Staking is not for Muslims - page 3.

Willitivity

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Quote from: KryptoKings on March 17, 2021, 03:06:44 PM

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

Forgive me for asking, but which part of the Muslim laws states that staking is a sin or a crime, even though I don't know about the Muslim laws, I still think there's nothing wrong with someone staking their cryptocurrency to earn more, tbh I thought an hero member would understand more about crypto than I do but it seems we are all still learning, instead of condemning staking I would advice you search and read about staking first, then ask yourself if it's a sin or not, don't just jump into conclusion.

lienfaye

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Quote from: pixie85 on March 22, 2021, 04:47:38 PM

If the law he's quoting is real, then it was made for the purpose of discouraging people from taking advantage of other people's poverty. It was not meant to stop them from making money!

So its better to say or what op point is if you lend dont ask for interest?

Im not certain if there's kind of law existing on muslim.
But based on my encounter to them, thats not how it is.
It might be depend on each member's stance on staking/lending.

pixie85

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on March 22, 2021, 03:10:30 PM

Sorry but this is hilarious to me, I mean, yes am not a Muslim but I do have many muslim friends I do business with and they've never mentioned anything like this to me, Infact, the reason why this is so hilarious to me is because, I have a muslim friend who always lend me money anything I need it for money, and I always pay him back with interest, huge interest at that.
So am kind of wondering what this friends of mine really are if this is actually a law in the Muslim religion.... Really unbelievable.

If the law he's quoting is real, then it was made for the purpose of discouraging people from taking advantage of other people's poverty. It was not meant to stop them from making money!

Staking is not taking advantage of someone. It's making money by helping transactions to confirm. You stake your coins as a safety to prove that you will not try to cheat the system and allow double spent transactions. It's not stealing from anyone, nobody will lose money because you decide to stake!

Fivestar4everMVP

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Sorry but this is hilarious to me, I mean, yes am not a Muslim but I do have many muslim friends I do business with and they've never mentioned anything like this to me, Infact, the reason why this is so hilarious to me is because, I have a muslim friend who always lend me money anything I need it for money, and I always pay him back with interest, huge interest at that.
So am kind of wondering what this friends of mine really are if this is actually a law in the Muslim religion.... Really unbelievable.

mdzahed134

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Quote from: btcltcdigger on March 22, 2021, 08:18:55 AM

Quote from: KryptoKings on March 17, 2021, 03:06:44 PM

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

And i would suggest to separate religion from practicality.
Many muslims do far worse stuff than gain interest on their money. And i know a lot of muslims who have no issue with interest.

Bro if some Muslims do it, then it is not valid(halal) for everyone else. If there is a law in their religion, it is depend who will follow it or not. Some people’s don’t care about their profits like as where are their profits coming from but some are very concern and they adhere to their religion very strictly. So don't judging from one side.

uneng

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Are muslims forbidden from lending money or from practicing usury? Because these are two different things.

Usury is related to abusive loans interest that will prejudice the borrower, but not all loans work this way. There are fair deals which benefit both sides, the lender and the borrower, and staking is one of them.

As a lender you help someone who doesn't have money right now and as reward you earn some percentage over the total sum;
As a borrower you have instant money to develop your business or project, consequently making money for yourself through it and using part of your profit to repay the loan.

Without a loan many people wouldn't have money to start their businesses. And without a lender there wouldn't be money to be borrowed. So I think it's precipitate to classify lending or staking as usury. It's quite the opposite: by lending you are actually helping people to turn their plans into reality.

noormcs5

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Quote from: fia_naila on March 22, 2021, 08:12:59 AM

It is different between staking in crypto and deposit to the bank, staking in crypto you get the gain from exchanger fee, while in the bank you got the gain from lending it to other, how ever it is still debatable between is it Riba or no. And if you still saying its haram you can just take from capital gain not from staking.

Its seems that staking is not legit in Islam but if anyone is doubtful he can ask this issue from the religious scholars. They better know the religion and can give better suggestions on this staking income.

Many people here think this is ridiculous behavior from the muslims but muslims give priority to religion than to gain any other benefit.

palle11

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Quote from: Luffygroove on March 22, 2021, 05:53:04 AM

with all due respect sir, in the Muslim religion, cryptocurrency itself is still doubtful, so probably you need to consider more about your engagement with this whole thing.

Countries that have been against bitcoin itself are majorly Islamic countries. That is where Op's point can even be looked at. I think he can reconsider being here and entering for signature campaign because lately, the companies opening up campaigns are gambling sites to advertise their businesses.

btcltcdigger

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Quote from: KryptoKings on March 17, 2021, 03:06:44 PM

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

And i would suggest to separate religion from practicality.
Many muslims do far worse stuff than gain interest on their money. And i know a lot of muslims who have no issue with interest.

fia_naila

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It is different between staking in crypto and deposit to the bank, staking in crypto you get the gain from exchanger fee, while in the bank you got the gain from lending it to other, how ever it is still debatable between is it Riba or no. And if you still saying its haram you can just take from capital gain not from staking.

zasad@

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Quote from: Luffygroove on March 22, 2021, 05:53:04 AM

with all due respect sir, in the Muslim religion, cryptocurrency itself is still doubtful, so probably you need to consider more about your engagement with this whole thing. Staking itself from some source that I read is the process of actively participating in transaction validation (similar to mining) on a proof-of-stake (PoS) blockchain. On these blockchains, anyone with a minimum-required balance of a specific cryptocurrency can validate transactions and earn Staking rewards. So it's not the same at all with what you've been described.

Staking is used not only in proof-of-stake (PoS) mining.
When using various DeFi projects, you can stake your coins and receive rewards for this in the same coins or others. The author said that this is prohibited.
For other questions regarding proof-of-stake (PoS) mining or I would like to get an answer, because in my opinion it is a little different than regular staking.
I already wrote what you need to do a node or rent and monitor its work.

Ziskinberg

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Are all Muslim strictly abiding this law? So would you explain a bit why staking is against the Muslim's belief or law. Banks are even lending money, and I guess there are Muslims also who run a banking business.... I'd like to be enlighten about this as I just knew it in here.

Luffygroove

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with all due respect sir, in the Muslim religion, cryptocurrency itself is still doubtful, so probably you need to consider more about your engagement with this whole thing. Staking itself from some source that I read is the process of actively participating in transaction validation (similar to mining) on a proof-of-stake (PoS) blockchain. On these blockchains, anyone with a minimum-required balance of a specific cryptocurrency can validate transactions and earn Staking rewards. So it's not the same at all with what you've been described.

poodle63

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I've heard about this islamic law aswell when watching in reddit that opposes any kind of interests but I wonder what's your view on staking as a validator that usually can get you money from validating transaction and it's not like there's any harmful thing in it since the money generated from people paying for gas as reward for your service and from the block reward aswell.

Lantind

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Quote from: KryptoKings on March 22, 2021, 03:49:02 AM

You can buy, hold and even sell crypto assets. You don't need to be part of speculation.
It is haraam when you buy some asset just by assuming it's price will go up and you will sell it.
Similarly if you sell some asset because you assume it's price will fall.
This is speculation. You can invest in some good halal crypto project and hold its tokens.

Strongly agree with what you are saying because the specific goal is to eliminate haram that can happen accidentally on the work we have done, so this is obviously very good in my opinion even though I myself have never joined staking, but this is It becomes interesting to discuss when there are several people who know about staking perfectly.

electronicash

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: KryptoKings on March 22, 2021, 03:49:02 AM

Quote from: electronicash on March 22, 2021, 12:33:01 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

This my first time of hearing this and very informed about Muslim laws and have not seen any where were it States getting interest on investment is forbidden, if there is any where in the Muslim laws were this is stated please point out that portion for us.

If you are a Muslim, you can ask the cleric who is in your place or in a regular recitation in your environment, I am sure you will get what you are looking for here, because Islamic law will not be the same as the law of any country, so please choose first between Islamic law and state law.

from the previous posts, i can see some users are generally speaking about speculation being not allowed in Muslim law which whether this is lending or not. but this is cryptocurrency that is entirely about the speculation of prices. if the law says speculations are indeed not allowed so all Muslims couldn't participate in crypto/Bitcoin investments?

You can buy, hold and even sell crypto assets. You don't need to be part of speculation.
It is haraam when you buy some asset just by assuming it's price will go up and you will sell it.
Similarly if you sell some asset because you assume it's price will fall.
This is speculation. You can invest in some good halal crypto project and hold its tokens.

The goal of everyone buying or holding cryptocurrency is of course to benefit from it, they won't want to buy crypto just to save money into it. In Islāmic law there is indeed a prohibition on getting very large interest returns from investing, such as investing or deposits in local banks that do not cover the provisions of Islāmic sharia. but I think it's legitimate to trade in cryptocurrency because it's like trading anything else

buying a token and hold it for short or long term means you are speculating to gain from it. that's still speculating which means its not allowed.

its sort of a gray area for Muslim in crypto but if they are going to look at BTC or any other crypto as a currency that they will use to buy something i guess it could be. but the intention is what is going to be subjected which i don't think anyone could figure what is your intention of buying a coin.

blockman

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Quote from: ?? on ??

This my first time of hearing this and very informed about Muslim laws and have not seen any where were it States getting interest on investment is forbidden, if there is any where in the Muslim laws were this is stated please point out that portion for us.

It's his assumption that it's not for them. He has explained the reason why he thinks as it's not allowed for them.
But his reasoning seems flawed. You can read that on his reply (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56593159).

KryptoKings

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Quote from: electronicash on March 22, 2021, 12:33:01 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

This my first time of hearing this and very informed about Muslim laws and have not seen any where were it States getting interest on investment is forbidden, if there is any where in the Muslim laws were this is stated please point out that portion for us.

If you are a Muslim, you can ask the cleric who is in your place or in a regular recitation in your environment, I am sure you will get what you are looking for here, because Islamic law will not be the same as the law of any country, so please choose first between Islamic law and state law.

from the previous posts, i can see some users are generally speaking about speculation being not allowed in Muslim law which whether this is lending or not. but this is cryptocurrency that is entirely about the speculation of prices. if the law says speculations are indeed not allowed so all Muslims couldn't participate in crypto/Bitcoin investments?

You can buy, hold and even sell crypto assets. You don't need to be part of speculation.
It is haraam when you buy some asset just by assuming it's price will go up and you will sell it.
Similarly if you sell some asset because you assume it's price will fall.
This is speculation. You can invest in some good halal crypto project and hold its tokens.

crwth

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Quote from: LogitechMouse on March 22, 2021, 12:43:31 AM

Quote from: crwth on March 17, 2021, 05:56:28 PM

~snip

When I read the OP's post, I laughed for a while until I saw your post that interest is banned on them.

I don't know much about Muslims and how they do their finances thing but I just did a couple of searches as well just to understand what the OP is talking about. Most of the members rushed to the conclusion already and didn't ask the OP what he really meant or something.

Quote from: LogitechMouse on March 22, 2021, 12:43:31 AM

Quote

Ijara or leasing: Instead of issuing a loan for a customer to buy a product like car, the bank buys the product and then leases it to the customer. The customer acquires the item at the end of the lease contract.

So technically, they don't own the car. Just temporarily. I think it's quite common to physical assets that are expensive but not so much for HODL-ing coins, don't you think?

LogitechMouse

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Quote from: crwth on March 17, 2021, 05:56:28 PM

When I searched for this topic, I stumbled upon many articles and seen that interest is banned on their finance. So I'm not sure how banks operate in the major Muslim countries, but how do they make money?

Like the other members said, Staking and Lending are different features depending on the coin/token. Maybe specify a more specific scenario?

When I read the OP's post, I laughed for a while until I saw your post that interest is banned on them.
Base on this article: https://www.gfmag.com/topics/blogs/what-products-does-islamic-finance-offer
Looks like they have many ways in order for them to get profit like this one.

Quote

Ijara or leasing: Instead of issuing a loan for a customer to buy a product like car, the bank buys the product and then leases it to the customer. The customer acquires the item at the end of the lease contract.

Now regarding with the OP, like many have said here Staking and Lending are 2 different things. I have staked some of my coins but it doesn't mean that I lend it to them because if you lend them, its pretty sure that they will use it for the borrowers which isn't the case in staking.

Topic: Staking is not for Muslims - page 3. (Read 1255 times)