Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1382.

DPoS

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: FractionalReserve on October 11, 2013, 03:20:40 PM

If you have 4 VRM boards DO UPPGRADE TO 0.95 !!!

one of my miners has 3 boards with 4VRMs and 1 board with 8 VRMs

I guess I should just roll the dice that it will be happy or would this make that 8 VRM board act odd? Did anyone with jupiters with 8 VRM boards upgrade yet?

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: The Avenger on October 11, 2013, 03:22:38 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on October 11, 2013, 03:16:40 PM

Quote from: The Avenger on October 11, 2013, 03:04:25 PM

Quote from: timmmers on October 11, 2013, 02:49:24 PM

We all bought an unrefined product did we? Odd, I didn't see those words or anything like that when I paid for mine.
Not in any of the back patting videos or interviews either.

We bought a miner that we were told confidently would have margins upon margins capable of 400Gh and even today no-one has said that this (and the oct 15th date) has changed. Except of course to up it to 550 on the site and most promos ...which currently is false advertising ..as the past 20 pages here bear witness to.

As for all this shite about power consumption...right now is that a big priority to get down? I'd rather have a hashing rig while it's making enough BTC to make a few quid power bill extra irrelevent..later on the power consumption will matter more but not initially compared to a working rig. As long as the PSU handles it, we can wait for a firmware fix to get it down. Hashing reliably without smoke is the priority for users.

The sarcastic tone of Oramas post amazed me, people using fans to reduce temps ..planking? It worked. How bizarre is that? More to the fucking point no-one was talking from KNC end despite much asking...so what else were people to do? "We have a specialist flying in and we'll get back to you as soon as we know something." < see, took me 3 seconds to type that, and even some poor sweaty overworked KnC human could manage that surely?

The way to deal with trainwrecks like this isn't arrogance, sarcasm and silence ..it's communication and apologies and in many cases here where buyers have been so badly let down with multi hosted jupiters...fair compensation.

I wont deal with KnC again, nothing to do with the rigs, it's the denial and head in the sand stuff I can't be living with.

+100000
Totally.

Timmers you are being sensitive. Avenger I'm starting to believe you are a troll. Of course it's unrefined as you well knew. You knew perfectly well they were delivering a product to be placed in your hands in an expedited fashion upon receiving the chips. As such margin upon margins were in place to ensure no post chip receipt refinement was required prior to you being able to hash. Obviously this would mean improvements would then succeed the initiation of delivery, and will continue to do so. There is yet more to come. This is not a first for just Bitcoin mining, this is pretty much a first for the entire IC industry. It's insane. To get this, this right, first time, on 28nm tech is unheard of. Those involved; fab, suppliers, backend, etc. think this is remarkable, and it is.

I ask direct question and you avoid them. It's you're favourite thing to do.

We are talking about shitty communication, lack of updates. Your "sarkiness" and trying to tell a bunch of smart people a PSU is the problem.

And you go rattling on about how remarkable production is. Your answers are stupid and avoid anything pertinent.

Seeya, I answered all your questions politely yesterday despite your name calling, and abuse. You're a blatant troll now, you twist absolutely everything negatively. Yes the PSU is a problem, are you saying you are smarter than these guys and the guy that designed the VRM itself, and has just confirmed the HX850 surges upon reset after triggering it's safety?

Sure there can be a further fix, but that PSU does something other PSUs do not do upon restart after having to remove the ATX coard to reset. Fact, and now a proven one, by GE themselves.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1080

Gerald Davis

Quote from: r3animation on October 11, 2013, 03:22:48 PM

Would you pull out a ram stick or graphics card while you're computer was still on?

Yes. Even a CPU. In a hotswap capable high availability server

I think he was more asking is the PSU ok. The fact that someone wanted to energize a power supply and THEN connect wires well I mean that is just asinine. Some people should just buy Apple products and treat them like magical toasters. Plug it in, use it, throw it away.

Phoenix1969

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

LIR DEV

Quote from: r3animation on October 11, 2013, 03:21:06 PM

Quote from: Phoenix1969 on October 11, 2013, 03:19:20 PM

Quote from: Vega on October 11, 2013, 03:16:03 PM

I'm running 0.93. Just tried to upgrade to 0.95, and it seems to work, but after restart the web interface still says that the current firmware revision is 0.93. I tried to upgrade (downgrade) to other versions but it's the same.

It is possible that the upgrade was successful and the web interface displays the wrong version number? Is there a way to check firmware version through ssh?

at least you can access the miner page/tab....I cant... i get "ERROR 500 Internal server error"

When I added my backup pools in CGMiner itself, I broke the web interface. I'm assuming that's the common cause for most people.

hmm, i have to physically start cgminer thru ssl because the workername was input incorrectly from the factory, which may be the cause then?... it's catch22, because i cant change it on the gui...lol

Paladin69

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

Quote from: r3animation on October 11, 2013, 03:22:48 PM

Quote from: Paladin69 on October 11, 2013, 03:21:00 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on October 11, 2013, 03:20:05 PM

Quote from: rrrix on October 11, 2013, 02:57:06 PM

My Jupiter is scheduled for delivery today. Of course I bought a Corsair HX850 - is there any *safe* way to use it, or should I not even plug the thing in?

What if I power on the HX850 and plug in the PCI-E connectors one at a time?

NO! Never plug one at a time whilst on. and please step away from that PSU if you are even contemplating that!!

So even with the much better FW .95 you still wouldn't chance it? How about the 1250 series?

Would you pull out a ram stick or graphics card while you're computer was still on?

I meant using a common PSU like the HX850 in general. I'm not refering to whatever the hell people are talking about with connecting one pci-e at a time.

Excluding this PSU sounds silly. It still isn't safe with FW .95?

r3animation

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 500

Quote from: Paladin69 on October 11, 2013, 03:21:00 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on October 11, 2013, 03:20:05 PM

Quote from: rrrix on October 11, 2013, 02:57:06 PM

My Jupiter is scheduled for delivery today. Of course I bought a Corsair HX850 - is there any *safe* way to use it, or should I not even plug the thing in?

What if I power on the HX850 and plug in the PCI-E connectors one at a time?

NO! Never plug one at a time whilst on. and please step away from that PSU if you are even contemplating that!!

So even with the much better FW .95 you still wouldn't chance it? How about the 1250 series?

Would you pull out a ram stick or graphics card while you're computer was still on?

The Avenger

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on October 11, 2013, 03:16:40 PM

Quote from: The Avenger on October 11, 2013, 03:04:25 PM

Quote from: timmmers on October 11, 2013, 02:49:24 PM

We all bought an unrefined product did we? Odd, I didn't see those words or anything like that when I paid for mine.
Not in any of the back patting videos or interviews either.

We bought a miner that we were told confidently would have margins upon margins capable of 400Gh and even today no-one has said that this (and the oct 15th date) has changed. Except of course to up it to 550 on the site and most promos ...which currently is false advertising ..as the past 20 pages here bear witness to.

As for all this shite about power consumption...right now is that a big priority to get down? I'd rather have a hashing rig while it's making enough BTC to make a few quid power bill extra irrelevent..later on the power consumption will matter more but not initially compared to a working rig. As long as the PSU handles it, we can wait for a firmware fix to get it down. Hashing reliably without smoke is the priority for users.

The sarcastic tone of Oramas post amazed me, people using fans to reduce temps ..planking? It worked. How bizarre is that? More to the fucking point no-one was talking from KNC end despite much asking...so what else were people to do? "We have a specialist flying in and we'll get back to you as soon as we know something." < see, took me 3 seconds to type that, and even some poor sweaty overworked KnC human could manage that surely?

The way to deal with trainwrecks like this isn't arrogance, sarcasm and silence ..it's communication and apologies and in many cases here where buyers have been so badly let down with multi hosted jupiters...fair compensation.

I wont deal with KnC again, nothing to do with the rigs, it's the denial and head in the sand stuff I can't be living with.

+100000
Totally.

Timmers you are being sensitive. Avenger I'm starting to believe you are a troll. Of course it's unrefined as you well knew. You knew perfectly well they were delivering a product to be placed in your hands in an expedited fashion upon receiving the chips. As such margin upon margins were in place to ensure no post chip receipt refinement was required prior to you being able to hash. Obviously this would mean improvements would then succeed the initiation of delivery, and will continue to do so. There is yet more to come. This is not a first for just Bitcoin mining, this is pretty much a first for the entire IC industry. It's insane. To get this, this right, first time, on 28nm tech is unheard of. Those involved; fab, suppliers, backend, etc. think this is remarkable, and it is.

I ask direct question and you avoid them. It's you're favourite thing to do.

We are talking about shitty communication, lack of updates. Your "sarkiness" and trying to tell a bunch of smart people a PSU is the problem.

And in response, you go rattling on about how remarkable production is! Your answers are stupid and avoid anything pertinent. You are more or less the definition of a troll.

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 11, 2013, 03:12:36 PM

Quote from: Paladin69 on October 11, 2013, 03:08:57 PM

Did I miss something? What is wrong with his PSU? This thread is moving too fast.

KNC is claiming that Corsair (one of the most trusted enthusiast brands) "ramps up current too quickly" and that is why a mining board (powered by Corsair PSU) blew a capacitor. Of course the fact that a high current switching supply SHOULD operate that way should be ignored. The obvious explanation is that Corsair doesn't know how to build power supplies.

No KnC, ORSoC and General Electric's Critical Power Specialist are saying this particular model has an issue on reset that it surges current for 30 seconds.

r3animation

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 500

Quote from: Phoenix1969 on October 11, 2013, 03:19:20 PM

Quote from: Vega on October 11, 2013, 03:16:03 PM

I'm running 0.93. Just tried to upgrade to 0.95, and it seems to work, but after restart the web interface still says that the current firmware revision is 0.93. I tried to upgrade (downgrade) to other versions but it's the same.

It is possible that the upgrade was successful and the web interface displays the wrong version number? Is there a way to check firmware version through ssh?

at least you can access the miner page/tab....I cant... i get "ERROR 500 Internal server error"

When I added my backup pools in CGMiner itself, I broke the web interface. I'm assuming that's the common cause for most people.

Paladin69

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on October 11, 2013, 03:20:05 PM

Quote from: rrrix on October 11, 2013, 02:57:06 PM

My Jupiter is scheduled for delivery today. Of course I bought a Corsair HX850 - is there any *safe* way to use it, or should I not even plug the thing in?

What if I power on the HX850 and plug in the PCI-E connectors one at a time?

NO! Never plug one at a time whilst on. and please step away from that PSU if you are even contemplating that!!

So even with the much better FW .95 you still wouldn't chance it? How about the 1250 series?

FractionalReserve

newbie

Activity: 5

Merit: 0

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 11, 2013, 03:05:44 PM

Quote from: DPoS on October 11, 2013, 03:02:25 PM

Then why not leave the 8 VRMs on for that point??

why are you dodging that? what was the main gain for everyone on taking off the 4 VRMs?? You could keep shipping with 8 until you tested taking off 4.. .how can you try to keep avoiding this logic?

Simple. KNC chose to use an off the shelf power module. This means rapid prototyping but it also means higher cost. Those modules run $25 each. 8 per board means $200 per board in cost just for the power supply. That is $800 per Jupiter. If they leave 4 of them off that is an extra $400 in profit per unit. 1500 units @ $400 ea = $600,000.

There is absolutely no other reason to change the extensively designed, tested and fully operational boards right in the middle of peak production.

Of course thats the reason.

As I understood it they ran the 8 VRM boards with only 4 VRMs activated and without any problems.

When they skipped mounting 4 of the VRMs in production, suddenly the Voltage levels differed.

That has now been fixed with Firmware 0.95 where Voltage offset function in the VRMs has been used to give correct output.

They had an issue, fixed it. No need to discuss this further?

If you have 4 VRM boards DO UPPGRADE TO 0.95 !!!

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: rrrix on October 11, 2013, 02:57:06 PM

My Jupiter is scheduled for delivery today. Of course I bought a Corsair HX850 - is there any *safe* way to use it, or should I not even plug the thing in?

What if I power on the HX850 and plug in the PCI-E connectors one at a time?

NO! Never plug one at a time whilst on. and please step away from that PSU if you are even contemplating that!!

Phoenix1969

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

LIR DEV

Quote from: Vega on October 11, 2013, 03:16:03 PM

I'm running 0.93. Just tried to upgrade to 0.95, and it seems to work, but after restart the web interface still says that the current firmware revision is 0.93. I tried to upgrade (downgrade) to other versions but it's the same.

It is possible that the upgrade was successful and the web interface displays the wrong version number? Is there a way to check firmware version through ssh?

at least you can access the miner page/tab....I cant... i get "ERROR 500 Internal server error"
update page works, status page works, networking does not, and miner page error

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1080

Gerald Davis

Quote from: Phoenix1969 on October 11, 2013, 03:10:03 PM

manufacturing time... takes less time to mount 4 converters than 8....times that by a few thousand units.....

You have to be fucking with me right. They are automated assembly machines. We are talking a half a second (conservatively). It isn't like these are hand soldered. The assembly house is going to crank out thousands of boards a day. If KNC had a big enough run a good assembly house could do tens of thousands of units per day. The automated board construction isn't the bottleneck, it is the rest of the mundane manual stuff like bolting down boards, connecting wires, and mounting heatsinks which takes a "long" time.

RoadStress

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1007

Firmware 0.95 solves the VRM problem and boards seem to work fine with only 4. Thank you Orama and KnC! Welcome to working with customers Orama and enjoy your ride

Of course people are whining, but some are just not realizing that you are trying to push things out of the door as fast as you can and this hiccups are totally understandable. At least for me. The good thing is that you are pushing firmwares and fixes as fast as you can too. Even if KnC isn't perfect it seems that it's the best and the most reasonable "pre-order" ASIC company yet. Great job and keep doing your stuff even if people are complaining as hell.

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: DPoS on October 11, 2013, 03:16:07 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 11, 2013, 03:05:44 PM

Quote from: DPoS on October 11, 2013, 03:02:25 PM

Then why not leave the 8 VRMs on for that point??

why are you dodging that? what was the main gain for everyone on taking off the 4 VRMs?? You could keep shipping with 8 until you tested taking off 4.. .how can you try to keep avoiding this logic?

Simple. KNC chose to use an off the shelf power module. This means rapid prototyping but it also means higher cost. Those modules run $25 each. 8 per board means $200 per board in cost just for the power supply. That is $800 per Jupiter. If they leave 4 of them off that is an extra $400 in profit per unit. 1500 units @ $400 ea = $600,000.

There is absolutely no other reason to change the extensively designed, tested and fully operational boards right in the middle of peak production.

+1

I too say fine with removing 4 VRMs **AFTER** testing

it would take 1 minute to see the wattage increase 70 PER BOARD and heat rise 10C PER BOARD

Actually no. There are many compatibility issues that arise, even with identical components populating the board. It really is like a group of in laws that don't get on with eachother, being made to behave amicably with eachother over time.

r3animation

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 500

Quote from: Vega on October 11, 2013, 03:16:03 PM

I'm running 0.93. Just tried to upgrade to 0.95, and it seems to work, but after restart the web interface still says that the current firmware revision is 0.93. I tried to upgrade (downgrade) to other versions but it's the same.

It is possible that the upgrade was successful and the web interface displays the wrong version number? Is there a way to check firmware version through ssh?

You need to shift+refresh probably to see the updated numbers.

Biomech

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1022

Anarchy is not chaos.

Quote from: rrrix on October 11, 2013, 03:12:08 PM

Quote from: chrono030 on October 11, 2013, 03:01:08 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: rrrix on October 11, 2013, 02:57:06 PM

My Jupiter is scheduled for delivery today. Of course I bought a Corsair HX850 - is there any *safe* way to use it, or should I not even plug the thing in?

What if I power on the HX850 and plug in the PCI-E connectors one at a time?

JESUS

I have absolutely no idea how people with this amount of experience find themselves buying these devices. Really?

Literally in awe when I'm reading some of the questions in here.

brb, gonna go study electrical engineering for a few years and then ask a question that by then I'll already know the answer to. Thanks for clarifying, at least I asked first, instead of frying my stuff.
[/quote]

Good on you! This place is not newbie friendly. I know. Not long since I was in the same boat. (I wouldn't have made the mistake you did, but I made plenty of others!)

Seriously, though. Nearly all ac to dc power supplies are NOT hot pluggable. Not just computer equipment, that's across the board. You can get away with it on a lot of things, but the only one I can think of that's designed to be hot pluggable is a USB phone charger. That's not a slam on ya, btw. Just sayin'.

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: The Avenger on October 11, 2013, 03:04:25 PM

Quote from: timmmers on October 11, 2013, 02:49:24 PM

We all bought an unrefined product did we? Odd, I didn't see those words or anything like that when I paid for mine.
Not in any of the back patting videos or interviews either.

We bought a miner that we were told confidently would have margins upon margins capable of 400Gh and even today no-one has said that this (and the oct 15th date) has changed. Except of course to up it to 550 on the site and most promos ...which currently is false advertising ..as the past 20 pages here bear witness to.

As for all this shite about power consumption...right now is that a big priority to get down? I'd rather have a hashing rig while it's making enough BTC to make a few quid power bill extra irrelevent..later on the power consumption will matter more but not initially compared to a working rig. As long as the PSU handles it, we can wait for a firmware fix to get it down. Hashing reliably without smoke is the priority for users.

The sarcastic tone of Oramas post amazed me, people using fans to reduce temps ..planking? It worked. How bizarre is that? More to the fucking point no-one was talking from KNC end despite much asking...so what else were people to do? "We have a specialist flying in and we'll get back to you as soon as we know something." < see, took me 3 seconds to type that, and even some poor sweaty overworked KnC human could manage that surely?

The way to deal with trainwrecks like this isn't arrogance, sarcasm and silence ..it's communication and apologies and in many cases here where buyers have been so badly let down with multi hosted jupiters...fair compensation.

I wont deal with KnC again, nothing to do with the rigs, it's the denial and head in the sand stuff I can't be living with.

+100000
Totally.

Timmers you are being sensitive. Avenger I'm starting to believe you are a troll. Of course it's unrefined as you well knew. You knew perfectly well they were delivering a product to be placed in your hands in an expedited fashion upon receiving the chips. As such margin upon margins were in place to ensure no post chip receipt refinement was required prior to you being able to hash. Obviously this would mean improvements would then succeed the initiation of delivery, and will continue to do so. There is yet more to come. This is not a first for just Bitcoin mining, this is pretty much a first for the entire IC industry. It's insane. To get this, this right, first time, on 28nm tech is unheard of. Those involved; fab, suppliers, backend, etc. think this is remarkable, and it is.

DPoS

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 11, 2013, 03:05:44 PM

Quote from: DPoS on October 11, 2013, 03:02:25 PM

Then why not leave the 8 VRMs on for that point??

why are you dodging that? what was the main gain for everyone on taking off the 4 VRMs?? You could keep shipping with 8 until you tested taking off 4.. .how can you try to keep avoiding this logic?

Simple. KNC chose to use an off the shelf power module. This means rapid prototyping but it also means higher cost. Those modules run $25 each. 8 per board means $200 per board in cost just for the power supply. That is $800 per Jupiter. If they leave 4 of them off that is an extra $400 in profit per unit. 1500 units @ $400 ea = $600,000.

There is absolutely no other reason to change the extensively designed, tested and fully operational boards right in the middle of peak production.

+1

I too say fine with removing 4 VRMs **AFTER** testing

it would take 1 minute to see the wattage increase 70 PER BOARD and heat rise 10C PER BOARD

Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1382. (Read 3050075 times)