Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 971.

Kaliecious

full member

Activity: 246

Merit: 100

Quote from: ecliptic on November 26, 2013, 12:49:40 AM

Quote from: Scoobypup on November 25, 2013, 11:55:35 PM

None of that matters. You simply do the math for when your miners will stop being profitable (when you'd stop mining), and instead buy btc and hold until that time. You will always end up more profitable that way than if you buy hardware to mine.
I didn't do this the first time and instead bought miners from KnC. I will now be lucky if I make half as much btc as I could have if I just bought it at the time I placed my order. The only true winners in the mining game are those who make the miners. The rest are just chumps regardless of how you try and spin it.

Except that i can spend 4000$ (5 BTC) to buy a miner that nets 15+ BTC over a few months

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels.

If the exchanges are getting geared for the rules they are going to have to follow they will have to give you annual reports of your gains or losses for tax purposes

DPoS

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: ecliptic on November 26, 2013, 01:14:13 AM

Quote from: DPoS on November 26, 2013, 01:02:25 AM

Quote from: ecliptic on November 26, 2013, 12:49:40 AM

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels.

I doubt BTCe is sending out any 1099-B's

Haahahahahahahahahah I like the part where you thought a government agency, responsible for the income of the entire government, was dependent on some shady russians to inform them about your 5-7 digit financial tax evading wheeling and dealing.

Seems like a lot of people are going to be in jail for tax evasions, I'll have to stock up on popcorn for audit season Grin

you took a leap there... happy travels

joeventura

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 500

Quote from: ecliptic on November 26, 2013, 12:49:40 AM

Quote from: Scoobypup on November 25, 2013, 11:55:35 PM

None of that matters. You simply do the math for when your miners will stop being profitable (when you'd stop mining), and instead buy btc and hold until that time. You will always end up more profitable that way than if you buy hardware to mine.
I didn't do this the first time and instead bought miners from KnC. I will now be lucky if I make half as much btc as I could have if I just bought it at the time I placed my order. The only true winners in the mining game are those who make the miners. The rest are just chumps regardless of how you try and spin it.

Except that i can spend 4000$ (5 BTC) to buy a miner that nets 15+ BTC over a few months

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels.

Transactions under $10k here in the U.S. get reported to no one.
My coin seller does not have my SSN therefore there is no way the IRS has diddly so I will call your statement above (as it relates to me) crap.

madsusies

sr. member

Activity: 428

Merit: 250

BitcoinEvo [$XBTE]

Yes us folk, you will pay an annual tax frim btc income, thx god this s't doesn't existing in EU (we mostly pay 30% from salary as tax for hospital, insurance ect we do not pay annual tax at all)

ecliptic

sr. member

Activity: 322

Merit: 250

Quote from: DPoS on November 26, 2013, 01:02:25 AM

Quote from: ecliptic on November 26, 2013, 12:49:40 AM

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels.

I doubt BTCe is sending out any 1099-B's

Haahahahahahahahahah I like the part where you thought a government agency, responsible for the income of the entire government, was dependent on some shady russians to inform them about your 5-7 digit financial tax evading wheeling and dealing.

Seems like a lot of people are going to be in jail for tax evasions, I'll have to stock up on popcorn for audit season Grin

DPoS

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: ecliptic on November 26, 2013, 12:49:40 AM

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels.

I doubt BTCe is sending out any 1099-B's

ecliptic

sr. member

Activity: 322

Merit: 250

Quote from: Scoobypup on November 25, 2013, 11:55:35 PM

None of that matters. You simply do the math for when your miners will stop being profitable (when you'd stop mining), and instead buy btc and hold until that time. You will always end up more profitable that way than if you buy hardware to mine.
I didn't do this the first time and instead bought miners from KnC. I will now be lucky if I make half as much btc as I could have if I just bought it at the time I placed my order. The only true winners in the mining game are those who make the miners. The rest are just chumps regardless of how you try and spin it.

Except that i can spend 4000$ (5 BTC) to buy a miner that nets 15+ BTC over a few months

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels.

DPoS

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: Scoobypup on November 26, 2013, 12:19:07 AM

For an individual...for any given profitable timeframe, if the product will not produce more btc than it cost to purchase initially, then it is not a good investment.

I was alluding to things like 0% interest rates, or balance sheet tricks like buying miners, selling one btc before end of Dec, then claiming a miner price as cost basis to claim a loss, but then sell Jan and not have to pay on the gains for a year and use that money to make other money.. that's the whole time-value-of-money

there are deeper and sketchier things going then these examples

1l1l11ll1l

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1000

Quote from: monsieur on November 26, 2013, 12:16:40 AM

Quote from: merv77 on November 26, 2013, 12:08:49 AM

anyone getting weird results/hash rate at eligius Huh

I gave up on Eligius a day ago. Can't stand all the variance, and luck seems to be crappy lately. Switched to 7.5% fee BTC Guild PPS for now.

Hit mineb.tc for 5% PPS, rock solid pool.

waterboi92

member

Activity: 82

Merit: 10

Quote from: DPoS on November 25, 2013, 07:39:04 PM

Quote from: kronut on November 25, 2013, 04:17:00 PM

In fact if you bought BTC with what you paid for your miner, you would be much better off, except everyone seems to ignore this.

And folks that say this over and over always ignore the bigger elephant which is what is your target sell price?

So, right now, say how much BTC you will buy today and how high you will wait to sell. I don't remember anyone saying they were buying $14000 worth of BTC in June and holding until they were $800 each

What matters is how much more $$$ you end up with. If you end up with more $$$ after only mining 60-80% of your BTC back since you end up selling at a later time than if you just bought btc and then had your weak hands shook, and only gained half of what you would of if you bought miners and mined..

talk about that side of reality.. the human element

so in summary, the people who keep repeating this dogma of just buy btc instead of mining are the people that don't want anyone else to mine... game theory 101

well said...i agree with this.

+1

Scoobypup

newbie

Activity: 39

Merit: 0

Quote from: DPoS on November 26, 2013, 12:03:18 AM

Quote from: Scoobypup on November 25, 2013, 11:55:35 PM

None of that matters. You simply do the math for when your miners will stop being profitable (when you'd stop mining), and instead buy btc and hold until that time. You will always end up more profitable that way than if you buy hardware to mine.
I didn't do this the first time and instead bought miners from KnC. I will now be lucky if I make half as much btc as I could have if I just bought it at the time I placed my order. The only true winners in the mining game are those who make the miners. The rest are just chumps regardless of how you try and spin it.

In the simple situation you and many others keep repeating, yes. But there is a whole other side of cost-basis, time-value-of-money etc that I won't bother to bring up. If you understand you understand, if you don't then that is why Wall Street & FED never has to worry about the masses rising up against them

When it comes to taxes and being a legit business, I agree. However, I and most I assume, are not in that situation and can easily forgo those complications. For us, it does not make sense to pay another company to produce an item that will "mine" back less than it cost us to purchase in the first place regardless of the fiat equivalent of our investments or payouts.
For an individual...for any given profitable timeframe, if the product will not produce more btc than it cost to purchase initially, then it is not a good investment.

TheJuice

hero member

Activity: 845

Merit: 609

Quote from: 1l1l11ll1l on November 25, 2013, 11:24:37 PM

Quote from: opentoe on November 25, 2013, 10:45:04 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on November 25, 2013, 04:33:16 PM

The order book will likely open either tomorrow, or in the coming days.

Not sure what you mean by what kind of refusal? In any case wait and see at the point of announcement.

Dare say it will be first come first served to previous customers for a designated period of time. I have no idea of there is a limit, or whether there's a reseller program. Though of there is please use the reseller link in my sig. Ta v.much Wink

Order book for what? We have zero tech specs on the devices, how many there will be and other companies are coming quicker and quicker to release all their hardware. One another competitor throw out his 1TG rig for $5k, KNC will have to tqake ALOT of money off their asking price of $7,000 or even higher. Once greed sets it it's almost impossible to control.

It'll be interesting to see the new specs. From my limited knowledge 20nm is equal/slightly less powerful than 26nm per transistor (but more transistors) and more efficient. My guess is ~70% increase in hash per chip with same/reduced draw. I'll give a 25% boost to optimization aswell.

My estimate: March shipping, 1.5 Tera-Hash drawing 600W for $2-3k. (this of course is modular), Expect the main offering to be 4.5 Thash for ~6-8k. This will draw 1800 watts.

madsusies

sr. member

Activity: 428

Merit: 250

BitcoinEvo [$XBTE]

Quote from: merv77 on November 26, 2013, 12:08:49 AM

anyone getting weird results/hash rate at eligius Huh

EDIT. they seem to be down for me at moment. Are being DDoS'd?

Yes 49ghas instead 100ghas

DPoS

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: kronut on November 26, 2013, 12:05:01 AM

This is actually a great point, who knows if I would have sold in stead of investing in equipment, with it stuck in hardware, at least I can't spend it on something else.

It's the main reason I bought 2 upgrade modules.. I re-bought the 5.8 BTC @ 350 each when I bought the modules and now that got me to more than double the BTC coming out of them since I sell everyday (that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.. besides buying major dips and flipping quickly)

I didn't have high expectations going into this, so I have already exceeded them

monsieur

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

knc-shill-wannabe

Quote from: merv77 on November 26, 2013, 12:08:49 AM

anyone getting weird results/hash rate at eligius Huh

I gave up on Eligius a day ago. Can't stand all the variance, and luck seems to be crappy lately. Switched to 7.5% fee BTC Guild PPS for now.

merv77

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

1.21 GIGA WATTS

anyone getting weird results/hash rate at eligius Huh

EDIT. they seem to be down for me at moment. Are being DDoS'd?

kronut

member

Activity: 86

Merit: 10

Quote from: DPoS on November 25, 2013, 11:50:10 PM

You assume you would keep those BTC through all the ups and downs of the market and not sell? What if you bought BTC and sold when it went up 2x or 4x?

What if you did hold till it past 10x and then the next week it crashes to 2x? Would you be on here saying you should of sold at 10x?

Is BTC going to go to $900,000 and we all should never ever sell ever ever?

This is actually a great point, who knows if I would have sold in stead of investing in equipment, with it stuck in hardware, at least I can't spend it on something else.

BTW, anyone up for the frankenminer? : http://www.ebay.com/itm/301026517238

DPoS

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: Scoobypup on November 25, 2013, 11:55:35 PM

None of that matters. You simply do the math for when your miners will stop being profitable (when you'd stop mining), and instead buy btc and hold until that time. You will always end up more profitable that way than if you buy hardware to mine.
I didn't do this the first time and instead bought miners from KnC. I will now be lucky if I make half as much btc as I could have if I just bought it at the time I placed my order. The only true winners in the mining game are those who make the miners. The rest are just chumps regardless of how you try and spin it.

In the simple situation you and many others keep repeating, yes. But there is a whole other side of cost-basis, time-value-of-money etc that I won't bother to bring up. If you understand you understand, if you don't then that is why Wall Street & FED never has to worry about the masses rising up against them

joeventura

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 500

Quote from: DPoS on November 25, 2013, 11:50:10 PM

Quote from: kronut on November 25, 2013, 08:18:31 PM

The thought process is fairly easy in my case, will I make more BTC by reinvesting them, or should I just hold onto my BTC? In this case, since the price went up 7-8x, I should have held my BTC.

You assume you would keep those BTC through all the ups and downs of the market and not sell? What if you bought BTC and sold when it went up 2x or 4x?

What if you did hold till it past 10x and then the next week it crashes to 2x? Would you be on here saying you should of sold at 10x?

Is BTC going to go to $900,000 and we all should never ever sell ever ever?

Like any good investment you dollar cost average in, and do the same going out.

When you have a basis for your BTC of about $100 per (assuming you bought some) and its $850 today, if you don't start slowly getting out then you are just a greedy bitch who doesn't know what they are doing.

I have X in cold storage and now I just start selling when the price is favorable every few days.

You don't get the "R" in ROI unless you take some profit.

madsusies

sr. member

Activity: 428

Merit: 250

BitcoinEvo [$XBTE]

Quote from: btc_uzr on November 25, 2013, 07:02:32 PM

Quote from: ASIC-K on November 25, 2013, 06:41:23 PM

if they use bit pay only again and sell out in 3 minutes. I'm coming to sweden and burning down their offices

GIVE US MORE HARDWARE !!!

the image posted in October came to my mind, had to repost it

It's insane investing 5k in Btc and wait for day D when bitcoin jump up and down in value of 100$, meanwhile i doubt they will sell October type of board Sad

better investing in new next jupiter (hope paiment in $). The last news looks for me like type from USA? Huh

It appeared between 10pm and 4am WTF Sad

Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 971. (Read 3050071 times)