Topic: Suggestion: Raise merit requirements at the lower and highest ranks (@theymos) - page 3. (Read 1393 times)

I will concede that it could take longer for a newbie or a jr member to garner attention from other members in order to receive merit, but you should also consider some critical self-reflection, as well. 

Look at your post history.   You have a lot of one liners and participation in bounty threads, and this seems to be true of your post history both before and after the implementation of the merit system.  Quantity of one liner posts does not necessarily equal substantive contribution that motivates other members to want to send merit to you because they are inspired or humored by you in some kind of feeling way... They need to get merit sending inspiration from the content of your posts.

Anyhow, if you are currently having trouble getting 10 merits, and you cannot seem to figure out what you are doing wrong, then you are likely going to have even more difficulties learning how to reach the next couple of merit thresholds of 100 and 250 merits.  Of course, if there is some kind of luck that this merit system changes to make earning merits easier for you, then you may benefit from that in order to rank up, but I would not bank on that kind of change happening any time soon.

If signature is disabled or extremely limited (far less character or no background/image color allowed), surely only few people would complain this suggestion
But i agree the minimum merit for Hero/Legendary is a too high, considering not everyone can have popularity/attention/good reputation and not everyone give merits depending on writing/info quality, some even give merits to those they know well.

hahahahaha

I agree with a lot about what you said, Flying Hellfish... but you did seem to take this subject matter to almost the opposite extreme in order to make your point... .. ..

Certainly, rank is important in terms of the forum, incentivizing member contributions, and there are certain potential financial and status benefits with rank.  You know the expression, "rank has its privileges"?

But, yeah, the overall point that you are making and several other posters in this thread are questioning whether rules should be made around exceptional posters, such as nullius.  There is no problem to strive for greatness, but there is also variety in contributions, and some definitely worthy folks are going to get left behind through this new merit system without tweaking. 

Additionally, theymos's decision to start the initial merit distribution of all members with merits at the minimum merit level of their current rank will disparately impact members who had been nearly to rank up under the old system, but based on the new system are now faced with earning merits to catch up to where they would have been.

We cannot become oblivious to some of these disparate impacts and the variation of activities and contributions of members who are worthy to rank up but might get locked out of (or left behind from) ranking up because of these new merit terms. 

By the way, I have also witnessed some members who seem to engage in a kind of subconscious merit beginning earning a lot of merits, and many of those members are going to rank up much easier than some members who might be more worthy, but less capable (or willing) to engage in self-marketing.

Anyhow, I have also read quite a bit of merit posts suggestions in the recent months, and sure there is also a common constructive theme within suggestions that recognizes that this merit system is in its early days and could take a decent 6 to 12 months to verify how matters are playing out and perhaps an equal amount of time, if not longer to reasonably attempt to fix bugs (if there are possible fixes).

That's why this new system is so hype. You have to be a good writer or a very technical support person to get merit and advance.

That means a radical change where only the intelligent will reach legendary.

I totally agree, everyone including OP is following their own interests and not solving the forum's issues like spam, shit posting etc.

The majority of people here use this forum to gain knowledge about the crypto world and make money from either trading or mining or why not, both. Once you get to Full Member or Sr. Member status and you can use all the features of this forum like adding an avatar, linking the signature etc. you should be all set and you shouldn't care about gaining merit or activity anymore.

What everyone should be actively concerned with is helping the community with whatever they can. It's always nice to have someone to ask advice from so, why not help out others when you can? Sadly, I have seen a lot of shit posting rather than help...



Don't believe a word about it... Merit is hard to get if you're a person who doesn't have a lot of time to invests in creating posts. Even if you help out people (which is the purpose of a community) you won't necessarily get merits because usually people asking questions don't have merits to send or don't know how to use them.

OP may be a good poster with a loooot of free time on his hands but he is also a notorious merit "hunter".
If you do not hunt for merit you won't get it as easy as it is advertised by some people.



Yes, you are spot on! Keep in mind that this forum is also very popular between teenagers (and that's perfectly fine) since they have a lot of time on their hands and for some, no social life.

But the truth is people are focusing more on ranks rather than acquiring knowledge about the crypto world and then making money from it.
The sad truth is everyone is trying to rank up to join signature campaigns and make money from it...

Well then I will be sure to let my colleagues know they are working with a true Hero.  Wonder if I will get a parade?  It is kinda Heroic being able to log into here long enough to obtain the rank, just imagine the tales I can regal about the heroic deeds I've accomplished.  Surely I'll be lavished with gold and gems and admired by many!

I have a question to you: Do you know more people with approximate results as your own? (i mean newbies, not theymos or Lauda  )
If you don't know such people (only in that case), that only means that you are exception. In that case all your idea don't have any sense. Because your speach sounds like the speech of sportsmen who want people to do 200 kg chest press just because he can.


At first to do something we must know that amount of merit is not enough. Not just for one or two or three persons.
And why just 1500 for hero? I think 7000 for hero and 70 000 for legendary will be nice. In that case you will be really proud of your rank  

In fact, it's sounds like "I achieved so much, it's to easy for me. So change please it for all"

But i will agree with advanced number of merit for Jr.member and member

I will reply to you, and I've only included a partial quote, but there are references elsewhere.

You will have seen from many of my posts that I point out that there no benefit to me in being a Legendary rather than a Hero, but it seems the same is not true for you.

Of course I don't blame you for my computer problem, and I suspect that it needs a bit of dust removal. I mentioned it, because it was during a fast scroll to pass over your monologue that it failed, and it affected my mood.

I think your suggestion is rubbish because it fails to consider the motivation of posters at the various member levels. Obviously this is of no direct concern to me as a Hero, but it is important to me as a supporter of the restoration of the great forum that Bitcoin Talk was a few years ago,

I am a speed reader, and as such the first thing I do is to look at the picture of the post. If it appears to be overly verbose, and far too detailed for the introduction of a concept, then I skip over it, especially if the topic appears to be a variant of one that has appeared numerous times before.

My reference to your merit awards referred to the award for the OP in this thread, and the point that I made was that the awarder appeared to have the same posting style and verbosity as you, and the awarding of the point would appear to be counter-productive. I am sure others have looking into your merit history, and your admitted alts, so I assume there is nothing untoward there.

At the moment you appear to be the Sun God on this forum, but please remember that Huitzilopochtli required human sacrifice on a regular basis. Please encourage newer members and don't belittle them for their efforts to satisfy your own self-aggrandisement ( yes, I am English, so I use the correct spelling). If I misread your claim to the simplicity in acquiring merits, then I apologise, but it did come over as rather self-promoting.

I agree with the Jr. Member and Members rank requirements this will help to reduce this farmers in making account until Jr. Member rank just to join signature campaign, Im sure that our community will be full of this ranks after not getting merits because of their shitposting just to fill the requirements of signature campaign.

On the other side I strongly disagree with that hero-legend merit requirement though I know I cant make it anymore to get at least on hero rank (losing hope) because of merit is not that too easy to earn for us like you, but I think that is too much requirements for other that is near to this ranks.

If the purpose of this suggestion is to make an achievement to yourself maybe all of those hero-legendary member will decrease their rank to prove their selves, and i think many high rank members will cry for sure especially those high rank shitposters and farmers.

I was indeed disclaiming self-interest as I'm certain many seeing that I'm approaching 500 merit to rank up to Hero would accuse me of that. The second part of that was to point out you are rather an exceptional case and I don't think we need rank to tell us that.


That's a slightly odd way to look at it, but why not? If you've already done what is required to earn the badge then you deserve it even if you do choose to put your feet up on a tropical beach and sip cocktails from now on.


This is where our perspectives part. I don't see rank on a forum as anything to be proud about. What this is all about is shutting out the influx of spammers. Signatures were tied to rank a very long time ago and this is dealing with the consequence of that. The balance theymos has put in place looks to be effective in stopping shitposters gaining access to valuable signatures and not holding back anyone who is here to learn and participate. I don't feel that there would be any benefit to upping the requirements beyond giving you the challenge you yearn.

Your implication as to me was not entirely clear; I think you were disclaiming that your words were not self-serving as to yourself, and I don’t wish to cherry-pick a few parts of what you said to turn it backwards.  Nevertheless, for clarity:  I should like to emphasize that my suggestion in OP is strongly against my own interests.  Or at least, it is what most people would consider to be against my interests.

As of now, I could kick back, make one marginal post (barely above the moderators’ deletion threshold) every two weeks, and still be called a “Hero” starting on 12 March 2019.  Also, I am almost two-thirds of the way to Legendary, insofar as merit is concerned.  Yet I am advocating that I should be required to continue working hard here.

That said, I have sufficient pride that I don’t consider a greater challenge to be against my interests.  To the contrary:  As I said in OP, I want for earning Hero rank (and higher) to be something to be proud of.  That means it must be difficult to achieve.

Perspective check:  If the first person below Hero rank to ever reach the Hero rank merit threshold says that the threshold is too low, then I should hope that others would consider that opinion.

---

Nailed it.  Poh-tah-toh.

---

Thanks, hilarious.  But at the high end, as for what you say, my concern is twofold:

0. Changes will become more difficult to make.  For a hilarious analogy, consider the old Bitcoin blocksize.  Do you want to try to design a Segwit to softfork rank requirements between old and new merit thresholds?  Hahah.  Seriously, we already saw enough strife over the “grandfathering” of merits based on rank at the introduction of the merit system.

1. As I said, the difficulty of achieving higher rank should not only increase, but accelerate at the top levels.  Consider officer ranks in a military, or executive ranks in a corporation.  Most “users” will never reach the top ranks, or even remotely approach them.  If this forum is now on some level a meritocracy, then it would be sensible for middle ranks to have moderate requirements, and high ranks to have extreme requirements.

---

I should hope so!


I like what I’m hearing here.  For my part, I have taken to checking post histories before I award merit to those I’ve never seen before—especially those at the Newbie and Jr. ranks, and those in upper ranks who seem to have earned little or nothing above their “grandfathered” merit.  Not a few times, I have backed away from the merit button after a glance at post history revealed bounty posts or other spammish behaviour.  Also, I have recently developed a policy of never awarding more than +1 per post to a Newbie; since this is unfair, I have a very short list of posts to which I plan to return in a few months and add more merit, if I see evidence that the person still deserves it.

---

Length of a post is never a sole criterion of meritoriousness.  I once awarded +5 to a post which contained a single two-letter word “ok”, excluding quotations.  (In context, it was a meritorious action:  Contemptuous dismissal of whining by a merit abuser who got red-tagged.)

---

It is my fault that your computer is a piece of trash.  I apologize.


And that’s my fault, too.  It is not as if proper trimming of quotes were the responsibility of the person who is quoting another post.  I never gently explain quote-trimming to newbies, and certainly never flame non-newbies to a cinder for failure to trim quotes.

You’re right:  To avoid injuring you and your “wobbly” computer, or proximately causing hypothetical untrimmed quotes by others, I must desist from making long posts.

(By the way, didn’t you say that you were a speed-reader?)


How, exactly, would it be “good for self-aggrandizement” for me to place myself further away from Hero rank after I’ve already earned it, at least insofar as merit is concerned?  You seem to have not thought this through.


Try checking my merit summary before you say such things.  Yes, you will consider it “long arsed”; but you can’t properly blame me for that.  My very first merit on 2018-01-25 was awarded by a forum moderator; and that set the trend.  Most of my merit has come from those with sMerit to give.  Many “junior(ish) members” may like my posts; and merit awarded to me by “junior(ish) members” is all the more significant to me for how dear that sMerit is to them.  But by the numbers, they usually don’t have much sMerit.  Furthermore, I see no evidence that anybody has ever awarded me merit out of empathy—a concept I abhor.  I’d throw it in their faces!


Like you do?  Oh, right.  Check post history.

Stop preaching to others what you don’t practice—indeed, what they practice more than you do.  And if you care about the merit system’s integrity, by the way, I suggest that you drop the link currently in your signature and instead start red-tagging beggars.  Listing beggars on your website will have zero effect, other than making you feel better.  It does not help the forum.  The same applies as for ignore-listing.  Whereas I’ve hurt merit-beggars sufficiently that I’ve received a hate-PM advising me in “fuck you!” terms that I seriously hurt a wannabe spammer.  Check my trust summary page, which is also “long arsed” compared to yours.

---

Overall:  Jet Cash, I know that you’re upset over how close you were to the Legendary activity range when the merit system was introduced.  But that is no reason to both mischaracterize my posting and merit histories, and blame me for your “wobbly” computer being unable to handle texts longer than a Tweet.  If you dislike my suggestion for any reason other than that it would place you about 2300 merits away from Legendary rank, I suggest that you argue on its merits (so to speak) rather than posting pointless ad hominem drivel.  HTH.

---

Flying Hellfish is evidently sore because I calmly rejected his ridiculous high-handed preaching to me of sexual mores which I do not share.  Thus, the string of F-bombs and low-brow insults.  This is not an assumption; he underscored his point, “fucking blowy (from a real person”.

As for the advice to “smoke a dube”, no way!  Recreational psychotropic drug use is against my moral values.  I am strongly opposed to the use of marijuana, and very judgmental about it.

Slightly bitter!!😁

Relax dude! It was only suggestion, don't worry theymos is the only one who make a decision regarding that matter.

Potato.

I'm starting this in a bad mood, because a rapid scroll through the initial long arsed post killed my main computer. Windows had a wobbly, and I'm going to have to pick it to pieces to see what happened.
So my first comment is - for god's sake stop posting books to start a thread. It will probably be quoted in various posts during the thread, and make the whole thing unreadable.

I think the posted suggestion would be bad for the forum. It might be good for self- aggrandisement, but the merit system levels are sufficient to serve their intended purpose, and that is to remove most of the posts that sig spammers make in order to leech minimal income from the forum.

Nullius is fortunate in that he has a number of junior(ish) members who have the same posting skills and obviously have empathy for him, and who are able to award him merits. His initial post was awarded a merit by such a member, despite the fact that the proposition would be a serious disadvantage for him. Most of us don't have this dedicated following.

Isn't it time that we accepted that the merit system seems to be working at a basic level, and we got on with the business of discussing crypto-currencies in a rapidly changing world economy.

I have about 230 posts currently and let me tell you that achieving 10 merits by far the hardest thing to achieve with all the help in the mining forums I try and do, believe you me.
Like trying to get blood out of a stone.

But I agree on the top end of the rankings as there seems to be a psychological notion to give more merit to people on their rankings than their actual posts.
Not bitter in anyway as I approve of the system but just an observation that is very noticeable.

When I said this:


These are the words I was really looking for.

What the fuck is with these fucking people...  Dude its a fucking web forum.  The rank achieved here is nothing to be proud of...

Holy shit people get a fucking life that isn't tied to this fucking forum...  Go outside take a walk enjoy nature, get a fucking blowy (from a real person not some 15 yr old boy pretending to be a 19 yr old women on the webz), smoke a dube, have a glass of wine.

When you start saying things like"blah blah blah insult to the word hero" and "can you really call someone legendary".  Hey dude it's a forum, guess what those ranks actually mean, NOTHING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LOLOLOLOLOLOL

A persons trust, merit, and rank are completely inconsequential because interwebz and also have zero bearing on the content of their posts.

Just because you got the merits rapidly doesn't mean that we should declare the standard of average merits to +1 per day. If we had so many talented people around us then im sure that we would create a world full of Einstein.

Everyone's posting habit is different and everyones thinking capacity is different. Many times people want to express themselves but they fail due miscellaneous insufficiency in them. Have you considered that thought while reframing the merit system? The forum is full of multinational crowd and people are coming from the Non English background too. This takes them to the back foot and thus adds up even more challenges while getting the merits. Local boards merit is unaccounted and they are mostly seen as merit farming.

I completely disagree with your views on the merit system and would think about the whole system as common mans perspective.

You are talking like that everyone here is like you and it would be easy to earn merits in so called 32 days, 9 hours, 14 minutes, 51 seconds to go from zero to Hero.

There is no meaning to your theory and it is just coming out of thrilled journey of yours and nothing else.

Only the author of the merit system can make a decision if they increase or decrease the needed merit points before rank up. I think many users were disagree with that suggestion, since most of the participants of this site now are complaining regarding merit system.

However as of now complainant were already lessen maybe because they understand now the good intentions of this new rule. Therefore many bitcointalker are willing to improve and evolve their posts quality.

I think nullius have a a good intention why they can suggest it, but we need also to consider the other people. Almost more of the bitcointalker are not first language the English so we need to understand that it's hard for them to construct a concrete sentences.

Other than that let's also hear first the comments or opinion of many before deciding to change the rule. I hope I cannot offended the others.

nullius is always offering a good cause for every member like myself, If I become a Hero with 3000 merit there's a value in it not just the rank itself.

He/She is pushing everyone to achieve something that is extraordinarily exceptional I like this guy I like the idea even if it is unattainable to a few members it is still achievable to a selected member like nullius itself.

Even if the idea is sort of cynical there's no explainable evidence that nullius is getting something in return undoubtedly.

P.S if I myself get to that HERO/Legendary rank every morning I wake up there's something good that happen to my life in this community and everything is priceless.