Staking is not for Muslims - page 4.

electronicash

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This my first time of hearing this and very informed about Muslim laws and have not seen any where were it States getting interest on investment is forbidden, if there is any where in the Muslim laws were this is stated please point out that portion for us.

If you are a Muslim, you can ask the cleric who is in your place or in a regular recitation in your environment, I am sure you will get what you are looking for here, because Islamic law will not be the same as the law of any country, so please choose first between Islamic law and state law.

from the previous posts, i can see some users are generally speaking about speculation being not allowed in Muslim law which whether this is lending or not. but this is cryptocurrency that is entirely about the speculation of prices. if the law says speculations are indeed not allowed so all Muslims couldn't participate in crypto/Bitcoin investments?

Teraboy

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Quote from: JNR on March 21, 2021, 04:46:18 PM

Quote from: KryptoKings on March 17, 2021, 03:06:44 PM

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

i'am a muslim, but i disagree with your statement buddy
seems you don't understand about staking and its compeletely different with lending,
hopefully you will try to understand more about staking and change your mind my friend

As far as i know that staking is about people are putting their coins into the network to be even more decentralized. The stakers will be the same level as miners.
The users who have been using the blockchain will be charged by the fees or commission that will be re-distributed again to the peole who have been staking their coins to help the network.
that's almost the same as dividend but in staking how much commission or divided for stakers will be based on how much token that staked in the network. I do agree with you if it's different with lending that people were putting their money to be borrowed by others.

JNR

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Quote from: KryptoKings on March 17, 2021, 03:06:44 PM

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

i'am a muslim, but i disagree with your statement buddy
seems you don't understand about staking and its compeletely different with lending,
hopefully you will try to understand more about staking and change your mind my friend

DU18

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if we continue to debate the law, of course this will take a long time and of course we must have strong arguments to be able to strengthen our opinion so that it can be accepted by others and I see that the members here have their own arguments like that. It is very very difficult to determine whose opinion is right and whose opinion is wrong, in this case I am a Muslim I am not arguing about the haram or halalness of crypto, but what is certain for me is listening to people who have a wide knowledge of religions (scholars) in decide whether it is lawful or not, but whatever we do, never legalize what is haram or otherwise forbid something that is lawful ...! do what you think is right and leave what you think is wrong because whatever we do is of course the consequences that we bear ourselves.

justdimin

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Quote from: KryptoKings on March 17, 2021, 03:06:44 PM

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

Well I am not against your belief. If you think staking is totally wrong according to your belief, then there is nothing wrong with staying away from it so that you don’t commit something wrong. Although I’m yet to understand the Muslim’s belief, but this is not the first time I am seeing this kind of comment, because I’ve seen someone who refused to make use of savings app just because they give interest on the Savings you make.

So I’m guessing this belief of Muslims prohibits them from investments, and since HODL’ing Bitcoin is also an investment, you shouldn’t be holding it I guess?Although I don’t see anything wrong with staking, and moreover the interest is just around 4%, and that aside , you’re not the one lending the money.

illnino

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I am surprised by such statements. Do you think it is really necessary to put your religious beliefs on the public display? Everyone is indifferent to the views, principles of other people. Here everyone discusses the problems and issues related to the crypto world, the rise or fall of the exchange rate, the change of crypto seasons. I don't know why we should care about someone's religion. But even if you can't place bets because of your faith, why are you posting threads on a forum dedicated to this?

Distinctin

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Quote from: mamesso on March 19, 2021, 09:07:50 AM

Quote from: Distinctin on March 19, 2021, 08:44:49 AM

Nice explanation, and I truly agree with that, if you are a real muslim, you should abide the law and live with peace. However, I do believe that there are muslims who are violating this, so hopefully they'll realize that the law is very important and it should be followed.

As Muslims who adhere to the teachings of their religion, they will always comply with legal provisions that are clearly prohibited, in this case usury. Even though there are still violators, it's his business with his god.

I understand that and I understand how strict the law of Muslim.
In our country, the law of the church and the law of the state is different as I don't live in a Muslim country although we have muslim brothers in our country.

Quote from: mamesso on March 19, 2021, 09:07:50 AM

Quote from: Distinctin on March 19, 2021, 08:44:49 AM

I'm not a muslim and this is not against in our teaching, but I will respect my muslim brothers here.

Thank you for the tolerance, even though we here have differences in belief, but mutual respect will always lead to lasting peace.

Of course, that's all I can give to my brothers here.

semobo

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Quote from: tygeade on March 19, 2021, 10:01:38 PM

I live in a nation that has a lot of Muslims and I can say that they do not care about this at all. There are some "sacred" stuff that they try not to do, like maybe eating pork, because that doesn't really change their life that much, hell I can eat pork and I do not even like it, but when it comes to making money, they do not care about it, here they call it "profit sharing" and still do it, it is same thing as interest and just a different name and they still do it, so basically it is all about what others would say, as long as others do not hear about it, they would be willing to do whatever they can.

I have seen way too many things they have done that is a sin in Islam, but I have seen many many Christians do it too, so it is not really about the religion, it is about people and we as humans are not fine with being told what we can or can't do.

When people misunderstood the what is the purpose of such rule will stop blocking any developments. In the past people used to collect insane amount of interest from the people which is unbearable at that time but now everything organized into a system so its okay to take loans and pay the interest because not everyone in this world can live on their savings alone in the fast moving world.

KryptoKings

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Quote from: zasad@ on March 19, 2021, 02:08:56 AM

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on March 18, 2021, 09:53:20 PM

You know what is confusing to me? It is that you guys are trying to look at all things using the lens of religion. What if Islam doesn't really have anything to say about PoS? What if Islam is completely blind about staking? What if Islam really doesn't have instructions and rules on all things in life, especially ones which involve the latest financial technologies?

I think you are all subjectively interpreting things and forcing them to fit to your religious beliefs.

No wonder. You are reading the dialogue of users, most of whom have no knowledge of Islamic finance.
There is no subjective interpretation in Islam. I wrote above what are the minimum requirements you need to have in order to answer questions and draw conclusions.
If you read the opinions of Islamic scholars, then for each conclusion you will find a list of proofs that this scholar was guided by.
To become a scientist, you have to study all your life.
The Islamic financial system is the most progressive in the world, if you compare it with other religious systems, you will not find detailed interpretations in them.

It has nothing to do with technology. It is about how it is used. Like using a mobile or laptop is not haram per se but watching porn on them is haram.
Similarly if validator stakes, he is (to some extent) allowed but if you deligate you coins and stake, you are actually lending ( no matter what term you use) him your coins to perform a task and in return he will give you some amount of coins. The problem here is your number of coins you stake remain safe. There is no risk of losing them.

tygeade

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I live in a nation that has a lot of Muslims and I can say that they do not care about this at all. There are some "sacred" stuff that they try not to do, like maybe eating pork, because that doesn't really change their life that much, hell I can eat pork and I do not even like it, but when it comes to making money, they do not care about it, here they call it "profit sharing" and still do it, it is same thing as interest and just a different name and they still do it, so basically it is all about what others would say, as long as others do not hear about it, they would be willing to do whatever they can.

I have seen way too many things they have done that is a sin in Islam, but I have seen many many Christians do it too, so it is not really about the religion, it is about people and we as humans are not fine with being told what we can or can't do.

KryptoKings

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Quote from: DU18 on March 18, 2021, 03:36:40 PM

Quote from: kenelmark on March 18, 2021, 07:20:30 AM

Quote from: KryptoKings on March 17, 2021, 03:06:44 PM

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

Yes, thank you for this very valuable warning because I am also a Muslim here and as long as I am in crypto, I always avoid programs that smell of usury and that smell of gambling, so that I don't like games, betting, and also stake.

Gambling, porn and usury are the most hated things in Islam and of course those of us who are unfamiliar with Islamic law are certainly not allowed to say something that is not really an expert in that matter, so it is better for us to do what we think is right and leaving what has been forbidden, indeed in Islam it is forbidden to give loans by asking for rewards (interest), but we should indeed wait for the fatwas issued by scholars who are experts in Islamic law, including about crypto staking today.

And until such fatwas are issued, what should we do? Continue dealing in all cryptos?. I would prefer to be on safer side and stay away from it.
No fatwa can make halal thing haram Or vice versa.

mamesso

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Quote from: bitgov on March 19, 2021, 10:19:04 AM

~snip~ There is nothing wrong in lending someone money and fixing a profit on that lending.

Indeed there is nothing wrong in lending money to someone, if the lender does not require the borrower to pay more than the nominal loaned. For example like this, someone lends money with a value of $100, and sues the borrower to pay $120, if there is such a demand, it will be said to be usury in Islam.

criket

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Quote from: bitgov on March 19, 2021, 10:19:04 AM

Quote from: KryptoKings on March 17, 2021, 03:06:44 PM

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

OP please come with strong evidence that it's not for Muslims and not allowed in Islam. There is nothing wrong in lending someone money and fixing a profit on that lending.

OP thinks staking tokens or coins on the multiple platforms that provide the system is the same as lending money to people and asking for bigger returns.
The bank has also adopted a system like that which the OP might think of as interest on the money we put in the bank.
I think some sharia-based banks also adopt a similar system. but they call it profit-sharing from the money they put in the bank.
what sets them apart?
does the OP still keep the money in a piggy bank? or does he keep all his money under his bed?
I think stake is not interesting, stake is a reward given to participants who take part in a program.

Golftech

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Quote from: paxmao on March 19, 2021, 09:39:03 AM

I think this is open for interpretation. Firstly, it depends on what you consider core to your beliefs and the bit about lending may not be strictly taken by many of your bros. On top of that, while you do get a yield from staking, is not a payment for a lending and that is something that is not well understood:

You are right, this is really an open interpretations and for sure there are always two sides of

understanding, we can't force anyone from thier views about this matter.

Quote from: paxmao on March 19, 2021, 09:39:03 AM

Staking means that you are providing a counterpart to a possible malicious attack on a network by making economic stake on the truthfulness of the node's computation and transactions veracity. This is NOT lending, this is providing a service consisting of ensuring the safety of a network and you get paid for it.

A different thing is to consider it a bad or a good business.

This is a good explanation especially to those who wanted to understand more deeper in terms
of staking, you are providing service to the entire chain, you are not just letting your money to
work for you and collect your profits but you are also helping the entire system to make sure that
the flow is smoothly moving accordingly.

masulum

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hmph..

Quote from: paxmao on March 19, 2021, 09:39:03 AM

Staking means that you are providing a counterpart to a possible malicious attack on a network by making economic stake on the truthfulness of the node's computation and transactions veracity. This is NOT lending, this is providing a service consisting of ensuring the safety of a network and you get paid for it.

Your explanation is very clear, so I think this topic has found the answer and has also been discussed by members in the comments on the previous page. In staking, we create new money, and this is not interest. Maybe they think this is haram because many projects call it interest, but it is not the case. The intended of interest is a reward. This reward is given because the owner of the coin helps the coin network more save, So, this is not interest but like salaries for your works.

bitgov

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Quote from: KryptoKings on March 17, 2021, 03:06:44 PM

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

OP please come with strong evidence that it's not for Muslims and not allowed in Islam. There is nothing wrong in lending someone money and fixing a profit on that lending.

paxmao

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I think this is open for interpretation. Firstly, it depends on what you consider core to your beliefs and the bit about lending may not be strictly taken by many of your bros. On top of that, while you do get a yield from staking, is not a payment for a lending and that is something that is not well understood:

Staking means that you are providing a counterpart to a possible malicious attack on a network by making economic stake on the truthfulness of the node's computation and transactions veracity. This is NOT lending, this is providing a service consisting of ensuring the safety of a network and you get paid for it.

A different thing is to consider it a bad or a good business.

worldofcoins

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Quote from: KryptoKings on March 17, 2021, 03:06:44 PM

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

But why are telling muslim brothers of yours this?
I don’t think it’s bad if they’re making good money out of it which is in a legal way.

Can you state that exact reasons to why you’re proposing this request?

bitbollo

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staking is also a way that is used for have "security" in a blockchain and processing block/transactions.
What about from this point of view? I am not muslim so It can be wrong....
Moreover there are some coins that provide a very little income (more or less a 1% yearly). This is an amount like yearly inflation...

Fundamentals Of

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Quote from: zasad@ on March 19, 2021, 02:08:56 AM

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on March 18, 2021, 09:53:20 PM

You know what is confusing to me? It is that you guys are trying to look at all things using the lens of religion. What if Islam doesn't really have anything to say about PoS? What if Islam is completely blind about staking? What if Islam really doesn't have instructions and rules on all things in life, especially ones which involve the latest financial technologies?

I think you are all subjectively interpreting things and forcing them to fit to your religious beliefs.

No wonder. You are reading the dialogue of users, most of whom have no knowledge of Islamic finance.
There is no subjective interpretation in Islam. I wrote above what are the minimum requirements you need to have in order to answer questions and draw conclusions.
If you read the opinions of Islamic scholars, then for each conclusion you will find a list of proofs that this scholar was guided by.
To become a scientist, you have to study all your life.
The Islamic financial system is the most progressive in the world, if you compare it with other religious systems, you will not find detailed interpretations in them.

But are not all these interpretations also? Whether they are scholars or not, they are interpreting. This means that whatever interpretations they come up with, these are all subject to human error, bias, and prejudice. I am sure the old writings of the religion of Islam does not provide outright instructions particularly on cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, blockchain, staking, etc. I am also quite sure that within these topics, disagreements among experts and scholars exist.

Topic: Staking is not for Muslims - page 4. (Read 1255 times)