A bailout should not cost us. If the foundation was to act in the interest of bitcoin, the core devs could develop an alternative client to fork the mtgox addresses and all the miners could decide if the bitcoins stuck there should be accessible. What happens if 51% agrees? That is in case the bitcoins are stuck and not stolen.
Also Mark should be cast into oblivion and never have access to the bitcoins again.
Topic: Support a Bailout for (MT)Gox.com - page 2. (Read 7885 times)
You are talking about MtGox needs to die, but what if tomorrow same situation happens to bitstamp? btc-e？
If bitstamp begins to fool their customers for months as gox did, then you would have plenty of time to withdraw your coins.
If you wouldn't, you shouldn't be rewarded. To reward moral hazard behavior is bad for bitcoin.
You are talking about MtGox needs to die, but what if tomorrow same situation happens to bitstamp? btc-e？
You guys don't have any bitcoins at exchange? You guys never trade online?
You guys don't have any bitcoins at exchange? You guys never trade online?
Bailouts, even in the form you're suggesting, are counter to what decentralized networks are all about.
Decentralized networks are superior because you don't have to bail out, or save any one entity.
Decentralized networks are superior because you don't have to bail out, or save any one entity.
And yet, and yet.....
Mark Kapeles of mtgox bailed out another exchange back in 2011, using 17,000 BTC of his own to make sure the customers of that exchange didn't lose money - and I'm sure they were glad.
Why did he do it? Because it's not in the long term interests of the community to allow large numbers of people to lose money. It wasn't then and it isn't now.
Decentralized networks don't mean "you don't have to bail out or save any one entity" - it just means that there is no govt to organize the bailout and the community does it instead.
Think very hard before you advocate the "selfish at all costs" model which is quite different from a decentralized model.
If these types of incidents start to happen very frequently, one of two things will happen a) bitcoin will die as people will shudder at a non-regulatory environment that practically says to crooks, come and steal there is no comeback and no compensation for the victims or b) regulation will happen because the victims become so numerous, they eventually make up the majority of the community.
I think a bailout is a good idea. Perhaps Mtgox can issue bailout bonds that we can buy for 1BTC each and which pay a % of the profits. That way he raises capital to pay the victims, they clean up mtgox - put in new management, and when it's running properly again, those of us who have participated in the bailout get a small return for our altruism.
customer ownership?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yyrvf/open_letter_to_mark_karpeles_voluntary/
Bailouts, even in the form you're suggesting, are counter to what decentralized networks are all about.
Decentralized networks are superior because you don't have to bail out, or save any one entity.
Decentralized networks are superior because you don't have to bail out, or save any one entity.
And yet, and yet.....
Mark Kapeles of mtgox bailed out another exchange back in 2011, using 17,000 BTC of his own to make sure the customers of that exchange didn't lose money - and I'm sure they were glad.
Why did he do it? Because it's not in the long term interests of the community to allow large numbers of people to lose money. It wasn't then and it isn't now.
Decentralized networks don't mean "you don't have to bail out or save any one entity" - it just means that there is no govt to organize the bailout and the community does it instead.
Think very hard before you advocate the "selfish at all costs" model which is quite different from a decentralized model.
If these types of incidents start to happen very frequently, one of two things will happen a) bitcoin will die as people will shudder at a non-regulatory environment that practically says to crooks, come and steal there is no comeback and no compensation for the victims or b) regulation will happen because the victims become so numerous, they eventually make up the majority of the community.
I think a bailout is a good idea. Perhaps Mtgox can issue bailout bonds that we can buy for 1BTC each and which pay a % of the profits. That way he raises capital to pay the victims, they clean up mtgox - put in new management, and when it's running properly again, those of us who have participated in the bailout get a small return for our altruism.
A bailout appears unlikely, although I really like your point about decentralized networks:
"Decentralized networks don't mean "you don't have to bail out or save any one entity" - it just means that there is no govt to organize the bailout and the community does it instead.
Think very hard before you advocate the "selfish at all costs" model which is quite different from a decentralized model."
Regarding those who want Gox to die: If it is resurrected in soe form, I'm pretty sure Karpeles will not come with the house. It would effectively be a brand name under different more competent management.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/roger-ver-gox-worst-run-business-in-the-history-of-the-world-486531
roger ver believes mtgox was insolvent for several years
roger ver believes mtgox was insolvent for several years
I don't believe all is lost and I believe the bad news is exaggerated. All of my IOUs are under MtGox management, so I am biased with optimism. I liked the comfort of my OTP and security. All in all, I have been with MtGox since January of 2013 and while I have bouts of regret, MtGox has been the foundation for exchanges. They took the initial risk and theretofore it had paid off. I future is uncertain but I still have high hopes for the return of MtGox and have faith in Mr. Karpeles to work out the problems whichever they may be. I speculated two months ago that the probability and lack of disclosure with current issues were due to US pressures that proved to be existent in all of 2013 for MtGox. I transferred most of my funds to MtGox through Dwolla before that branch of deposit was closed. I never had any account security problems and any support tickets I did put in were answered timely. I am apostile verified and have the requisite limits associated with my account. I don't have the sense of dread that most others are feeling despite much of my net worth being tied up there. My initial investments in bitcoin were meant to be long term and in support of BTC. I don't see lack of access to those funds as a roadblock to my longterm plans as I am not a daytrader. I will give the blind faith that Mr. Karpeles seems to be asking of in the meantime and feel it isn't misplaced. I see far more greed on the forums and an immediate debasement for the fellow forumer. Those of you looking for a get rich quick scheme should immediately withdrawal all your money from BTC because your intentions are all misplaced. I knew when I first bought my first BTC on this forum that it was a risk and as such still is. This is an unregulated industry and as such as some road bumps that go along with it. Many of you complain you aren't making 10% a day or get caught up in your own greed to try to plainly, covertly or otherwise manipulate others into your pocket. As I see it, you are the poison of this technology as you hope and wish others to lose money. Go Mr. Karpeles on your way, I'm sure your active on the forums and there's still a portion of us that believe in your good will and intentions. In the crash of April you were the only one with the confidence to say that every one would "Get what their looking for" and I believe you will still deliver in these times once again of darkness. It's hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes and when I place myself in Mr. Karpeles' its difficult to grasp the amount of stress and ill will that has been conveyed over the past year. Best wishes to all and have some faith in people as I will as I ride this ship all the way to the bottom. I will be the first to eat my words, and my investment, if it goes to the worse but as for now I consider this business as usual.
I'd still like to see the magic the gathering exchange come back...
It seems a bailout will happen anyway. And probably the big players/investors once they see this initiative will be motivated to get behind this also.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/open-letter-to-mark-karpeles-voluntary-reorganization-is-the-best-option-for-us-488483
And probably a public run exchange like the one Gox will be transformed into, will inspire much more trust than any other exchange. So it will gather the most users.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/open-letter-to-mark-karpeles-voluntary-reorganization-is-the-best-option-for-us-488483
And probably a public run exchange like the one Gox will be transformed into, will inspire much more trust than any other exchange. So it will gather the most users.
To the OP, I think you may be confusing Mt. GOXXX with Silk Road, because clearly you're fuckin' high.
Personaly, I don't even see a takeover/buyout to be a viable option.
What do you get for your money? A client base that hates your guts basicaly. Most of them will pull out ASAP.
Sure they may sell off some of their assets. The value of their software is highly questionable... And the name is just synoymous with incompetence.
What do you get for your money? A client base that hates your guts basicaly. Most of them will pull out ASAP.
Sure they may sell off some of their assets. The value of their software is highly questionable... And the name is just synoymous with incompetence.
I think Karpeles is getting the hate.
I don't think many would swap that hate onto a new owner - they'd be so relieved!
No, I would not put the hate onto the new owner. But I would hold him liable for the outstanding debt.
If he just bought my account and would not be liable for my losses, why should I use his service? That mail would be forwarded to my spam folder.
And at this point I ask myself: Who in their right mind would invest $300 million in Mt.Gox? The biggest investment in Bitcoin history goes to the most poorly implemented/managed exchange service? And I'm saying that to be nice.
Ohhhhh, they will not have all that money right away? I might get my money/Bitcoins back if I stick with them for the next few years? Weeeeeeeee, I'm so excited and relieved...
This whole "to big to fail" nonsense makes me sick. Saving MtGox is like putting a band aid on an infected limb. If we don't cut it off, the infection will spread and then Bitcoin WILL die.
It's been pointed out in the leaked document that not saving Mt.Gox will set us back by 5-10 years. Let me put this in perspective:
5 years ago : the genesis block
10 years ago : Satoshi is fooling around with his first "Hello World!" SHA256 program...
Personaly, I don't even see a takeover/buyout to be a viable option.
What do you get for your money? A client base that hates your guts basicaly. Most of them will pull out ASAP.
Sure they may sell off some of their assets. The value of their software is highly questionable... And the name is just synoymous with incompetence.
What do you get for your money? A client base that hates your guts basicaly. Most of them will pull out ASAP.
Sure they may sell off some of their assets. The value of their software is highly questionable... And the name is just synoymous with incompetence.
I think Karpeles is getting the hate.
I don't think many would swap that hate onto a new owner - they'd be so relieved!
Personaly, I don't even see a takeover/buyout to be a viable option.
What do you get for your money? A client base that hates your guts basicaly. Most of them will pull out ASAP.
Sure they may sell off some of their assets. The value of their software is highly questionable... And the name is just synoymous with incompetence.
What do you get for your money? A client base that hates your guts basicaly. Most of them will pull out ASAP.
Sure they may sell off some of their assets. The value of their software is highly questionable... And the name is just synoymous with incompetence.
Ya, like the 2008 bailouts (robbery)...
Let the free market decide... clearing out the deadwood. The ecosystem is far better without Gox.
Let the free market decide... clearing out the deadwood. The ecosystem is far better without Gox.
I think the OP is just having a bit of fun with us. No one in their right mind would ever bail out a bitcoin exchange. No one.
regulate the exchanges, not the coin.
If you want to run an exchange you need conform to a financial licence. If your country doesn't have this requirement and you run an exchange, hopefully due to the mt gox incident people won't use your exchange. Instead they will flock to regulated exchanges. So hopefully people only use "certified"/regulated exchanges and exchanges advertise this fact. Thus you can trust them somewhat.
It kinds subverts the anonymous nature of btc, but you can tumble your coins once they leave the exchange anyway. So at least you have some protection from dodgy people on the exchange. As they can come after the offender as they know who he is (so long as ID documents are not good fakes).
So you prove who you are to the exchange, but once it leaves the exchange.. you get your anonymity back.
If you want to run an exchange you need conform to a financial licence. If your country doesn't have this requirement and you run an exchange, hopefully due to the mt gox incident people won't use your exchange. Instead they will flock to regulated exchanges. So hopefully people only use "certified"/regulated exchanges and exchanges advertise this fact. Thus you can trust them somewhat.
It kinds subverts the anonymous nature of btc, but you can tumble your coins once they leave the exchange anyway. So at least you have some protection from dodgy people on the exchange. As they can come after the offender as they know who he is (so long as ID documents are not good fakes).
So you prove who you are to the exchange, but once it leaves the exchange.. you get your anonymity back.
That is about the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. Why bail out Mark when Mark may well be the thief?
It would make more sense to set up a reward fund -- to be given to whomever, anonymously or otherwise, provides information that leads to an arrest in the case. That might be FAR more productive. It might get large enough to override someone's fears about having signed a non-disclosure agreement....
It would make more sense to set up a reward fund -- to be given to whomever, anonymously or otherwise, provides information that leads to an arrest in the case. That might be FAR more productive. It might get large enough to override someone's fears about having signed a non-disclosure agreement....
TAKEOVER or buyout is something completely different than BAILOUT.
Bailout's not gonna happen, but takeover is very much possible.
That is about the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. Why bail out Mark when Mark may well be the thief?
It would make more sense to set up a reward fund -- to be given to whomever, anonymously or otherwise, provides information that leads to an arrest in the case. That might be FAR more productive. It might get large enough to override someone's fears about having signed a non-disclosure agreement....
It would make more sense to set up a reward fund -- to be given to whomever, anonymously or otherwise, provides information that leads to an arrest in the case. That might be FAR more productive. It might get large enough to override someone's fears about having signed a non-disclosure agreement....
How much are you donating to this bailout?
All the bitcoin and fiat you had at mtgox? Sounds like a Cyprus bail-in!
All the bitcoin and fiat you had at mtgox? Sounds like a Cyprus bail-in!
What do you say, we show some support for a Bailout in the case of MTGox?
I think it will be the best thing for Bitcoin as we are in the transition stage from "innovative tech" to "regulated and trusted main stream innovative tech"...
In order to make this transition we need support from the community and the world.
Of course, on top of that... people (like me) who have funds @ MTGox would like to get access to those funds asap.
Let's get this thread a lot of positive support for a bailout for MTGox!
It is not the time to be cynical. It is not the time to say "told you". This is the time to help.
What do you say? help and show support for the Bitcoin ecosystem, Bitcoin holders and traders who spent money, time and effort supporting this business and also the public image? Everyone who traded on MTGox probably talked about Bitcoin a lot with friends, family and others helping the ecosystem and we are talking about A LOT OF PEOPLE.
If this works out, then the Bitcoin community will be stronger than ever and also, don't worry about the bail-outer/s, they will get their Bitcoin value increased, self recognition for knowing they did the right thing and also, a lot of commissions and future funds.
So please, for all the right reasons, show support for a bailout in this case!
I think this is a true test for Bitcoin and the community.
I think it will be the best thing for Bitcoin as we are in the transition stage from "innovative tech" to "regulated and trusted main stream innovative tech"...
In order to make this transition we need support from the community and the world.
Of course, on top of that... people (like me) who have funds @ MTGox would like to get access to those funds asap.
Let's get this thread a lot of positive support for a bailout for MTGox!
It is not the time to be cynical. It is not the time to say "told you". This is the time to help.
What do you say? help and show support for the Bitcoin ecosystem, Bitcoin holders and traders who spent money, time and effort supporting this business and also the public image? Everyone who traded on MTGox probably talked about Bitcoin a lot with friends, family and others helping the ecosystem and we are talking about A LOT OF PEOPLE.
If this works out, then the Bitcoin community will be stronger than ever and also, don't worry about the bail-outer/s, they will get their Bitcoin value increased, self recognition for knowing they did the right thing and also, a lot of commissions and future funds.
So please, for all the right reasons, show support for a bailout in this case!
I think this is a true test for Bitcoin and the community.
I will never support a bailout for mtgox, they have done enough damage.
They need to get out of the bitcoin community once and for all!
They need to get out of the bitcoin community once and for all!
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