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Topic: Standard practice for online Casinos going under - how are cash outs handled? (Read 273 times)

legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 3014
It got me wondering , what is standard practice for closing an online casino and what laws (if any) must be followed when doing so? Is there a such thing as “international casino laws” ?  (Probably a ridiculous question but had to ask anyhow)
If the casino is well organized there should a commonsensical and organized process of closure even in the absence of a law. The casino should already have their process written while they were writing their business plan. I know that in each document for a business plan there is always a place where they will write what happens when there is a dissolution of the business. And aside informing their customers to withdraw their funds way ahead of the closing time, they are also to inform the licensing and regulatory body of their shut down. This body would now check to see if they have no outstanding debts before going ahead to approve it.

Well and said and above all, simply logical.

Seen enough repeat replies of nothingness at this point. Locking.
hero member
Activity: 1120
Merit: 887
Livecasino.io
It got me wondering , what is standard practice for closing an online casino and what laws (if any) must be followed when doing so? Is there a such thing as “international casino laws” ?  (Probably a ridiculous question but had to ask anyhow)
If the casino is well organized there should a commonsensical and organized process of closure even in the absence of a law. The casino should already have their process written while they were writing their business plan. I know that in each document for a business plan there is always a place where they will write what happens when there is a dissolution of the business. And aside informing their customers to withdraw their funds way ahead of the closing time, they are also to inform the licensing and regulatory body of their shut down. This body would now check to see if they have no outstanding debts before going ahead to approve it.
legendary
Activity: 3080
Merit: 1292
Hhampuz for Campaign management
I have to think any of the US regulated ones would have to follow standard laws under US guidelines but most of them are in offshore mostly unregulated areas.  So I would think in those cases the money just "disappears".  Good faith on them to offer a deadline at all I guess.  Because in reality they could just vanish and then what's the reprocussions?

Even if casinos act like luckybit and give you 2 weeks to withdraw this isn't even close to what legit companies do. Just look what many exchanges had to to to lawfully shut down. ThHey would keep support team for months, allowing people to withdraw. They'd send multiple emails to customers to let them know what's going on and how much time they have left. It wouldn't be done like this - hey, I'll just write this message on the forum so you know you have 2 weeks and then it's gone Cheesy

I think this depends on their license provider. Rules should be based on their regulators, and they have to follow them to give ample time for gamblers to withdraw their funds before they finally close shop. One month, in my opinion, is a short period of time, but they can give one month to withdraw while the casino is still online. They should also provide other ways to contact them once the website is offline.

In short, they should not forfeit any funds that aren't withdrawn. Instead, they should have another party handle it or follow what their regulator recommends to ensure the gambler will get their assets. A closing shop should also be audited by its regulator to ensure safe and proper accounting of the remaining funds.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1360
Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody
I have to think any of the US regulated ones would have to follow standard laws under US guidelines but most of them are in offshore mostly unregulated areas.  So I would think in those cases the money just "disappears".  Good faith on them to offer a deadline at all I guess.  Because in reality they could just vanish and then what's the reprocussions?

Even if casinos act like luckybit and give you 2 weeks to withdraw this isn't even close to what legit companies do. Just look what many exchanges had to to to lawfully shut down. ThHey would keep support team for months, allowing people to withdraw. They'd send multiple emails to customers to let them know what's going on and how much time they have left. It wouldn't be done like this - hey, I'll just write this message on the forum so you know you have 2 weeks and then it's gone Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 616
Merit: 271
After reading lots of replies on these post, I have come to a conclusion that gambling with regulated casinos will save us  the risk of losing everything if a casino eventually goes bankrupt or wind-up, at least to some extent the safety of the gamblers are guaranteed since these casinos are accountable to the regulatory bodies in their countries and are still subjected to periodic audits. If things go wrong in a regulated casino, the gamblers will definitely be informed on the next line of action to take, this cannot be compared to most casinos that are not regulated and are not accountable to anything.

I do not believe that the government of a country is only interested in gaining financially from casinos without really having the interest of the people at heart. If the gamblers sense that the government don't care, then they should avoid depositing with the casinos.
legendary
Activity: 1820
Merit: 1207
If you are gambling from a country where gambling is illegal, then you are violating the terms of many casinos. I haven't read the terms and conditions of all casinos but I know that many of them include in their ToS that the user is gambling from a jurisdiction where gambling is legal.
I just checked one of popular casino in this forum, you're correct.

This is really tricky, blacklisted jurisdictions is still not enough, but they should check the listed countries that Curacao license forbid, and make sure if your country allow gambling.

If gambling is not legal in the country, wouldn't the casino be banned from operating in that country or at least the person would not be able to access their website or anything like that?
Nope, not all banned countries listed on the casino, and not all casinos blocked by local ISP.
legendary
Activity: 2660
Merit: 1261
-snip-
Since you asking the proof result, it's quite simple.

Just created a thread, with the pools between storing money in the casino (even with VAULT) or withdrawing the money. I believe people are more comfortable withdrawing their money but still the pools will be going to "withdraw the money". We are thinking from gambling fallacy and behavior (withdraw your winning or losing all the deposit). The reason why most of us do (deposit - withdraw - deposit - withdraw) rather than stored in vault even we all know (deposit-witdhraw-deposit-withdraw) make us complicated, is cause we scared to gambling the money we already won again to the casino.

If you want get a good result between these topic (with forum stats) creating pools thread will be great. More sense reason, why people storing money in casino either they want to participated in casino investment or there has some vault system (locked) to gain a portion allocation from profit revenue casino.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 641
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
-snip-
They announced here on btalk (assuming they did on their website as well Huh ) that they were closing and a deadline of final date to withdraw funds. It got me wondering , what is standard practice for closing an online casino and what laws (if any) must be followed when doing so? Is there a such thing as “international casino laws” ?  (Probably a ridiculous question but had to ask anyhow)
-snip-
To be honest, I know nothing about LuckyBit, but of course, if they announced the closure on Bitcointalk, they would have also done that on their websites and even sent out emails. However, there is nothing like an international casino law, which is one of the reasons why casinos behave as they like. How I wish this existed with strict enforcement. But sadly, each country has its casino laws and most often, they are not strict with it but are particular about the tax they gain from it.

So if a casino went bankrupt and was fair to announce it and also fulfil the disbursement of people's funds to them as promptly as possible, then we should praise such a casino, and not the regulation in most cases. This is because, if better regulated and standard companies could take ages to pay back their customers while others will never pay them back again due to lack of liquidity to do so, is the regulation not weak and faulty? This is common, so we should appreciate the casinos that did so and also know that regulation is not the key here but the integrity of the people behind the company.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 538
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
It got me wondering , what is standard practice for closing an online casino and what laws (if any) must be followed when doing so? Is there a such thing as “international casino laws” ?  (Probably a ridiculous question but had to ask anyhow)

The only practice that I know of is that if the casino is not a shady one, they will publicly announce their closure or even send emails to their customers asking them to withdraw their money from the casino. For cases like this that I am aware of, the casino usually gives a limited period of time for their customers to cash out their balance, and when the period is over, those who failed to withdraw their money cannot access it again, and there's nothing they can do about it because the casino earlier made an announcement about it.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 605
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
For a gambler to be too busy not to find not more than 20mins for days forgetting to making withdrawal of a bunch of winnings (not single win) in their gambling account, such scenario only explains one thing for me, which is that, the gambler has so much to his name already and that bunch in the account is some money they already can afford to lose.
Still not buying these
Not asking you buy into it, but it is what it is.


I have also find out that many forum members are quite more comfortable leaving their money stay as long as possible in their gambling account than they will do with CEX but they are forgetting one thing that these companies are both centralized and they share same risk nature.
From where did you get those claim?

The no such proof, people in the forum have more comfortable storing their money in casino. Even there has some things called vault, there always have 2 scenario. You withdraw the money you win or losing all of your deposit money.
You obvious saw what should be regarded as a proof from whence you quoted my reply in the first place.  What other proof do you want? Nonetheless, I found my statement of many to seem to be wrong but very a few persons does that.

 
Quote
Gambler, I believe 99% never leave money in casino. Even they're not withdraw the crypto they have, at least they will withdraw to personal wallet and just do (deposit-witdhraw-deposit withdraw) rather than leaving the money in casino.
You believe 99%! That's just an assumption still. Yeah, a lot of gamblers will want to withdraw their crypto to their personal wallet but definitely not 99%.
sr. member
Activity: 2618
Merit: 439
If you are gambling from a country where gambling is illegal, then you are violating the terms of many casinos. I haven't read the terms and conditions of all casinos but I know that many of them include in their ToS that the user is gambling from a jurisdiction where gambling is legal.
If gambling is not legal in the country, wouldn't the casino be banned from operating in that country or at least the person would not be able to access their website or anything like that?
Quote
Anyway, what I meant is that gambling regulations must have provided provisions that protect consumers. Unfortunately, this may not be implemented at all. Since it is provided, however, if one is serious in pursuing legal claims against a casino, one may choose to file them in the country where the casino is registered. I guess this is also included in the terms of casinos.
A casino is required to have clauses that protect their customers but they will always put their business first and foremost and if you are a customer who knows that you are breaking the law by gambling then you should have known better that if something were to happen you would have to suffer the consequences
hero member
Activity: 2926
Merit: 567
There is no standard practice; it is a subject that is untouched by regulators. Unlike their offline versions, the regulations and guidelines for how casino operators will implement their players' withdrawals when they close out are left to the casino operators.

Of course, it always favors casinos. They are going to make it fair if they have a plan to return, but if they are closing for good, they will still try to milk their players. So do not stock your coin in a gambling platform unless you consider it something that you are okay losing in whatever situation.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1860
But, of course, casino users are protected by local regulations. The question, however, is whether these legal protections provided by the law are implemented. Surely, Curacao, from which the great majority of crypto casinos are getting their licenses, isn't that strict in seeing to it that casino users are sufficiently protected.
Casino users aren't really protected by local regulations if the country only allows regulated online casinos which have land based casinos operated in the country.

What's funny if gambling is prohibited in their country, but they get scammed from online casinos, they can't do anything. If they report they're being scammed and they can get the money, they will going to jail for broke the laws.

If you are gambling from a country where gambling is illegal, then you are violating the terms of many casinos. I haven't read the terms and conditions of all casinos but I know that many of them include in their ToS that the user is gambling from a jurisdiction where gambling is legal.

Anyway, what I meant is that gambling regulations must have provided provisions that protect consumers. Unfortunately, this may not be implemented at all. Since it is provided, however, if one is serious in pursuing legal claims against a casino, one may choose to file them in the country where the casino is registered. I guess this is also included in the terms of casinos.
hero member
Activity: 2870
Merit: 574
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
If the casino has their morale, they will announce their shut down of operations officially Can be thru email or via their website itself. But for some which already has internal problems specially with financial aspect, they will abandon the site without a warning. You will understood if they are having problems if they you can't get out your funds anymore.
That is right because they will let all of their member know about the decision they make and with the email they send to their members, they hope their members will aware. Casino hopes their member will withdraw all of their assets so they will not face any problem with their decision to shut down the site.
But not many casino site doing that because casino with bad reputation will just shut down their casino and leave their members even their members will not let to withdraw their money. That will gives a problem to their members because the money left in the casino but they can not complain as the site is close their services.
Usually, casino will give some term to withdraw their member's money so their members should use that time to withdraw their money.
hero member
Activity: 1974
Merit: 502
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
You shouldn't trust online casino's platform, you might put your money in danger or loss all of it if you don't keep in mind that the vulnerability of being scammed is always a huge potential.
Even how prominent are they, your negative chances is always their to exist that's why it's good to anticipate certain situations rather than ignoring it. Many complains raging against online transactions, how much more with unlicensed gambling or illegal platforms? We're more prone of their attacks and traps that will consume our hard earned money.
legendary
Activity: 3122
Merit: 1102
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
From what I've seen, what happens is that the casino issues a statement and sends it by email so that all customers can withdraw all the money they have in the casino. In the statement that the casino issues and sends by email, they give a deadline for all customers to withdraw their money. For example, the casino can send an email warning people that they have 30 days to withdraw all their money and that after 30 days the casino will no longer be online. In this case, people who let 30 days go by without withdrawing money and then come and complain will not be right. Even if they complain in all the courts, they will not win the case.

This is a procedure that even physical casinos have used. When a physical casino is closing its doors, they put a notice in the newspapers and on TV so that people are aware and those who have some money to complain about can run to the casino and resolve the problem. Online casinos do not follow labor laws in any country, so it is easier for them to simply announce that they are closing and give people a deadline to withdraw money from their accounts, they have no bureaucracy

If the casino has their morale, they will announce their shut down of operations officially Can be thru email or via their website itself. But for some which already has internal problems specially with financial aspect, they will abandon the site without a warning. You will understood if they are having problems if they you can't get out your funds anymore.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 3014
As sunderland already said, there weren't many active gamblers on the site near the end when the owners decided to shutdown. Giving 2 weeks was plenty for the few to wd what was left on their balance.

I was working with the site at the end managing the mods and nothing felt shady to me or I would have disagreed with the time period they gave. If the platform was super active and had hundreds of players, i'm positive that more time would have been given. I'm sure if someone had a bunch on the site( quite sure noone did) and missed the deadline, they could have gotten in touch with LB support or me and gotten a payment handled. The owners in no way were out to fuck anyone.

It seems a few forum buddies who I respect a great deal/trust had some sort of dealings with them (like yourself Yahoo), but despite this, it doesn't connect you with the owners and the site extensively unless you knew the books in and out...right?  I wouldn't imagine you would have known these sort of details?  It's like w/Hhampuz, that's my brother who I trust a shit ton, and I know he does all he can to vet those he advertizes for, but if a company rugged and excited shadily, I wouldn't blame him.  How's he to know.  Just like I wouldn't put any of what I perceive as shady from LuckyBit on people like yourself.  You may have had a decent handle on active forum users, but what about those who weren't btalk members..how would you know how many of them existed and came in unknowingly to anyone, publicly.  I mean closing shop like, giving less than a 2 weeks notice..shady AF IMO.  Also if there were so few on the site, why would they not have reached out to everyone individually?  It seems DarkStar was wronged by them, and he's a trusted DT1 member here. Also, limited withdraws to a certain amount was fd up.  I get it if you're a huge casino (I GUESS), but not some small rinky dink deal like you mention.  Just pay a few satoshis in fees or take it out of the balance.  I dunno.  Doesn't seem that unshady to me, but..I hope that I'm mostly wrong here. ( on a positive note, football is near my friend Smiley  )

I appreciate everyone elses reponses.  Once I make sure I read everyone's through having to do with LuckyBit, will lock the thread.


Other things want to mention, which idiot who are storing funds in some casino? casino is not exchange/wallet (most people should deposit and withdraw) immediately after they finish the section gambling. These case only can be face, for some guy who are storing their money in casino.

Storing money in casino should be a crime, and people who do these need to go jail Grin
There are a bunch of situations where gamblers can easily forget their gambling money for quite a while and let it sit in their account. In my case, I had a bunch of winnings together with my deposit sitting around in my account back then for a few weeks because of my luck from winning a promotion or raffle. People can quickly become busy so we can't blame them if they still have money sitting at their gambling accounts.
For a gambler to be too busy not to find not more than 20mins for days forgetting to making withdrawal of a bunch of winnings (not single win) in their gambling account, such scenario only explains one thing for me, which is that, the gambler has so much to his name already and that bunch in the account is some money they already can afford to lose.

I have also find out that many forum members are quite more comfortable leaving their money stay as long as possible in their gambling account than they will do with CEX but they are forgetting one thing that these companies are both centralized and they share same risk nature. I take pride in withdrawing my winnings to my wallet immediately I stop my gambling sessions.

If I could make time to gambling that long I should also make time for withdrawal, right?

This is utterly ridiculous to have a mindset like this. I leave sizable amounts of money on my casino balance for months at a time. I gamble a lot and I go through periods of not doing so and kind of "forgetting" about it.  I'm fuckin busy in life and "to not find more than 20mins for days"... lol  yeah "days' like that some huge amount of time.  People get busy, brotha.  I'm baffled by this logic of thinking.  Pride away with your withdraws but not everyone feels the need to take them out immediately, for several very legit reasons..I can't imagine not knowing what these reasons are but hey.


With luckybit, it was a shady exit. What’s crazy is the casino closure was announced on Jan 19th & users had until just Jan 31st to withdraw balances (even worse some balances were ineligible for withdraw , such as a .001btc balance and below ..and apparently even if you tried to make a deposit to top off your balance to qualify for a full withdrawal, it was seemingly not allowed).
As one of the regulars who were active on LuckyBit from the end of 2013 to 2021, I can confirm that the platform closed their service because the owners were very busy with their real life job, also one of the founders was even very well known in the XMR community and became Monero core Dev.
At that time/2021 there weren't many players actively playing on LB because there were only 2 games Plinko and Dice (original), from a business perspective it would certainly not be good for them.
So if you say it was a shady exit - I totally disagree.

Regarding withdrawal issues, the price of BTC at that time was $30k ish and transaction fees between $17 to $25, so that's one of the reasons why there was a minimum withdrawal of 0.002 BTC.
If players (perhaps only less than 5 players affected by this) were allowed to make deposits, it would actually be in vain because the fees were quite expensive at that time, for example:
Player A has 0.001 BTC, if he wants to withdraw 0.002 BTC then he has to deposit 0.001 BTC + fees around 0.0007 BTC = that is very ineffective.

Good lord I'm amazed at the bullshit people will put up with.  They are busy IRL with their jobs? Good for them, so the fuck am I and many others. This is also total horseshit as if this were the case, why were they offering bonuses on deposits up TO THE DAY they announced closing, and WHY set such a harsh and fast deadline date?  You are insane to defend this shit the way you have.  Yahoo's reply I get, yours, ridiculous logic.

btw transaction fees can bet set at what you want, and even one person stated that they'd like to deposit enough in their account to then fully withdraw EVERYTHING, and as far as I can see, publicly, they were ignored (waiting on if this remained the case).
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1006
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Talking about luckybit i just remember that i have been experience to playing at this site and before decide to shutdown their site the owner has been send email to the players that no more deposits at certain time and all players are encouraged to withdraw their balance immediately and the players shouldn't be worried about their funds because luckybit owner has been ensure that all of btc from the players are safe and since i was received this email they give me a time 3 weeks to withdraw all of my btc before this site is really shutdown and cannot be access
I think from this condition i made the conclusion that they have been done their standard procedure with very well about the players funds because 3 weeks is enough time to the players to withdraw their money from that site and i am sure all of the players can withdraw their money from this site before deadline date
legendary
Activity: 3346
Merit: 1914
Shuffle.com
I have also find out that many forum members are quite more comfortable leaving their money stay as long as possible in their gambling account than they will do with CEX but they are forgetting one thing that these companies are both centralized and they share same risk nature. I take pride in withdrawing my winnings to my wallet immediately I stop my gambling sessions.
I've seen others do the same on a couple of gambling sites, but i'm not sure if some of them are forum members. I used to do the same because it was the best solution back then when I still mainly used a bitcoin balance to gamble. You can't always move your money out after ending your session because the fees can quickly pile up with certain casinos as they don't follow the recommended fee and charge way higher than their competitors.

If I could make time to gambling that long I should also make time for withdrawal, right?
Most gamblers should be able to avoid that scenario, but there are rare cases between a few gamblers.
legendary
Activity: 3164
Merit: 1127
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
So what happens today if your Casino announces a closure? Do some casinos have some sort of “deposit offloading” where funds can sit and wait to be redeemed for an extended period of time? Are there any current “standard practices” to abide by?

From what I've seen, what happens is that the casino issues a statement and sends it by email so that all customers can withdraw all the money they have in the casino. In the statement that the casino issues and sends by email, they give a deadline for all customers to withdraw their money. For example, the casino can send an email warning people that they have 30 days to withdraw all their money and that after 30 days the casino will no longer be online. In this case, people who let 30 days go by without withdrawing money and then come and complain will not be right. Even if they complain in all the courts, they will not win the case.

This is a procedure that even physical casinos have used. When a physical casino is closing its doors, they put a notice in the newspapers and on TV so that people are aware and those who have some money to complain about can run to the casino and resolve the problem. Online casinos do not follow labor laws in any country, so it is easier for them to simply announce that they are closing and give people a deadline to withdraw money from their accounts, they have no bureaucracy
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