sorry but I have not bothered to read all the 5 pages on this subject but... think about it.
what does extreme volatility mean? it means only the most entrenched believers will stay and everyone knows the price will go up again as demand surges.
so what is the probable outcome of this? extreme distribution before the full ecosystem is fully running.
People will gamble, hedge their bets, transfer money, buy goods at a low level because of the instability, but the instability will disappear when it reaches a certain threshold causing the currency to flatline. Bitcoin is now worldwide there are nodes active in every single country at one moment or another; think about it, that is a Bitcoin seed being planted growing organically much like it did from the Genesis Block, the one who knows what it can be nurtures it, grows it, spreads its seeds and waits for the day that it is fully grown and ready to bare fruit.
Each barrier to growth is known,The White Paper; the creation story, the Genesis Block; the sharing,discussion among the experts, Lazlos Pizza; the experiment in its value, MtGox; the gathering, BitcoinJ; the world domination tour.
I was born in Honduras and I can tell you, everyone there has a phone... I can buy a phone that you buy here for 400-600 dollars for 50-100 dollars there because we don't have the same regulations that there are in the western countries, we buy direct from Korea, Japan, China. If the citizens of the most violent country in the world have access to all communication technology, what is to stop it from going there? language? culture? The major foundations of Bitcoin have been built, now it's time for the people of the world to embrace it through their cell phones.
The things to monitor I believe are the exchanges; They will be the marker of non-techies entering the market, it will die down when the Bitcoin ecosystem is more developed. When the ecosystem is fully built there will be direct ways for everyone to earn bitcoin without mining it, it will have become decentralized.
The ease of acquiring bitcoins; The systems of the world are closed, they flow from one to the other, spreading, converging like water does in nature; no one ever worries about finding money because it is everywhere to be found in its natural habitat, with a little effort you can get some yourself, so will it be with bitcoins; A closed system that flows when the time is right.
Everyone will accept it; you will know that bitcoin has arrived when the beggars on the street know and accept bitcoin too.
The language will change; A language that denotes doubt and discrimination or fear is one that speaks of greater fears, non-questioning denotes compliance acceptance. That moment will come when it is so easy that everyone else is doing it, you'll feel stupid to ask someone for help because everyone is doing it, why would you question it?
These things will come when the system is world wide when you have 7 billion people across the planet actively trying to get one coin it will be very hard to hoard. The level of hoarding will be extreme just before that moment arrives but it will be for small amounts because of the ever increasing difficulty of getting one and that is when the ecosystem will begin branching out, people will begin working for them.
The amount necessary for this is a market cap for Bitcoin of 42 billion USD, only a fraction of that will be circulated actively everyday; 6 bitcoins for every human being alive. the amount of active commerce will have to match the active movement of the currency that requires a lot of variety in purchasing power... don't look for single service providers look for meta-providers with thousands of products thats when you know the time for Bitcoin is near.
Topic: State of the Real Bitcoin Economy - page 5. (Read 14575 times)
So, what do you guys think is the way forward?
Bitcoin was used in online gaming but no service really had been "killing it". Then on April, 17th 2012, fireduck realized he was on to something. His new gambling site, 1209k was attracting more users than he felt comfortable handling so he sold the service which the new owner rebranded as SatoshiDICE and in a couple weeks the blockchain transaction chart started to hockey stick.
Within 30 days a "killer app" (online gambling seeing its "drop" hit millions of dollars worth each month) went from "could happen" to "happening before our very eyes".
We know there are dozens of "killer apps". The remittance industry is another one. Even if just the hawalders figured out the opportunity that Bitcoin provides them with, there's a huge amount of Bitcoin transactions that would result. Hawalders transfer money in which there is required trust between the intermediaries. Bitcoin disintermediates hawala -- breaking it down into there being simply two independent exchange transactions (i.e., bitcoins bought in one location, and bitcoins exchanged back to fiat in another).
Personally, I think the place Bitcoin will have the largest impact is with cyber-equities markets. This is currently the category known as "equity crowdfunding" but that is a category that today essentially does not exist due to regulatory friction. The JOBS act was passed more than a year ago and the SEC still is at least a half year away from finishing the rulemaking they are tasked with. Even then, what is available today on BitFunder, Cryptostocks, Picostocks, (or funds like Havelock offers) will not qualify for use in the U.S. due to various reasons, including how investment in those vehicles for speculation can be made anonymously -- and thus there is no method for the authorities to enforce tax laws.
But look at ASICMINER, which is possibly the most highly valued company ever to go the "equity crowdfunding" route. When there are more and more successes in companies who raised capital through these cyber-equities markets I expect that to be the catalyst for an unprecedented level of transaction activity for bitcoins.
WaverleyStreet could you please stop your annoying spam posts?
You are ruining a very interesting read.
I will ask you this once, otherwise you will be the very first person I actually put on my ignore list.
You are ruining a very interesting read.
I will ask you this once, otherwise you will be the very first person I actually put on my ignore list.
It's too useful as a store of value, and that utility will inevitably drive it into more people's hands, driving up the price, stabilizing the price with larger volume, boosting mining incentive to make the system more secure, and increasing development and infrastructural investment in a virtuous cycle.
I couldn't disagree more.
The reason bitcoin is valued in double digits currently is due to speculation that there will be greater demand for holding coins in the future and thus the current exchange rate is justified or undervalued even.
But what causes this demand to hold coins?
Simply as a store of value? Certainly, those who bought in early April and still hold those coins don't think bitcoin is such a great store of value. There are a number of stores of value with less risk than Bitcoin at these exchange rates.
When Bitcoin is used as a medium of exchange that creates demand for coins. You can't send a Bitcoin payment without first acquiring those coins. If a business receives coins as revenue and then will be using bitcoins in the future for purchasing goods and services, or paying out dividends, then the merchant is likely to hold a balance of coins for the short duration between when the revenue transaction occurred and when the spending will occur. Holding the coins for that short amount of time, though, decreases the quantity available for sale at the exchanges and, in aggregate, bitcoin gaining traction as a currency causes the exchange rate to rise.
It doesn't matter where the demand for bitcoins comes from ... whether it be as a means of exchange, remittance payments, speculation (hoarding), forex trading, etc., .... any coin that doesn't end up being sold means less resistance to a rising exchange rate.
The reason traction in retail and e-commerce is seen as so important by many is because of what it will do to the exchange rate if it happens. If it happens, a BTC/USD of $10,000 is not crazy talk. Without it, a BTC/USD of $2 might be the more fair valuation.
hold coins? how can you hold something invisible other than those "bitcoins" from Utah!!!LOL
>>>WTF!!!!!
Smoothie did you get banned again?
It's too useful as a store of value, and that utility will inevitably drive it into more people's hands, driving up the price, stabilizing the price with larger volume, boosting mining incentive to make the system more secure, and increasing development and infrastructural investment in a virtuous cycle.
I couldn't disagree more.
The reason bitcoin is valued in double digits currently is due to speculation that there will be greater demand for holding coins in the future and thus the current exchange rate is justified or undervalued even.
But what causes this demand to hold coins?
Simply as a store of value? Certainly, those who bought in early April and still hold those coins don't think bitcoin is such a great store of value. There are a number of stores of value with less risk than Bitcoin at these exchange rates.
When Bitcoin is used as a medium of exchange that creates demand for coins. You can't send a Bitcoin payment without first acquiring those coins. If a business receives coins as revenue and then will be using bitcoins in the future for purchasing goods and services, or paying out dividends, then the merchant is likely to hold a balance of coins for the short duration between when the revenue transaction occurred and when the spending will occur. Holding the coins for that short amount of time, though, decreases the quantity available for sale at the exchanges and, in aggregate, bitcoin gaining traction as a currency causes the exchange rate to rise.
It doesn't matter where the demand for bitcoins comes from ... whether it be as a means of exchange, remittance payments, speculation (hoarding), forex trading, etc., .... any coin that doesn't end up being sold means less resistance to a rising exchange rate.
The reason traction in retail and e-commerce is seen as so important by many is because of what it will do to the exchange rate if it happens. If it happens, a BTC/USD of $10,000 is not crazy talk. Without it, a BTC/USD of $2 might be the more fair valuation.
hold coins? how can you hold something invisible other than those "bitcoins" from Utah!!!LOL
>>>WTF!!!!!
It's too useful as a store of value, and that utility will inevitably drive it into more people's hands, driving up the price, stabilizing the price with larger volume, boosting mining incentive to make the system more secure, and increasing development and infrastructural investment in a virtuous cycle.
I couldn't disagree more.
The reason bitcoin is valued in double digits currently is due to speculation that there will be greater demand for holding coins in the future and thus the current exchange rate is justified or undervalued even.
But what causes this demand to hold coins?
Simply as a store of value? Certainly, those who bought in early April and still hold those coins don't think bitcoin is such a great store of value. There are a number of stores of value with less risk than Bitcoin at these exchange rates.
When Bitcoin is used as a medium of exchange that creates demand for coins. You can't send a Bitcoin payment without first acquiring those coins. If a business receives coins as revenue and then will be using bitcoins in the future for purchasing goods and services, or paying out dividends, then the merchant is likely to hold a balance of coins for the short duration between when the revenue transaction occurred and when the spending will occur. Holding the coins for that short amount of time, though, decreases the quantity available for sale at the exchanges and, in aggregate, bitcoin gaining traction as a currency causes the exchange rate to rise.
It doesn't matter where the demand for bitcoins comes from ... whether it be as a means of exchange, remittance payments, speculation (hoarding), forex trading, etc., .... any coin that doesn't end up being sold means less resistance to a rising exchange rate.
The reason traction in retail and e-commerce is seen as so important by many is because of what it will do to the exchange rate if it happens. If it happens, a BTC/USD of $10,000 is not crazy talk. Without it, a BTC/USD of $2 might be the more fair valuation.
You know, for a group of people using a currency supposedly built on a rejection of the "bubble-economics" of central banks, you guys sure sound like a bunch of dot-com investors claiming that the "old rules" no longer apply.
Here's a simple insight that I enjoyed:Quote
Money and a bubble are the same thing. Both are anomalously overvalued assets. Both obtain their anomalous value from the fact that many people have bought the asset, without any intention to use it, but only to exchange it for some other asset at a later date. The two can be distinguished only in hindsight. If it popped, it was a bubble. If not, money - so far.
Source: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.ca/2013/04/bitcoin-is-money-bitcoin-is-bubble.html
The bitcoin is valued at current price just because there are still many uncertainties, if everything has settled well, the price will be magnitudes higher due to very limited amount of coins in circulation
It is very funny, the purchase power of USD is maintained stable by people's belief that FED will follow their mandate to ensure the price stablility, although they know nothing about what FED is doing
Similarly, the purchasing power of bitcoin will always rise in long term, this consensus is also achieved by people's belief that bitcoin's total supply is fixed. As long as that belief do not get shaken, the consensus will not change easily
Current bitcoin investors hope to get as much coin as possible before the majority join the game, regardless of price. They are currently heavily invested in mining equipment instead of buying, because the historical return is higher, but when more mining equipment were made and the per equipment return dropped below the cost, some of them will start to buy coins
It is very funny, the purchase power of USD is maintained stable by people's belief that FED will follow their mandate to ensure the price stablility, although they know nothing about what FED is doing
Similarly, the purchasing power of bitcoin will always rise in long term, this consensus is also achieved by people's belief that bitcoin's total supply is fixed. As long as that belief do not get shaken, the consensus will not change easily
Current bitcoin investors hope to get as much coin as possible before the majority join the game, regardless of price. They are currently heavily invested in mining equipment instead of buying, because the historical return is higher, but when more mining equipment were made and the per equipment return dropped below the cost, some of them will start to buy coins
Silk road crime scene is fun for them however difficulty is rising selling bath salts due to customers aggressive use of drug testing kits!!!!
>>>BUMMER!!!!!!
The bitcoin is valued at current price just because there are still many uncertainties, if everything has settled well, the price will be magnitudes higher due to very limited amount of coins in circulation
It is very funny, the purchase power of USD is maintained stable by people's belief that FED will follow their mandate to ensure the price stablility, although they know nothing about what FED is doing
Similarly, the purchasing power of bitcoin will always rise in long term, this consensus is also achieved by people's belief that bitcoin's total supply is fixed. As long as that belief do not get shaken, the consensus will not change easily
Current bitcoin investors hope to get as much coin as possible before the majority join the game, regardless of price. They are currently heavily invested in mining equipment instead of buying, because the historical return is higher, but when more mining equipment were made and the per equipment return dropped below the cost, some of them will start to buy coins
It is very funny, the purchase power of USD is maintained stable by people's belief that FED will follow their mandate to ensure the price stablility, although they know nothing about what FED is doing
Similarly, the purchasing power of bitcoin will always rise in long term, this consensus is also achieved by people's belief that bitcoin's total supply is fixed. As long as that belief do not get shaken, the consensus will not change easily
Current bitcoin investors hope to get as much coin as possible before the majority join the game, regardless of price. They are currently heavily invested in mining equipment instead of buying, because the historical return is higher, but when more mining equipment were made and the per equipment return dropped below the cost, some of them will start to buy coins
Gambling is another market for people in places where online gambling is not legal, but where people wish to be free to do so.
Personally, I think that gambling and micro transactions, similar to Silk Road, are going to be growth areas for bitcoin. Kind of like porn was for VHS.
Personally, I think that gambling and micro transactions, similar to Silk Road, are going to be growth areas for bitcoin. Kind of like porn was for VHS.
Bitcoin features should be used to enter existing markets but also to create new markets where payments would be impossible or very difficult/dangerous/impractical to do.
This is what happened with Silk Road and now Atlantis. It made online purchases convenient, easy and safe even for difficult products and services.
This is what happened with Silk Road and now Atlantis. It made online purchases convenient, easy and safe even for difficult products and services.
Comparisons to the internet and it's growth are utterly irrelevent.
The internet allowed people to do so many things that just weren't possible before the internet and it has utterly transformed peoples lives and the methods of interactions, shopping, entertainment etc.
By comparison Bitcoin does virtually nothing that cannot be achieved already with money. It is a potential store of value/speculation, but at its heart was designed to be a payment mechanism and it has yet to prove to the masses that it is a better or cheaper payment mechanism than that which exists already.
As for the state of the Bitcoin economy, there are a number of BTC evangelists (mainly on here) who do buy stuff with Bitcoins, but the rest of the use is either gambling, illegal purchases or the biggest use of Bitcoin - buying it hoping that some other people will use it and it'll go up in value. Until that changes it's a rough-ride folks.
The internet allowed people to do so many things that just weren't possible before the internet and it has utterly transformed peoples lives and the methods of interactions, shopping, entertainment etc.
By comparison Bitcoin does virtually nothing that cannot be achieved already with money. It is a potential store of value/speculation, but at its heart was designed to be a payment mechanism and it has yet to prove to the masses that it is a better or cheaper payment mechanism than that which exists already.
As for the state of the Bitcoin economy, there are a number of BTC evangelists (mainly on here) who do buy stuff with Bitcoins, but the rest of the use is either gambling, illegal purchases or the biggest use of Bitcoin - buying it hoping that some other people will use it and it'll go up in value. Until that changes it's a rough-ride folks.
Bitcoin and TOR was intended to be used to support the U.S.A. to encourage whistleblowing and take down corrupted governments >> foundations etc!!!
.
>>>GOOD WORK!!!!!
Comparisons to the internet and it's growth are utterly irrelevent.
The internet allowed people to do so many things that just weren't possible before the internet and it has utterly transformed peoples lives and the methods of interactions, shopping, entertainment etc.
By comparison Bitcoin does virtually nothing that cannot be achieved already with money. It is a potential store of value/speculation, but at its heart was designed to be a payment mechanism and it has yet to prove to the masses that it is a better or cheaper payment mechanism than that which exists already.
As for the state of the Bitcoin economy, there are a number of BTC evangelists (mainly on here) who do buy stuff with Bitcoins, but the rest of the use is either gambling, illegal purchases or the biggest use of Bitcoin - buying it hoping that some other people will use it and it'll go up in value. Until that changes it's a rough-ride folks.
The internet allowed people to do so many things that just weren't possible before the internet and it has utterly transformed peoples lives and the methods of interactions, shopping, entertainment etc.
By comparison Bitcoin does virtually nothing that cannot be achieved already with money. It is a potential store of value/speculation, but at its heart was designed to be a payment mechanism and it has yet to prove to the masses that it is a better or cheaper payment mechanism than that which exists already.
As for the state of the Bitcoin economy, there are a number of BTC evangelists (mainly on here) who do buy stuff with Bitcoins, but the rest of the use is either gambling, illegal purchases or the biggest use of Bitcoin - buying it hoping that some other people will use it and it'll go up in value. Until that changes it's a rough-ride folks.
There is no Bitcoin economy and there never has been, it's all lies and deception to justify higher prices in the minds of a few bubble driven speculators. ASICs aren't an economy. The only thing we have are Silk Road and Satoshi Dice.
I disagree. If you look at all the products and services you can buy with bitcoins, and compare it to what you could buy with all of the other currencies ever invented and used by mankind throughout history, the bitcoin economy is one of the most successful economies in history. You can buy food, clothing, gadgets, services, consumables, etc. with bitcoins.
At least people are trying. It's like gardening: plant a lot of seeds and pull the weeds. I have young men and women down here in South Florida trying their hands at working with the unbanked locally, and small-scale traders in Latin America and the Caribbean.
It will be very interesting to see if Kipochi gets any traction in Africa, where Bitcoin addresses an real problem.
People in many parts of Sub-Saharan Africa already use their telephones to make purchases. However, because of over-regulation at the behest of IMF and World Bank advisers (read: Western/Northern government agents), a Kenyan using a Kenyan telephone cannot make purchases from a seller in Tanzania, whether the Kenyan is in Kenya or Tanzania, and vice versa.
Kipochi is a layer built atop Bitcoin that works not only on smartphones, but on more primitive 'feature phones' (i.e., text-only interfaces that can access the Internet). If it gets any traction in Kenya and other parts of Africa, it could spread and become a de facto standard for 'the world's second-largest economy'.
small-scale drug traders in Latin America and the Caribbean love bitcoin?
>>WTF!!!!
There is no Bitcoin economy and there never has been, it's all lies and deception to justify higher prices in the minds of a few bubble driven speculators. ASICs aren't an economy. The only thing we have are Silk Road and Satoshi Dice.
*shrug*
Whatever perspective suits you, I guess. The Bitcoin community continues developing, regardless.
Quote
Aside from that, all other economic indicators I know of like bitcoinstore.com, Humble Bundle sales figures, Reddit Gold figures etc. suggest that Bitcoin simply isn't a currency. If anything besides a store of value, it's a USD proxy to buy certain goods.
What does it matter that it's not a currency? Gold isn't either, yet it's still valuable, and won't be going away anytime soon (despite decades of anti-gold propaganda, no less.) Why is it that if there's not an overwhelming abundance of goods and services available solely for bitcoins, something must be wrong?
Quote
I do think that Bitcoin can work simply as a store of value, but actual uses would be a boost, and I'd suggest to look for uses where Bitcoin has not only an advantage, but uses which without Bitcoin would be impossible.
It's a digital currency. If you ignore it's key features (pseudonymous transactions, limited amount, decentralized,) then any other digital payment system can do what it does just as well, better in many cases. About the only thing that can be done that's impossible without Bitcoin is storing wealth anonymously without needing a third party (EDIT: and pseudonymously sending it across the planet without a middle-man.) That's it, it really has no other advantage. Because that's the one primary feature set it was designed to have.
The inevitable conclusion is, there's not going to be any trick or secret key, no undiscovered catalyst to accelerate the growth of the Bitcoin economy. Other than in the area of anonymous wealth storage (which doesn't require any real infrastructure,) it's just going to have to grow at the same slow, steady pace as anything else.
(EDIT: Also, private transactions are a potential, Bitcoin-only growth area, I suppose; the tricky part there is that we live in a society where most people don't value privacy very much, except those trying to evade societal controls. Guess that means we should be focusing on North Korea as our growth market?)
There is no Bitcoin economy and there never has been, it's all lies and deception to justify higher prices in the minds of a few bubble driven speculators. ASICs aren't an economy. The only thing we have are Silk Road and Satoshi Dice.
I disagree. If you look at all the products and services you can buy with bitcoins, and compare it to what you could buy with all of the other currencies ever invented and used by mankind throughout history, the bitcoin economy is one of the most successful economies in history. You can buy food, clothing, gadgets, services, consumables, etc. with bitcoins.
Like I said:
Quote
all other economic indicators I know of like bitcoinstore.com, Humble Bundle sales figures, Reddit Gold figures etc. suggest that Bitcoin simply isn't a currency.
There is no Bitcoin economy and there never has been, it's all lies and deception to justify higher prices in the minds of a few bubble driven speculators. ASICs aren't an economy. The only thing we have are Silk Road and Satoshi Dice.
I disagree. If you look at all the products and services you can buy with bitcoins, and compare it to what you could buy with all of the other currencies ever invented and used by mankind throughout history, the bitcoin economy is one of the most successful economies in history. You can buy food, clothing, gadgets, services, consumables, etc. with bitcoins.
ya man = consumable BATH SALTS maybe hand delivered by the feds!!!
>>OUCH!!!!
There is no Bitcoin economy and there never has been, it's all lies and deception to justify higher prices in the minds of a few bubble driven speculators. ASICs aren't an economy. The only thing we have are Silk Road and Satoshi Dice.
Aside from that, all other economic indicators I know of like bitcoinstore.com, Humble Bundle sales figures, Reddit Gold figures etc. suggest that Bitcoin simply isn't a currency. If anything besides a store of value, it's a USD proxy to buy certain goods.
I do think that Bitcoin can work simply as a store of value, but actual uses would be a boost, and I'd suggest to look for uses where Bitcoin has not only an advantage, but uses which without Bitcoin would be impossible.
Aside from that, all other economic indicators I know of like bitcoinstore.com, Humble Bundle sales figures, Reddit Gold figures etc. suggest that Bitcoin simply isn't a currency. If anything besides a store of value, it's a USD proxy to buy certain goods.
I do think that Bitcoin can work simply as a store of value, but actual uses would be a boost, and I'd suggest to look for uses where Bitcoin has not only an advantage, but uses which without Bitcoin would be impossible.
YOU ARE THE MAN!!!
we <3 >>
Blitz
Donator
Hero Member
SPREAD WORD BUD!!!!
>>>YOU ROCK!!!!!
Wait, is eMule a project that came from eDonkey?
ePills = MDMA = RAT POISON
more likely
There is no Bitcoin economy and there never has been, it's all lies and deception to justify higher prices in the minds of a few bubble driven speculators. ASICs aren't an economy. The only thing we have are Silk Road and Satoshi Dice.
I disagree. If you look at all the products and services you can buy with bitcoins, and compare it to what you could buy with all of the other currencies ever invented and used by mankind throughout history, the bitcoin economy is one of the most successful economies in history. You can buy food, clothing, gadgets, services, consumables, etc. with bitcoins.
Silk Road and now Atlantis. It made online purchases convenient, easy and safe even for ILLEGAL AND DANGEROUS products and services.
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