Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1165.

FUKT

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Quote from: Phoenix1969 on November 01, 2013, 10:26:39 PM

Quote from: stripykitteh on November 01, 2013, 10:22:33 PM

Quote from: Phoenix1969 on November 01, 2013, 10:12:02 PM

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, plus shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You KNC

Are you also selling your BTC for fiat? If not, to get a completely honest answer you should be doing your calcs in what you would have paid in BTC when you ordered. BTC has appreciated significantly against the USD since you would have ordered.

I paid in Fiat, so that's as "honest" as it gets...
I even used the xbt price, when I can still sell @ Gox!
So, stick that in your pipe, and smoke it! Grin

I actually plan on holding my BTC for $2,000.00/btc hehe
But yeah... I see what you're gettin' at...

Just another parasite in it for the profit.

uininPeter

full member

Activity: 141

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Quote from: Phoenix1969 on November 01, 2013, 10:56:40 PM

Do you think people who bought BFL products are turning their machines off?

No. With increased difficulty, when BFL products are not profitable anymore, these still can be used as room heaters for those who need it

Phoenix1969

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Quote from: waterboi92 on November 02, 2013, 02:46:07 AM

Quote from: Phoenix1969 on November 01, 2013, 11:41:49 AM

Quote from: shmadz on November 01, 2013, 08:14:19 AM

Quote from: waterboi92 on November 01, 2013, 07:27:29 AM

any jupiter owners running .98 notice that the hashrate is highest when you do a poweroff cycle and reboot, it will hit 565-575gh/s at the pool and then after running for a while the pool listed hash rate will get progressively lower, i dip at 490gh/s

any idea why this is?

This is exactly what happens to mine, maybe even lower, 470, 460... no idea why Huh

did you ever try 70-75C? after enablecores, on 0.98?

24 hours later.. my 3 sats are 850 at the pool on 12 hour average!
that's 283 each, which is exactly what they show on cgminer!

what are your temp readings? how are your fans/case set up? im thinking of following you, doing enable core, and rebooting and then putting case on upside down to raise the temps a bit and see if i still get a down slide in hashes over time with higher temps.

at the moment, all 6 boards(3 sats) are between 69-73C, no case fans whatsoever, heatsink fans only. cases off, stacked, with cardboard partially blocking the fans airflow into the heatsink, like this...

All running 0.98 with enablecores over top
this is for night-time basically, because it gets downright chilly in here.
During the day, I can remove the cardboard, and they stay around 70
Ive tried several times to leave them off... but if they drop below those
temps by more than about 5 degrees, I see a drop in my rates, and can
see one one miner loose about 6 cores, and another loose two...
then they take forever to come back, like 6-8 hours!
I have one miner that is super-rock solid, one a tad finicky,
and one super-sensitive finicky, don't breathe near me kind
Also, It may just be my imagination, but they seem to work better
while its raining outside(high humidity)

edgar

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Activity: 1848

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Quote from: JoelKatz on November 02, 2013, 01:54:49 AM

Quote from: dwdoc on November 02, 2013, 12:12:13 AM

Exactly correct. Also that "network protection" statement was made on 7/18/13 (6 weeks after they started taking orders) so all the people with units in hand knew nothing about that.

No, that's not how it works. The network protection statement affected everyone's assessment of the value of their pre-orders and other people's pre-orders and it affected people's decision to buy them, sell them, request refunds, and so on. There may be people who have units in their hands today who made the decision to buy other people's pre-orders because of the network protection statement. Once you do something that change something's value, other people act based on that.

Everyone with a miner in hand made decisions knowing of the existence of that statement.

(This is a general principle. In this specific case, the network protection statement was weak and basically meaningless. I'm just pointing out that the timing argument is bogus.)

+Yea!

Also, My HR lowers at night, when the chips are around 10C cooler.

waterboi92

member

Activity: 82

Merit: 10

Quote from: Phoenix1969 on November 01, 2013, 11:41:49 AM

Quote from: shmadz on November 01, 2013, 08:14:19 AM

Quote from: waterboi92 on November 01, 2013, 07:27:29 AM

any jupiter owners running .98 notice that the hashrate is highest when you do a poweroff cycle and reboot, it will hit 565-575gh/s at the pool and then after running for a while the pool listed hash rate will get progressively lower, i dip at 490gh/s

any idea why this is?

This is exactly what happens to mine, maybe even lower, 470, 460... no idea why Huh

did you ever try 70-75C? after enablecores, on 0.98?

24 hours later.. my 3 sats are 850 at the pool on 12 hour average!
that's 283 each, which is exactly what they show on cgminer!

what are your temp readings? how are your fans/case set up? im thinking of following you, doing enable core, and rebooting and then putting case on upside down to raise the temps a bit and see if i still get a down slide in hashes over time with higher temps.

arousedrhino

sr. member

Activity: 347

Merit: 250

Quote from: rampalija on November 02, 2013, 01:43:25 AM

Quote from: AussieHash on November 02, 2013, 01:31:25 AM

Quote from: arousedrhino on November 02, 2013, 12:43:15 AM

Now tell me how to purchase 8K in BTC with a credit card? Any idea's?

Buying a miner with a credit card is a lot easier and more fun than just buying BTC. You might not make as much money as if you just bought BTC but who cares its an easy fun way to get BTC and support the network.

Actually it is not difficult at all, despite the recent internal WU presentation in reddit

https://localbitcoins.com/buy-bitcoins-online/western-union/

You can buy $5000/day using money in minutes with your credit card

support the network?!?! HAh thetre is no supporting there is only stealing a peace of pie of other ppl who mine BTC.

Thats the point, to distribute the networks as much as possible therefore you get a smaller share. Are you serious or just trolling? Can't tell.

rampalija

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: JoelKatz on November 02, 2013, 01:54:49 AM

Quote from: dwdoc on November 02, 2013, 12:12:13 AM

Exactly correct. Also that "network protection" statement was made on 7/18/13 (6 weeks after they started taking orders) so all the people with units in hand knew nothing about that.

No, that's not how it works. The network protection statement affected everyone's assessment of the value of their pre-orders and other people's pre-orders and it affected people's decision to buy them, sell them, request refunds, and so on. There may be people who have units in their hands today who made the decision to buy other people's pre-orders because of the network protection statement. Once you do something that change something's value, other people act based on that.

Everyone with a miner in hand made decisions knowing of the existence of that statement.

(This is a general principle. In this specific case, the network protection statement was weak and basically meaningless. I'm just pointing out that the timing argument is bogus.)

nice explanation!

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: dwdoc on November 02, 2013, 12:12:13 AM

Exactly correct. Also that "network protection" statement was made on 7/18/13 (6 weeks after they started taking orders) so all the people with units in hand knew nothing about that.

No, that's not how it works. The network protection statement affected everyone's assessment of the value of their pre-orders and other people's pre-orders and it affected people's decision to buy them, sell them, request refunds, and so on. There may be people who have units in their hands today who made the decision to buy other people's pre-orders because of the network protection statement. Once you do something that change something's value, other people act based on that.

Everyone with a miner in hand made decisions knowing of the existence of that statement.

(This is a general principle. In this specific case, the network protection statement was weak and basically meaningless. I'm just pointing out that the timing argument is bogus.)

rampalija

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: AussieHash on November 02, 2013, 01:31:25 AM

Quote from: arousedrhino on November 02, 2013, 12:43:15 AM

Now tell me how to purchase 8K in BTC with a credit card? Any idea's?

Buying a miner with a credit card is a lot easier and more fun than just buying BTC. You might not make as much money as if you just bought BTC but who cares its an easy fun way to get BTC and support the network.

Actually it is not difficult at all, despite the recent internal WU presentation in reddit

https://localbitcoins.com/buy-bitcoins-online/western-union/

You can buy $5000/day using money in minutes with your credit card

support the network?!?! HAh thetre is no supporting there is only stealing a peace of pie of other ppl who mine BTC.

AussieHash

hero member

Activity: 692

Merit: 500

Quote from: arousedrhino on November 02, 2013, 12:43:15 AM

Now tell me how to purchase 8K in BTC with a credit card? Any idea's?

Buying a miner with a credit card is a lot easier and more fun than just buying BTC. You might not make as much money as if you just bought BTC but who cares its an easy fun way to get BTC and support the network.

Actually it is not difficult at all, despite the recent internal WU presentation in reddit

https://localbitcoins.com/buy-bitcoins-online/western-union/

You can buy $5000/day using money in minutes with your credit card

arousedrhino

sr. member

Activity: 347

Merit: 250

Quote from: Syke on November 01, 2013, 10:41:19 PM

Quote from: Phoenix1969 on November 01, 2013, 10:12:02 PM

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns+shipping) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, including shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You KNC

Now calculate how much fiat/BTC you would have if you would have simply purchased bitcoins directly instead of pre-ordering a miner that creates bitcoins very slowly.

Now tell me how to purchase 8K in BTC with a credit card? Any idea's?

Buying a miner with a credit card is a lot easier and more fun than just buying BTC. You might not make as much money as if you just bought BTC but who cares its an easy fun way to get BTC and support the network.

dwdoc

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

- - -Caveat Aleo- - -

Quote from: stripykitteh on November 01, 2013, 09:18:01 PM

Quote from: hendo on November 01, 2013, 08:30:03 PM

Quote from: dwdoc on November 01, 2013, 07:42:57 PM

Quote from: Xialla on November 01, 2013, 07:34:02 PM

responsibility of KNC was in taking unlimited amount from orders.

only limited amount of boxes during preorder is the way, how deliver positive ROI to investors.

When I purchased from them I don't remember them saying they were going to limit their sales to protect my ROI. What other company is doing that?

I don't want to join in this argument but to be honest, they kind of did... Wink

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

Quote

"We are also aware that we need our customers to have a return on their devices in order to purchase form us again. With the scale of the supply chains, agreements and factories we have access to, we need to be cautious we don’t ship too many devices and therefore reduce the return to our customers."

But then they put this caveat in at the end:

Quote

We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network.

Seeing as "large" is a relative term, it means whatever KnC want it to mean; therefore the whole statement is meaningless. Releasing more devices might protect their customers total share of the network, but individual customers don't care about that of course, they only care about their own personal share of the network. Individual KnC customers are competing for a share of the network with other KnC customers as much as they are with miners using devices from other manufacturers.

The whole statement is spin designed to make them look like nice guys while they go ahead and maximize their profit, which is what you should expect them to do anyway.

Exactly correct. Also that "network protection" statement was made on 7/18/13 (6 weeks after they started taking orders) so all the people with units in hand knew nothing about that.

Phoenix1969

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Activity: 938

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LIR DEV

Quote from: Syke on November 01, 2013, 10:41:19 PM

Quote from: Phoenix1969 on November 01, 2013, 10:12:02 PM

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns+shipping) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, including shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You KNC

Now calculate how much fiat/BTC you would have if you would have simply purchased bitcoins directly instead of pre-ordering a miner that creates bitcoins very slowly.

That's not mining, that's called speculation investing.
although its similar in nature, because your gold is only worth what people will pay fir it...yeah..
Sure, BTC could have easily been ten bucks...
But facts are facts, and hindsight won't get you anywhere.
Do you think people who bought BFL products are turning their machines off?
Why?
BTC speculation, sure.
okay, now the question becomes .... btc generated * price sold for.. so I can see your point... this is a viscous circle...hehe

I guess my point is nobody's likely to loose out on their KNC investment.

stripykitteh

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Quote from: DPoS on November 01, 2013, 10:40:40 PM

Quote from: stripykitteh on November 01, 2013, 10:22:33 PM

Are you also selling your BTC for fiat? If not, to get a completely honest answer you should be doing your calcs in what you would have paid in BTC when you ordered. BTC has appreciated significantly against the USD since you would have ordered.

this dogma will never die here.. I guess it is a clash of old btc-in-hand miners vs the new credit-in-hand miners

the new credit-in-hand miners take your equation and find out they would have paid 0btc for miners since they wouldn't get a miner if they had to try to buy btc on credit first.. would be a total waste of fees if possible, so they just keep the equation in $$$ and factor in the increase of btc value as part of their investment.

I'll say it again.. for a lot of the new miners, there is no 'if you bought it with btc' or 'if you just bought btc'

are all the old miners myopic?? staring at hashings screens for 2-3 years probably does that

So if the credit-in-hand view is correct, does that mean if you invest in mining hardware and the btc:usd exchange rate falls, should you blame it on the hardware as well? I see the btc-in-hand approach as having value because it reveals to you exactly where you made your profit (or loss). Certainly once you own some bitcoins you should be doing all subsequent calculations in bitcoin, to work out whether new hardware purchases are worth it or not.

DPoS

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Activity: 462

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Quote from: Syke on November 01, 2013, 10:41:19 PM

Now calculate how much fiat/BTC you would have if you would have simply purchased bitcoins directly instead of pre-ordering a miner that creates bitcoins very slowly.

lulz

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3461495

11

newbie

Activity: 17

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Once again, I do not hold any grudge against KNC but if they want to stay in the business of mining (repetitive sales) they'd better not insult my intelligence and move forward by stating the total GH/s they sold so far. If not, as a reasonable individual, I will not buy from them again and invest directly in BTC. At least I know my risk there....

Syke

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Quote from: Phoenix1969 on November 01, 2013, 10:12:02 PM

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns+shipping) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, including shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You KNC

Now calculate how much fiat/BTC you would have if you would have simply purchased bitcoins directly instead of pre-ordering a miner that creates bitcoins very slowly.

DPoS

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: stripykitteh on November 01, 2013, 10:22:33 PM

Are you also selling your BTC for fiat? If not, to get a completely honest answer you should be doing your calcs in what you would have paid in BTC when you ordered. BTC has appreciated significantly against the USD since you would have ordered.

this dogma will never die here.. I guess it is a clash of old btc-in-hand miners vs the new credit-in-hand miners

the new credit-in-hand miners take your equation and find out they would have paid 0btc for miners since they wouldn't get a miner if they had to try to buy btc on credit first.. would be a total waste of fees if possible, so they just keep the equation in $$$ and factor in the increase of btc value as part of their investment.

I'll say it again.. for a lot of the new miners, there is no 'if you bought it with btc' or 'if you just bought btc'

are all the old miners myopic?? staring at hashings screens for 2-3 years probably does that

Phoenix1969

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Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

LIR DEV

Quote from: stripykitteh on November 01, 2013, 10:22:33 PM

Quote from: Phoenix1969 on November 01, 2013, 10:12:02 PM

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, plus shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You KNC

Are you also selling your BTC for fiat? If not, to get a completely honest answer you should be doing your calcs in what you would have paid in BTC when you ordered. BTC has appreciated significantly against the USD since you would have ordered.

I paid in Fiat, so that's as "honest" as it gets...
I even used the xbt price, when I can still sell @ Gox!
So, stick that in your pipe, and smoke it! Grin

I actually plan on holding my BTC for $2,000.00/btc hehe
But yeah... I see what you're gettin' at...

stripykitteh

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CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

Quote from: Phoenix1969 on November 01, 2013, 10:12:02 PM

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, plus shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You KNC

Are you also selling your BTC for fiat? If not, to get a completely honest answer you should be doing your calcs in what you would have paid in BTC when you ordered. BTC has appreciated significantly against the USD since you would have ordered.

Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1165. (Read 3049528 times)