always helped me out.

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Quote from: zasad@ on December 20, 2023, 06:56:58 AM

Quote from: bitmover on December 15, 2023, 12:47:42 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on December 15, 2023, 09:18:52 AM

Bitcoin is slow. Personally, I find it easier to use free transactions in the TRON ecosystem, which are confirmed in a few seconds, than to wait for confirmation in the Bitcoin ecosystem. Even these simple statistics tell us a lot.

That's the cost of decentralization

10 minutes isn't a lot if you are worried about decentralization and freedom. A swift can take many business days, for example.

Otherwise, you can just use visa. Most cards will even give you 1% cashback for every transaction you make, and they are instantaneous.

Bitcoin's goal is not speed or low cost, but freedom.

Yes, I myself always say that you have to pay for freedom, but not everyone is ready to pay that much for freedom. Sometimes it's easier to use a centralized stablecoin

https://mempool.space/tv

However, are the people who caused the fees to go very high paid the high fees for freedom? I reckon they paid them because they speculate that they will make much more money than they wasted on fees hehehe. It is not freedom, it is speculation and hype that caused a pump for demand to use bitcoin for NFTs and tokens.

zasad@

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Quote from: bitmover on December 15, 2023, 12:47:42 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on December 15, 2023, 09:18:52 AM

Bitcoin is slow. Personally, I find it easier to use free transactions in the TRON ecosystem, which are confirmed in a few seconds, than to wait for confirmation in the Bitcoin ecosystem. Even these simple statistics tell us a lot.

That's the cost of decentralization

10 minutes isn't a lot if you are worried about decentralization and freedom. A swift can take many business days, for example.

Otherwise, you can just use visa. Most cards will even give you 1% cashback for every transaction you make, and they are instantaneous.

Bitcoin's goal is not speed or low cost, but freedom.

Yes, I myself always say that you have to pay for freedom, but not everyone is ready to pay that much for freedom. Sometimes it's easier to use a centralized stablecoin

https://mempool.space/tv

Quote from: joniboini on December 18, 2023, 08:23:07 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on December 16, 2023, 06:05:39 AM

The Bitcoin network also has problems with transaction costs. When Bitcoin was at 44,000 a few days ago, I paid 10-20 dollars per transaction and waited 30 minutes or more.
Decentralization is not always needed for a $300 payment. But the visa payment system is not currently available in all services, and USDT does not depend on sanctions.

Bitcoin price is not the biggest factor for transaction fees IIRC. I remember paying the same fee when we were at the peak of the '17 (or '21?) bullrun when BTC did not even touch $25k yet. Basically, iff the network is busy then you'll likely need to pay more. You're right that people who pay $300 for some services probably do not need decentralization, but at the same time, they don't have to use Bitcoin for that either. Choosing Bitcoin means you care about security and want to use something in which its supply is not controlled by a group of people, but can be verified and relatively fast at the same time. CMIIW.

I have been criticized many times for my words, but I do not consider Bitcoin a safe asset in terms of price stability. I believe that its price has been manipulated for many years, and when the manipulators get tired of it, they will sell it and invest in more modern projects.

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Quote from: bitmover on December 13, 2023, 05:14:10 PM

I think stable coins are amazing for people who live in developing countries, where fiat is much worse than usd or euro.

as you mentioned they are making "significantly easier for people and businesses to move, store and own " usd around the world.

However, I don't see their adoption growing that fast in the past years. Credit cards are still the number one option for me when paying something with fiat currencies.

Holding Stable coins is really amazing in developing countries where where majority can’t stand volatility of the crypto market, and it’s an easier means of owning dollars so they prefer to hold Stable coins as they wouldn’t have to worry about their assets losing value over a short period of time.

Holding stable coins is easier for people to store value especially for business purposes and it easier for people to understand it. Holding bitcoin is more profitable and that’s why stable coins adoption is far behind in the past years

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Quote from: bitmover on December 13, 2023, 05:14:10 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on December 13, 2023, 03:14:24 PM

At this rate, in 5 years the whole world will be using stablecoins instead of payment systems.

I think stable coins are amazing for people who live in developing countries, where fiat is much worse than usd or euro.

as you mentioned they are making "significantly easier for people and businesses to move, store and own " usd around the world.

However, I don't see their adoption growing that fast in the past years. Credit cards are still the number one option for me when paying something with fiat currencies.

After the ban on cryptospace exchanges, miners and payment processors in China, there were rumors that stablecoins were the preferred way to get underground inflows and outflows in and out of the cryptospace. Chinese citizens would go near the borders of Hong Kong and buy stablecoins held in hardware wallets with Yuan at high prices.

Also, it should not be a shock if America secretly is supporting US dollar stablecoins because it dollarizes the cryptospace and developing countries more easily.

joniboini

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Quote from: zasad@ on December 16, 2023, 06:05:39 AM

The Bitcoin network also has problems with transaction costs. When Bitcoin was at 44,000 a few days ago, I paid 10-20 dollars per transaction and waited 30 minutes or more.
Decentralization is not always needed for a $300 payment. But the visa payment system is not currently available in all services, and USDT does not depend on sanctions.

Bitcoin price is not the biggest factor for transaction fees IIRC. I remember paying the same fee when we were at the peak of the '17 (or '21?) bullrun when BTC did not even touch $25k yet. Basically, iff the network is busy then you'll likely need to pay more. You're right that people who pay $300 for some services probably do not need decentralization, but at the same time, they don't have to use Bitcoin for that either. Choosing Bitcoin means you care about security and want to use something in which its supply is not controlled by a group of people, but can be verified and relatively fast at the same time. CMIIW.

zasad@

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Quote from: bitmover on December 15, 2023, 12:47:42 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on December 15, 2023, 09:18:52 AM

Bitcoin is slow. Personally, I find it easier to use free transactions in the TRON ecosystem, which are confirmed in a few seconds, than to wait for confirmation in the Bitcoin ecosystem. Even these simple statistics tell us a lot.

That's the cost of decentralization

10 minutes isn't a lot if you are worried about decentralization and freedom. A swift can take many business days, for example.

Otherwise, you can just use visa. Most cards will even give you 1% cashback for every transaction you make, and they are instantaneous.

Bitcoin's goal is not speed or low cost, but freedom.

The Bitcoin network also has problems with transaction costs. When Bitcoin was at 44,000 a few days ago, I paid 10-20 dollars per transaction and waited 30 minutes or more.
Decentralization is not always needed for a $300 payment. But the visa payment system is not currently available in all services, and USDT does not depend on sanctions.

hugeblack

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By stableCOINs, do you mean USDT USDC? I didn't think it was so common outside trading channels? StableCoins will not have a future because with increasing regulatory pressures, I expect that if governments decide to accept Bitcoin, they will have to create a stable dollar system, and then you must conduct identity verification before transferring Bitcoin to that stable currency, which will inevitably not be USDT USDC, but rather something controlled directly by the Fed instead. It is one of the companies that rely on treasury bonds and bank accounts to provide sufficient liquidity to maintain the peg price of $1.

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Quote from: zasad@ on December 15, 2023, 09:18:52 AM

Bitcoin is slow. Personally, I find it easier to use free transactions in the TRON ecosystem, which are confirmed in a few seconds, than to wait for confirmation in the Bitcoin ecosystem. Even these simple statistics tell us a lot.

That's the cost of decentralization

10 minutes isn't a lot if you are worried about decentralization and freedom. A swift can take many business days, for example.

Otherwise, you can just use visa. Most cards will even give you 1% cashback for every transaction you make, and they are instantaneous.

Bitcoin's goal is not speed or low cost, but freedom.

zasad@

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Quote from: bitmover on December 14, 2023, 08:09:40 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on December 14, 2023, 05:33:34 AM

Once stablecoin transactions become nearly free, banks will no longer be needed for cross-border settlements.

Even bitcoin is good for that. Fees aren't usually as high as they are now, and with 0.5 - 2 usd we are able to transfer thousands of dollars to another country within minutes. Way better than the banking system

Bitcoin is slow. Personally, I find it easier to use free transactions in the TRON ecosystem, which are confirmed in a few seconds, than to wait for confirmation in the Bitcoin ecosystem. Even these simple statistics tell us a lot.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63252004

Quote from: buwaytress on December 14, 2023, 09:48:13 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on December 13, 2023, 03:14:24 PM

At this rate, in 5 years the whole world will be using stablecoins instead of payment systems.

Nice utopia to dream of, but that feels like an overestimation of a willingness to use something outside of a recognised state-compliant and state-oversight system. It's almost 2024 and I still have to convince colleagues more technologically-dependent and savvy than myself to switch or even consider conventional crypto (Bitcoin) that is secure and free of central influence. Stablecoins, in the crypto sense, still have a lot of ground to cover when they are, still centralised corporate entities without state assurances or oversight.

Bitcoin is good for hodling large amounts of money, and for transferring 10-1000 dollars, the centralized stablecoin USDT is usually used. I offer DAI to some people, but people think it’s a scam

There are a lot of people in the world who don't want to study.
They don’t want to know anything except USDT.

avikz

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Quote from: zasad@ on December 13, 2023, 03:14:24 PM

https://www.circle.com/executiveinsights/latam-fintech-companies-embrace-digital-finance
"Stablecoins and tokenized data on open blockchains are unleashing a new wave of global commerce, making it significantly easier for people and businesses to move, store and own value locally and around the world.
Last year(2022), global stablecoin settlement exceeded $7 trillion compared to $14 trillion settled at Visa and Mastercard.
Around the world, 1.7 billion people are underbanked, yet two-thirds of these people own a smartphone.4 Much as the original internet democratized access to information, public blockchains can turn these internet connected devices into compliant endpoints for both traditional finance and innovative new financial services that are completely disrupting traditional process and bureaucracy. "

At this rate, in 5 years the whole world will be using stablecoins instead of payment systems.

Stablecoins are good but not the best! However it comes with its own benefits and a lot of people who are actively trying to avoid banking rout for borderless payments, are adopting cryptocurrencies, and more specifically stable coins. But when the question comes whether the stable coins can eradicate the need of banking or not, I think differently than many other fellow members.

Banking system has a very strong foundation within the society. The usage of banking is more psychological than anything else. Otherwise when we already have a robust system available why people are not using it? Banking can never be eradicated. But we will see a growth in cryptocurrency payment settlements. Both will coexist.

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Quote from: buwaytress on December 14, 2023, 09:48:13 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on December 13, 2023, 03:14:24 PM

At this rate, in 5 years the whole world will be using stablecoins instead of payment systems.

Nice utopia to dream of, but that feels like an overestimation of a willingness to use something outside of a recognised state-compliant and state-oversight system. It's almost 2024 and I still have to convince colleagues more technologically-dependent and savvy than myself to switch or even consider conventional crypto (Bitcoin) that is secure and free of central influence. Stablecoins, in the crypto sense, still have a lot of ground to cover when they are, still centralised corporate entities without state assurances or oversight.

I actually think what zasad is saying can happen. They may not say it but the stablecoin could be the real CBDC, we are not yet aware of it but since this is supported by the government and I mean they can freeze it right?

And then the USDC seems to be catching up with the USDT which USDC is governed by a popular organization that you could link to the government. The stablecoins are the preferred payment even the ecommerce sites today are accepting stablecoins and PayPal is out.

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Quote from: zasad@ on December 13, 2023, 03:14:24 PM

At this rate, in 5 years the whole world will be using stablecoins instead of payment systems.

Nice utopia to dream of, but that feels like an overestimation of a willingness to use something outside of a recognised state-compliant and state-oversight system. It's almost 2024 and I still have to convince colleagues more technologically-dependent and savvy than myself to switch or even consider conventional crypto (Bitcoin) that is secure and free of central influence. Stablecoins, in the crypto sense, still have a lot of ground to cover when they are, still centralised corporate entities without state assurances or oversight.

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Quote from: zasad@ on December 14, 2023, 05:33:34 AM

Once stablecoin transactions become nearly free, banks will no longer be needed for cross-border settlements.

Even bitcoin is good for that. Fees aren't usually as high as they are now, and with 0.5 - 2 usd we are able to transfer thousands of dollars to another country within minutes. Way better than the banking system

Quote from: Poker Player on December 13, 2023, 10:57:32 PM

Quote from: bitmover on December 13, 2023, 05:14:10 PM

However, I don't see their adoption growing that fast in the past years. Credit cards are still the number one option for me when paying something with fiat currencies.

You live in Brazil, don't you? Do you believe the quote I posted, which is based on a Mastercard study?

I don't think this is true.

I have seen studies saying that 30% of Brazilians have ever bought a crypto asset. This is not the same as buying in an exchange, because some of bankings offering bitcoin/ethereum for sale. But you can't withdrawal.

like this one https://exame.com/future-of-money/mais-de-30-dos-brasileiros-ja-utilizam-criptomoedas-diz-pesquisa-da-visa/

I think we may have too many fake accounts in local exchanges, which may be inflating this number. Even 30% may be too much..

zasad@

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Quote from: bitmover on December 13, 2023, 05:14:10 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on December 13, 2023, 03:14:24 PM

At this rate, in 5 years the whole world will be using stablecoins instead of payment systems.

I think stable coins are amazing for people who live in developing countries, where fiat is much worse than usd or euro.

as you mentioned they are making "significantly easier for people and businesses to move, store and own " usd around the world.

However, I don't see their adoption growing that fast in the past years. Credit cards are still the number one option for me when paying something with fiat currencies.

A bank card is more convenient than cryptocurrencies, but banks are unreliable and many banks charge a percentage for storing assets. If you lock TRON for 400 dollars, you can get a good number of free transactions in this ecosystem or enjoy cheap commissions in Polygon. Once stablecoin transactions become nearly free, banks will no longer be needed for cross-border settlements.

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I never doubt we will forced to use stablecoins aka CBDC, but my question is, how can they use stablecoins as a payment options? AFAIK there's no country yet legalized stablecoins as legal tender, isn't illegal to use stablecoins directly as a currency?

Quote from: bitmover on December 13, 2023, 05:14:10 PM

I think stable coins are amazing for people who live in developing countries, where fiat is much worse than usd or euro.

But we can own foreign currency using local banks, the difference is the way to obtain it. Using local banks need to follow their complicated rules, while in cryptocurrency we can just buy it directly through exchange.

Topic: Stablecoins are killing payment systems (Read 257 times)