STOP SUPPORTING CRIMINALS AND SCAMMERS - page 2.

cjmoles

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Quote from: saturn643 on October 10, 2015, 07:39:50 PM

Quote from: yolalanda on October 10, 2015, 06:55:53 PM

And since no one stuffs cash into the intertubes, cash transactions, by their very nature, happen face-to-face. Establishing identity is not an issue.
Bitcoin? not so much.

Sure, the two people in the transaction will know who are in the transaction, but outsiders will not. Outsiders will not know who was in the transaction. While with Bitcoin, anyone can know everything about the transaction, and with some sleuthing, they can even figure out the identities of the owners of the addresses. For example, I can easily lookup an address and see every single transaction to and from it. I can know exactly when a transaction of a certain amount was sent and I can know what addresses were involved, and I may be able to link those transaction to identities. With cash, I cannot easily know when someone last exchanged some money for something else and I cannot easily know who they did it with, short of going to the person and asking them.

Quote from: cjmoles on October 10, 2015, 07:11:37 PM

When I hand over my fiat, it is far from secret because I am there with my firearm and will blast on the fool who tries to rob me. That's the difference, and that's why thieves like bitcoin....they can steal without the risk of repercussion or prosecution.

As I explained above, it is still secret. Of course, yes, you are right that that person will probably not rob you if they know you have a firearm and will probably shoot them if they do steal from you. However, a lot of fiat is also stolen through digital means, such as credit card fraud. That stuff is still pretty damn hard to trace, more so than bitcoin because those transactions are not public, and there is no identifier for where the money is going to.

Yes, one can see the transaction on the blockchain...but that's it! There's no way to enforce the exchange of the goods and there's no way to identify the parties involved. When one uses fiat, at least, two participants are witness as to the identities of the parties involved, but that's not the case with bitcoin in the majority of its transactions.

saturn643

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Quote from: yolalanda on October 10, 2015, 06:55:53 PM

And since no one stuffs cash into the intertubes, cash transactions, by their very nature, happen face-to-face. Establishing identity is not an issue.
Bitcoin? not so much.

Sure, the two people in the transaction will know who are in the transaction, but outsiders will not. Outsiders will not know who was in the transaction. While with Bitcoin, anyone can know everything about the transaction, and with some sleuthing, they can even figure out the identities of the owners of the addresses. For example, I can easily lookup an address and see every single transaction to and from it. I can know exactly when a transaction of a certain amount was sent and I can know what addresses were involved, and I may be able to link those transaction to identities. With cash, I cannot easily know when someone last exchanged some money for something else and I cannot easily know who they did it with, short of going to the person and asking them.

Quote from: cjmoles on October 10, 2015, 07:11:37 PM

When I hand over my fiat, it is far from secret because I am there with my firearm and will blast on the fool who tries to rob me. That's the difference, and that's why thieves like bitcoin....they can steal without the risk of repercussion or prosecution.

As I explained above, it is still secret. Of course, yes, you are right that that person will probably not rob you if they know you have a firearm and will probably shoot them if they do steal from you. However, a lot of fiat is also stolen through digital means, such as credit card fraud. That stuff is still pretty damn hard to trace, more so than bitcoin because those transactions are not public, and there is no identifier for where the money is going to.

cjmoles

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Quote from: saturn643 on October 10, 2015, 06:30:06 PM

Quote from: cjmoles on October 10, 2015, 06:14:20 PM

The impression is that bitcoin is used to engage in illegal, immoral, or otherwise "dark market activities." There is not much real world advantage to using bitcoin over fiat other than engaging in fast, secret, or otherwise "shady dealings." Governments could remedy the shady transactions by issuing their own cryptocurrency to allow for the exchange of digital goods and to allow for smart contract capabilities among the digitized public. And, I believe that will be the direction the technology will take.

fiat actually has quite the advantage over Bitcoin in fast, secret, and shady dealings. Once you hand over cash, the transaction is confirmed and done. No need to wait. Much much faster than waiting 10 minutes for a confirmation. It is quite secret to hand over cash. There is virtually no way to track cash transactions. Bitcoin, every single transaction is publicly available, and anyone can see that a transaction between two addresses occurred. With fiat, you would never know that any such transaction happened with cash.

When I hand over my fiat, it is far from secret because I am there with my firearm and will blast on the fool who tries to rob me. That's the difference, and that's why thieves like bitcoin....they can steal without the risk of repercussion or prosecution.

yolalanda

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Quote from: saturn643 on October 10, 2015, 06:30:06 PM

... Bitcoin, every single transaction is publicly available, and anyone can see that a transaction between two addresses occurred. ...

And, if any mischief's afoot, the addresses get nailed and go to JAIL!
Mixers, exchanges, BTC casinos, localbitcoin, etc., etc.? Shit ain't real, bro! Shit jus' drop 'fo mah bombass blockchain skillz!
And since no one stuffs cash into the intertubes, cash transactions, by their very nature, happen face-to-face. Establishing identity is not an issue.
Bitcoin? not so much.

saturn643

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Quote from: cjmoles on October 10, 2015, 06:14:20 PM

The impression is that bitcoin is used to engage in illegal, immoral, or otherwise "dark market activities." There is not much real world advantage to using bitcoin over fiat other than engaging in fast, secret, or otherwise "shady dealings." Governments could remedy the shady transactions by issuing their own cryptocurrency to allow for the exchange of digital goods and to allow for smart contract capabilities among the digitized public. And, I believe that will be the direction the technology will take.

fiat actually has quite the advantage over Bitcoin in fast, secret, and shady dealings. Once you hand over cash, the transaction is confirmed and done. No need to wait. Much much faster than waiting 10 minutes for a confirmation. It is quite secret to hand over cash. There is virtually no way to track cash transactions. Bitcoin, every single transaction is publicly available, and anyone can see that a transaction between two addresses occurred. With fiat, you would never know that any such transaction happened with cash.

cjmoles

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Quote from: saturn643 on October 10, 2015, 06:09:22 PM

Quote from: cjmoles on October 10, 2015, 06:04:52 PM

I agree with you on your point. However, I do believe that developers accounts which have shown themselves to be thieves should be vetted in some way. For example, accounts such as this https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-mercurial-mci-linking-crypto-currencies-1158117 which offer crowdfunds then run with a great deal of peoples money, should not be allowed to keep coming back to do it again. In fact, I can see somebody getting hurt really bad soon. What will that do for the movement?

How do you know that that person will run with the money? You don't know until it happens. There is risk in everything, some people are stupid enough to take the risk and invest in that, other people are not. There is also a thing called the trust system and scam accusations. Use those and get scammers marked with red trust so people don't buy into whatever they are doing.

All I'm saying is that once they do it once, they should be vetted out somehow. I mean, if we wanted to catch this guy and show him our baseball bat, where would we find him? Hiding behind a bitcointalk account of course!....That's their protection.

cjmoles

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Quote from: saturn643 on October 10, 2015, 05:56:14 PM

Quote from: cjmoles on October 10, 2015, 05:49:20 PM

True...True! However, when the majority of crypto-currency users are thieves, then what does one do with the bitcoin they are holding? Bitcoin is pretty much a thing of the past, and another government insured, re-centralized, state regulated digital currency needs to take its place if bitcoin cannot govern itself.

Are you sure about that, that a majority of cryptocurrency users are thieves? Where is your proof?

And how would a centralized currency be any better than fiat? Why would a government go with a their own crypto when they can just use current fiat paper money? With fiat, nothing is public, so the government can do whatever corrupt stuff that they do and embezzle money while with an actual cryptocurrency, they would need to clean their act up.

The impression is that bitcoin is used to engage in illegal, immoral, or otherwise "dark market activities." There is not much real world advantage to using bitcoin over fiat other than engaging in fast, secret, or otherwise "shady dealings." Governments could remedy the shady transactions by issuing their own cryptocurrency to allow for the exchange of digital goods and to allow for smart contract capabilities among the digitized public. And, I believe that will be the direction the technology will take.

TheGr33k

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Quote from: coldblooded on October 09, 2015, 02:24:27 PM

THIS FORUM SHOULD STOP ALLOWING CRIMINALS AND SCAMMERS TO USE THIS AS A WAY TO MAKE THEIR RIP OFF THEIVING CRIMINAL OPERATIONS APPEAR MORE LEGIT (example: Diggit.io uses this as the "support contact" for their site which is a criminal operation that steals your deposits and doesn't let you withdraw and contacting anyone on this worthless forum just leads to a bunch of nerds responding and no response from any actual support person who operates diggit).

Your site relies on bitcoin existing, if bitcoin didn't exist this site wouldn't exist.

By facilitating bitcoin criminals and bitcoin scammers and scam sites, you are shooting yourself in the foot because eventually, as more people find and use bitcoin, they will realize it's nothing but a medium for criminals and scam artists to rob people. So you are just accelerating the inevitable, the liquidation of bitcoin as a whole, and the end of this whole ridiculous crytpo fad.

And you are building animosity among the community of bitcoin users by facilitating and marking yourselves as criminals and scammers, thus destroying your own legitimacy.

Stupid any way you look at it.

You're looking at things all wrong and are pretending like there isn't scammers/criminals on every major forum involving transactions/services/exchanges. Bitcoin is not a "fad", and it is not strictly a medium for criminals. Most of the USD a few years back had cocaine residue on them, does that not make everyone who touches them "marked criminals"? It sounds like you had an unfortunate experience and that happens, but you need to formulate a claim and support it with evidence in the proper section.

saturn643

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Quote from: cjmoles on October 10, 2015, 06:04:52 PM

I agree with you on your point. However, I do believe that developers accounts which have shown themselves to be thieves should be vetted in some way. For example, accounts such as this https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-mercurial-mci-linking-crypto-currencies-1158117 which offer crowdfunds then run with a great deal of peoples money, should not be allowed to keep coming back to do it again. In fact, I can see somebody getting hurt really bad soon. What will that do for the movement?

How do you know that that person will run with the money? You don't know until it happens. There is risk in everything, some people are stupid enough to take the risk and invest in that, other people are not. There is also a thing called the trust system and scam accusations. Use those and get scammers marked with red trust so people don't buy into whatever they are doing.

cjmoles

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Quote from: Lethn on October 10, 2015, 01:21:24 PM

Nobody is ignoring it, in fact everybody here who has been here before you has been consistently warning about scammers and ponzi schemes since Bitcoin became more known and advertised to the public. No, people like you need to stop coming in here and trying to run the show, many people here are free market advocates regardless of political affiliation and care a great deal about freedom of speech and expression.

So in English that means regardless of your personal feelings on the matter no we shouldn't go around rabidly banning and stamping down on what people are posting up, we can't prevent stupid people from throwing their money away to begin with because they're stupid, they'll ignore any advice given, so for fucks sake like I've said to so many people before you keep your arrogant and protectionist attitude to yourself.

I agree with you on your point. However, I do believe that developers accounts which have shown themselves to be thieves should be vetted in some way. For example, accounts such as this https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-mercurial-mci-linking-crypto-currencies-1158117 which offer crowdfunds then run with a great deal of peoples money, should not be allowed to keep coming back to do it again. In fact, I can see somebody getting hurt really bad soon. What will that do for the movement?

bitbollo

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Nec Recisa Recedit

in italy you can gamble with money only in AAMS authorized sites.
Maybe you can't bet one day in btc, or a site if offer the possibilities to pay with fiat money will be considered outlaw, and everyone will accept a bet by their will make an irregular bet.
But actually there is no any law, people can bet but you can't never open a place to accept this bet.
The point of the topic is against criminals (like who sell stoled account) and scammer (like who tries every time to ask for a loan and go away, or post stupid cloud mining site/ponzi), maybe a more control by the user with experience can help newbies to avoid get scammed or robbed.

saturn643

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Quote from: cjmoles on October 10, 2015, 05:49:20 PM

True...True! However, when the majority of crypto-currency users are thieves, then what does one do with the bitcoin they are holding? Bitcoin is pretty much a thing of the past, and another government insured, re-centralized, state regulated digital currency needs to take its place if bitcoin cannot govern itself.

Are you sure about that, that a majority of cryptocurrency users are thieves? Where is your proof?

And how would a centralized currency be any better than fiat? Why would a government go with a their own crypto when they can just use current fiat paper money? With fiat, nothing is public, so the government can do whatever corrupt stuff that they do and embezzle money while with an actual cryptocurrency, they would need to clean their act up.

cjmoles

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Quote from: achow101 on October 10, 2015, 03:05:35 PM

Quote from: eneilwex on October 10, 2015, 02:50:27 PM

Since when did gambling become a criminal activity?

In certain countries (e.g. US) it is illegal to gamble online.

But that begs the question as to whose laws are we going to follow?

It IS NOT illegal to gamble online in the US; however, it IS illegal for banks to transact with known gambling sites in the US.

cjmoles

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Quote from: unholycactus on October 09, 2015, 05:08:54 PM

Bitcoin is meant to create economic freedom. If you aren't responsible enough to protect yourself from scams, you should avoid using it.
As for the label people give to Bitcoin users, it doesn't matter.

People also use cash or credit fraud to commit crimes.

True...True! However, when the majority of crypto-currency users are thieves, then what does one do with the bitcoin they are holding? Bitcoin is pretty much a thing of the past, and another government insured, re-centralized, state regulated digital currency needs to take its place if bitcoin cannot govern itself.

bitbollo

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yes remain in topic, for a specific problem open a topic, also is better for other user contribute to the cause.
In this topic a few person can have an interest in this situation... open a topic in scam accusation, is much better.

achow101

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Just writing some code

Quote from: tmfp on October 10, 2015, 05:13:54 PM

Quote from: achow101 on October 09, 2015, 09:29:48 PM

Those scammers are immediately tagged with -ve trust which becomes quite obvious and then their sites and the people themselves are no longer trusted

Nobody has bothered to do this with Diggit.io, the main reason for OP's wrath, which is showing all the signs of being abandoned by its admin (and suffering major withdrawal problems) Cryptofuture (quite apt name, seeing as he appears to have been thinking ahead) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=165520
and accomplice oldmate (another apt name for Diggit #1 Investor) https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/oldmate-401759
who apparently impressed one of our Hero members enough to inspire
"This person deserve my complete trust"
If you read the thread there's a few Heros who don't really look very heroic, in hindsight....
Funny world the gambling scene, lending in troll boxes; Satoshi would be proud.

Anyway, I have left negative for the two of them so far, only mine won't make much difference but should be done by DT member really.
If they have run off with the amounts talked about, they won't be selling the accounts or using them again but still, we got to show we care, don't we?

Guess I will open up a scam accusation if no one else does once I gather some data for it.

edit:
Here is the thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/diggitio-scam-accusation-1205470

It would be great if people could help get some info on these guys to include in the thread. Then have some people on DT to neg them.

tmfp

legendary

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"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."

tldr:
Op tries moneypot, discovers game is rigged after losing $25
OP not happy

Quote from: coldblooded on August 23, 2015, 08:46:00 PM

Unfortunately for MP and all of you, I have the skills, experience, and knowledge to take MP offline for good and hopefully, with any luck (haha get it), obtain their BTC private keys and rob them blind like they did to me.

OP tries Diggit.io, loses $12 when admin goes awol
OP not happy

Quote from: coldblooded on October 09, 2015, 01:56:25 PM

I WILL FIND THESE TWO ASSHOLES OLDMATE AND CRYTPOSCAMMER AND MURDER THEIR ENTIRE FAMILY IN FRONT OF THEM AND THEN TORTURE AND MURDER THEM TOO.

OP decides 2+2=5 and decides it's all BITCOINTALK'S FAULT

Quote from: coldblooded on October 09, 2015, 02:24:27 PM

contacting anyone on this worthless forum just leads to a bunch of nerds responding and no response from any actual support person who operates diggit......So you are just accelerating the inevitable, the liquidation of bitcoin as a whole, and the end of this whole ridiculous crytpo fad.

Quote from: coldblooded on October 09, 2015, 03:30:24 PM

Everyone should report Diggit to the US authorities.

Report bitcointalk too as they are complicit in this criminal operation.

Sympathy for your loss of ~$37, but isn't the reaction slightly ott?

Quote from: achow101 on October 09, 2015, 09:29:48 PM

Those scammers are immediately tagged with -ve trust which becomes quite obvious and then their sites and the people themselves are no longer trusted

Nobody has bothered to do this with Diggit.io, the main reason for OP's wrath, which is showing all the signs of being abandoned by its admin (and suffering major withdrawal problems) Cryptofuture (quite apt name, seeing as he appears to have been thinking ahead) https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/cryptofuture-165520
and accomplice oldmate (another apt name for Diggit #1 Investor) https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/oldmate-401759
who apparently impressed one of our Hero members enough to inspire
"This person deserve my complete trust"
If you read the thread there's a few Heros who don't really look very heroic, in hindsight....
Funny world the gambling scene, lending in troll boxes; Satoshi would be proud.

Anyway, I have left negative for the two of them so far, only mine won't make much difference but should be done by DT member really.
If they have run off with the amounts talked about, they won't be selling the accounts or using them again but still, we got to show we care, don't we?

bitbollo

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something can be illegal in your country and not in mine...
for example weed....
other thins can be tollerated in one's but illegal in another... for example the alcohol ...
I think that a "ponzi" section need to be stopped!
"investor-based games" has get a lot of big scam sites....

Vika NSFW

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