T20 and T20I cricket prediction and discussion - page 1099.

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Quote from: wd1 on September 03, 2022, 06:40:16 AM

As you can see they moved to the country a long time ago. I am pretty sure they will have some kind of citizenship. Do you have anything confirming your statement that both these teams have 0 citizens.

UAE very rarely grant citizenship to anyone other than Arabs. Even children of second generation migrants from India and Pakistan doesn't qualify for Arab citizenship. Even the residency permit is difficult to get. When citizenship is granted to someone from India and Pakistan, it makes to front page news. Less than 100 individuals with South Asian origin have got the UAE citizenship till now and most of them are senior citizens who have lived there for 30-40 years. Same with Oman as well. Hong Kong also has very restrictive naturalization rules, but in rare cases they have granted citizenship to migrants from South Asia.

ICC rules were changed sometime ago. If I am not wrong, it was in 2006 or 2007 under the Pawar-Srinivasan mafia. Before that, only citizens were permitted to represent a country.

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India and Pakistan will be playing at Dubai stadium tomorrow, unfortunately the advantage for the chasing team there is huge. 15 of the last 16 matches have been won by the chasing team. I think whoever wins the toss should be favorite to win the match.

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Quote from: Vaskiy on September 03, 2022, 05:52:19 AM

according to me it looks like Hong Kong people aren't interested in cricket. That seems to be the prime reason why the team doesn't have an ethnic Han Chinese. Maybe that's the reason, people who migrated from India and Pakistan have formed the team and playing for Hong Kong.

Hong Kong native peoples never been interested in cricket, but 25 years back when they were under English administration they were enjoying cricket, so China never change this policy just because of this they are still playing and in last 25 years mostly they have players from these countries like India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka with few years back there were Australian and New Zealanders were also doing some stuff, but they are doing good job as they are coming in Asia Cup frequently after beating few teams like Nepal, Malaysia, UAE and Kuwait which mean they have quality for this game.

But here again most guilty party is ICC and ACC they never bring any policy for native players as they need to implement things like minimum four or five players could be native for every country hopefully this will bring any better idea, and we have Nepal at their best level with all native players but sadly never been good to face these countries which have all adopted players in their squads.

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Quote from: wd1 on September 03, 2022, 06:30:40 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on September 03, 2022, 06:22:32 AM

Quote from: wd1 on September 03, 2022, 06:18:03 AM

Well again, they hold Hong Kong citizenship. I would assume their loyalty will now be with Hong Kong and that's where they would be living. So yeah they do represent their country. Doesn't matter what their origin is. The reason there aren't any local players is that most people there aren't interested in cricket.

Also yes if those people have immigrated to Brazil and Argentina, have their citizenship and live there. I wouldn't have a problem with that even it is full team and is selected on merit. That is their country now. Actually I would give you a real life example and have a question for you as well.

The 2018 world cup winning team France team had like 2-4 native players. Everybody else was an immigrant or kids of immigrants from different countries. Do you think it wasn't a good representation of the country?

No. The players don't have Hong Kong citizenship. Some of them have lived in Hong Kong for many years, but only one player is having citizenship. And you can't compare Hong Kong cricket team with French football team. As per the ICC rules and regulations, it is possible to form a national team with zero citizens. "National" teams of UAE, Oman.etc doesn't contain any citizens from that country. That is not possible in other sports. As per FIFA regulations, only citizens can represent a national team. FIBA goes one step further and they have a clause which states that states that only one naturalized citizen can be included in the national team.

Don't try to divert the topic. My issue is with citizenship, and not with ethnicity. If the team is made up of Hong Kong citizens, then I don't have any issue with the team. But that is not the case.

I am not trying to divert the topic. I wasn't aware of that. Do you have any source confirming that Hong players don't have citizenship and about the ICC rule?

Also I am looking at UAE team to actually see if they have 0 citizens of the country. The first two links (the captain and the vice captain) are these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Raza_(Emirati_cricketer)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirag_Suri

As you can see they moved to the country a long time ago. I am pretty sure they will have some kind of citizenship. Do you have anything confirming your statement that both these teams have 0 citizens.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 03, 2022, 06:22:32 AM

Quote from: wd1 on September 03, 2022, 06:18:03 AM

Well again, they hold Hong Kong citizenship. I would assume their loyalty will now be with Hong Kong and that's where they would be living. So yeah they do represent their country. Doesn't matter what their origin is. The reason there aren't any local players is that most people there aren't interested in cricket.

Also yes if those people have immigrated to Brazil and Argentina, have their citizenship and live there. I wouldn't have a problem with that even it is full team and is selected on merit. That is their country now. Actually I would give you a real life example and have a question for you as well.

The 2018 world cup winning team France team had like 2-4 native players. Everybody else was an immigrant or kids of immigrants from different countries. Do you think it wasn't a good representation of the country?

No. The players don't have Hong Kong citizenship. Some of them have lived in Hong Kong for many years, but only one player is having citizenship. And you can't compare Hong Kong cricket team with French football team. As per the ICC rules and regulations, it is possible to form a national team with zero citizens. "National" teams of UAE, Oman.etc doesn't contain any citizens from that country. That is not possible in other sports. As per FIFA regulations, only citizens can represent a national team. FIBA goes one step further and they have a clause which states that states that only one naturalized citizen can be included in the national team.

Don't try to divert the topic. My issue is with citizenship, and not with ethnicity. If the team is made up of Hong Kong citizens, then I don't have any issue with the team. But that is not the case.

I am not trying to divert the topic. I wasn't aware of that. Do you have any source confirming that Hong players don't have citizenship and about the ICC rule?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: I have looked at it and yes I think I was wrong that citizenship isn't required in cricket necessarily. So my football example wasn't real valid since the rules are much more relaxed here. Still I think 3 years of residency is decent enough to represent a country.

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Quote from: wd1 on September 03, 2022, 06:18:03 AM

Well again, they hold Hong Kong citizenship. I would assume their loyalty will now be with Hong Kong and that's where they would be living. So yeah they do represent their country. Doesn't matter what their origin is. The reason there aren't any local players is that most people there aren't interested in cricket.

Also yes if those people have immigrated to Brazil and Argentina, have their citizenship and live there. I wouldn't have a problem with that even it is full team and is selected on merit. That is their country now. Actually I would give you a real life example and have a question for you as well.

The 2018 world cup winning team France team had like 2-4 native players. Everybody else was an immigrant or kids of immigrants from different countries. Do you think it wasn't a good representation of the country?

No. The players don't have Hong Kong citizenship. Some of them have lived in Hong Kong for many years, but only one player is having citizenship. And you can't compare Hong Kong cricket team with French football team. As per the ICC rules and regulations, it is possible to form a national team with zero citizens. "National" teams of UAE, Oman.etc doesn't contain any citizens from that country. That is not possible in other sports. As per FIFA regulations, only citizens can represent a national team. FIBA goes one step further and they have a clause which states that states that only one naturalized citizen can be included in the national team.

Don't try to divert the topic. My issue is with citizenship, and not with ethnicity. If the team is made up of Hong Kong citizens, then I don't have any issue with the team. But that is not the case.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 03, 2022, 05:24:53 AM

^^^ The question is whether the Hong Kong team represents the nation of Hong Kong? I am sure that the Nepal team does represent their country. Next time, if I organize a group of Indians and Pakistanis, and label them as Brazil or Argentina, do you think that the people of the Latin Americans countries will support that team? 99% of the population of Hong Kong is comprised of ethnic Han Chinese. How can a team that doesn't have a single Han Chinese be termed as "Hong Kong national team"? I don't think that anyone in Hong Kong is even aware that a team labelled as HK is playing in the Asia Cup.

Well again, they hold Hong Kong citizenship. I would assume their loyalty will now be with Hong Kong and that's where they would be living. So yeah they do represent their country. Doesn't matter what their origin is. The reason there aren't any local players is that most people there aren't interested in cricket.

Also yes if those people have immigrated to Brazil and Argentina, have their citizenship and live there. I wouldn't have a problem with that even it is full team and is selected on merit. That is their country now. Actually I would give you a real life example and have a question for you as well.

The 2018 world cup winning team France team had like 2-4 native players. Everybody else was an immigrant or kids of immigrants from different countries. Do you think it wasn't a good representation of the country?

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 03, 2022, 05:24:53 AM

^^^ The question is whether the Hong Kong team represents the nation of Hong Kong? I am sure that the Nepal team does represent their country. Next time, if I organize a group of Indians and Pakistanis, and label them as Brazil or Argentina, do you think that the people of the Latin Americans countries will support that team? 99% of the population of Hong Kong is comprised of ethnic Han Chinese. How can a team that doesn't have a single Han Chinese be termed as "Hong Kong national team"? I don't think that anyone in Hong Kong is even aware that a team labelled as HK is playing in the Asia Cup.

Maybe you're right, according to me it looks like Hong Kong people aren't interested in cricket. That seems to be the prime reason why the team doesn't have an ethnic Han Chinese. Maybe that's the reason, people who migrated from India and Pakistan have formed the team and playing for Hong Kong.

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^^^ The question is whether the Hong Kong team represents the nation of Hong Kong? I am sure that the Nepal team does represent their country. Next time, if I organize a group of Indians and Pakistanis, and label them as Brazil or Argentina, do you think that the people of the Latin Americans countries will support that team? 99% of the population of Hong Kong is comprised of ethnic Han Chinese. How can a team that doesn't have a single Han Chinese be termed as "Hong Kong national team"? I don't think that anyone in Hong Kong is even aware that a team labelled as HK is playing in the Asia Cup.

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Quote from: Vaskiy on September 03, 2022, 03:30:28 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on September 03, 2022, 02:51:09 AM

Quote from: Vaskiy on September 03, 2022, 01:22:52 AM

Every player have turned to be native players. Maybe the country they've born is different, most of the players have been playing for Hong Kong since 2010. This means playing from the U-19 cricket. One or two have played for home country and have got into the Hong Kong team after completing the residency procedure to be the citizen of Hong Kong.

As far as I know, there was only one Hong Kong citizen in the playing XI. And that was the keeper Scott McKechnie, who has dual citizenship from England as well. All the other players were citizens of India or Pakistan. They might have performed well in the qualifying tournament. But if they perform like this, they don't deserve to be in this tournament instead of teams that are playing with native players. They were bowled out for 38 runs! Even if Nepal or Japan performs like this, there is a future benefit in their participation. That benefit is not there with Hong Kong if they refuse to include native players.

Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I came across Nizakat Khan is Pakistan born and playing since 2010 for Hong Kong. Yasim Murtaza from Pakistan, after completing his period of residency now only added to the team. Babar Hayat is Pakistan born and is playing for Hong Kong since 2012. Kinchit Shah is an Indian born, but playing for Hong Kong since 2011. Aizaz Khan is a native Hong Kong born player and is into the team since 2009. Scott McKechnie is into the team since 2017. Mohammad Ghazanfar is in the U-19 team since 2010.

As said only one player is native of Hong Kong, but the rest of the players have been playing long terms for Hong Kong. Maybe the board have got different policies, but these players just holding dual citizenship can't be stamped as foreign players.

It doesn't matter if they are native or not in this context. It is unfair to say that they are not deserving to play in a tournament just because the other option is better for the game. That is secondary. I know that if Nepal played that would have brought a lot more eyes from their country compared to Hong Kong. But that isn't any kind of justification to knock other countries away when they qualified fair and square.

You can say that its better for the game if for example Nepal qualified instead of Hong Kong. But to say what you are saying is again disrespectful to the players (who have a lot of passion btw and work very hard) and the country.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 03, 2022, 02:51:09 AM

Quote from: Vaskiy on September 03, 2022, 01:22:52 AM

Every player have turned to be native players. Maybe the country they've born is different, most of the players have been playing for Hong Kong since 2010. This means playing from the U-19 cricket. One or two have played for home country and have got into the Hong Kong team after completing the residency procedure to be the citizen of Hong Kong.

As far as I know, there was only one Hong Kong citizen in the playing XI. And that was the keeper Scott McKechnie, who has dual citizenship from England as well. All the other players were citizens of India or Pakistan. They might have performed well in the qualifying tournament. But if they perform like this, they don't deserve to be in this tournament instead of teams that are playing with native players. They were bowled out for 38 runs! Even if Nepal or Japan performs like this, there is a future benefit in their participation. That benefit is not there with Hong Kong if they refuse to include native players.

Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I came across Nizakat Khan is Pakistan born and playing since 2010 for Hong Kong. Yasim Murtaza from Pakistan, after completing his period of residency now only added to the team. Babar Hayat is Pakistan born and is playing for Hong Kong since 2012. Kinchit Shah is an Indian born, but playing for Hong Kong since 2011. Aizaz Khan is a native Hong Kong born player and is into the team since 2009. Scott McKechnie is into the team since 2017. Mohammad Ghazanfar is in the U-19 team since 2010.

As said only one player is native of Hong Kong, but the rest of the players have been playing long terms for Hong Kong. Maybe the board have got different policies, but these players just holding dual citizenship can't be stamped as foreign players.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 03, 2022, 02:51:09 AM

Quote from: Vaskiy on September 03, 2022, 01:22:52 AM

Every player have turned to be native players. Maybe the country they've born is different, most of the players have been playing for Hong Kong since 2010. This means playing from the U-19 cricket. One or two have played for home country and have got into the Hong Kong team after completing the residency procedure to be the citizen of Hong Kong.

As far as I know, there was only one Hong Kong citizen in the playing XI. And that was the keeper Scott McKechnie, who has dual citizenship from England as well. All the other players were citizens of India or Pakistan. They might have performed well in the qualifying tournament. But if they perform like this, they don't deserve to be in this tournament instead of teams that are playing with native players. They were bowled out for 38 runs! Even if Nepal or Japan performs like this, there is a future benefit in their participation. That benefit is not there with Hong Kong if they refuse to include native players.

Well again, its simple really. They qualified and they deserved to be in the tournament. Every other external factors is secondary. If other teams want to come in instead, there's a very fair way. Play better!

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Quote from: Vaskiy on September 03, 2022, 01:22:52 AM

Every player have turned to be native players. Maybe the country they've born is different, most of the players have been playing for Hong Kong since 2010. This means playing from the U-19 cricket. One or two have played for home country and have got into the Hong Kong team after completing the residency procedure to be the citizen of Hong Kong.

As far as I know, there was only one Hong Kong citizen in the playing XI. And that was the keeper Scott McKechnie, who has dual citizenship from England as well. All the other players were citizens of India or Pakistan. They might have performed well in the qualifying tournament. But if they perform like this, they don't deserve to be in this tournament instead of teams that are playing with native players. They were bowled out for 38 runs! Even if Nepal or Japan performs like this, there is a future benefit in their participation. That benefit is not there with Hong Kong if they refuse to include native players.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on September 03, 2022, 12:37:01 AM

Quote from: wd1 on September 03, 2022, 12:22:21 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on September 02, 2022, 09:04:05 PM

It was a disaster yesterday. Hong Kong was really pathetic. They conceded close to 200 runs while fielding first and then lost the match by 150 runs. And this is the reason why I want ICC to prohibit teams sending 100% foreign citizen squads to such tournaments. Hong Kong stole the slot from teams with native players (Nepal, Malaysia.etc) and then put up a pathetic performance against Pakistan. If the ICC doesn't take concrete actions, at least the ACC should make it mandatory to have at least 3-4 native players in the XI.

First of all they weren't just gifted this spot. They came in Asia cup through a proper qualification process which Included Malaysia and Nepal too in the early stages, and they didn't even qualify for the qualifiers. So just because they had more native players they would have given a better performance? Your reasoning is absurd.

They represent the country they are playing for, doesn't matter if they are native or not. I think by saying that there aren't native players you mean they lack passion. Read this article:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ind-vs-hk-asia-cup-2022-hong-kong-are-at-the-asia-cup-to-cause-an-upset-or-two-says-coach-trent-johnson-1331547

Last night was a disaster for Hong Kong not because they hired overseas players but because Pakistan bowlers bowled brilliantly. While Pakistan's batters struggled till the 13th over after that they reached the score which was impossible for Hong kong to chase. I would personally also like to see native guys being part of the national team of Hong Kong but it will only happen when Cricket Hong Kong decides how to promote cricket. Regardless of having hired players or native players every team was given equal opportunity to qualify for the Asia cup.

Every player have turned to be native players. Maybe the country they've born is different, most of the players have been playing for Hong Kong since 2010. This means playing from the U-19 cricket. One or two have played for home country and have got into the Hong Kong team after completing the residency procedure to be the citizen of Hong Kong.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on September 03, 2022, 12:37:01 AM

Quote from: wd1 on September 03, 2022, 12:22:21 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on September 02, 2022, 09:04:05 PM

It was a disaster yesterday. Hong Kong was really pathetic. They conceded close to 200 runs while fielding first and then lost the match by 150 runs. And this is the reason why I want ICC to prohibit teams sending 100% foreign citizen squads to such tournaments. Hong Kong stole the slot from teams with native players (Nepal, Malaysia.etc) and then put up a pathetic performance against Pakistan. If the ICC doesn't take concrete actions, at least the ACC should make it mandatory to have at least 3-4 native players in the XI.

First of all they weren't just gifted this spot. They came in Asia cup through a proper qualification process which Included Malaysia and Nepal too in the early stages, and they didn't even qualify for the qualifiers. So just because they had more native players they would have given a better performance? Your reasoning is absurd.

They represent the country they are playing for, doesn't matter if they are native or not. I think by saying that there aren't native players you mean they lack passion. Read this article:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ind-vs-hk-asia-cup-2022-hong-kong-are-at-the-asia-cup-to-cause-an-upset-or-two-says-coach-trent-johnson-1331547

Last night was a disaster for Hong Kong not because they hired overseas players but because Pakistan bowlers bowled brilliantly. While Pakistan's batters struggled till the 13th over after that they reached the score which was impossible for Hong kong to chase. I would personally also like to see native guys being part of the national team of Hong Kong but it will only happen when Cricket Hong Kong decides how to promote cricket. Regardless of having hired players or native players every team was given equal opportunity to qualify for the Asia cup.

Well said! I would also like to see some local no matter what associate nation is playing. I was just disappointed in the way they said it was the reason that Hong Kong lost, which seems a little disrespectful to the team and the players.

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Quote from: wd1 on September 03, 2022, 12:22:21 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on September 02, 2022, 09:04:05 PM

It was a disaster yesterday. Hong Kong was really pathetic. They conceded close to 200 runs while fielding first and then lost the match by 150 runs. And this is the reason why I want ICC to prohibit teams sending 100% foreign citizen squads to such tournaments. Hong Kong stole the slot from teams with native players (Nepal, Malaysia.etc) and then put up a pathetic performance against Pakistan. If the ICC doesn't take concrete actions, at least the ACC should make it mandatory to have at least 3-4 native players in the XI.

First of all they weren't just gifted this spot. They came in Asia cup through a proper qualification process which Included Malaysia and Nepal too in the early stages, and they didn't even qualify for the qualifiers. So just because they had more native players they would have given a better performance? Your reasoning is absurd.

They represent the country they are playing for, doesn't matter if they are native or not. I think by saying that there aren't native players you mean they lack passion. Read this article:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ind-vs-hk-asia-cup-2022-hong-kong-are-at-the-asia-cup-to-cause-an-upset-or-two-says-coach-trent-johnson-1331547

Last night was a disaster for Hong Kong not because they hired overseas players but because Pakistan bowlers bowled brilliantly. While Pakistan's batters struggled till the 13th over after that they reached the score which was impossible for Hong kong to chase. I would personally also like to see native guys being part of the national team of Hong Kong but it will only happen when Cricket Hong Kong decides how to promote cricket. Regardless of having hired players or native players every team was given equal opportunity to qualify for the Asia cup.

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Quote from: noormcs5 on September 03, 2022, 12:12:08 AM

Coming to today's match, between Afghanistan and Srilanka, it think Afghanistan has a better chances of wining and their performance is also impressive in this series.

However, if we see the odds for today's match, you will find Srilanka to be the favorite. I wonder how many of you think that Srilanka is a better team than Afghanistan?

Wow that sounds pretty surprising. I agree that Afghanistan has a better change of winning in the first place, not just from a value stand point. The match is at Sharjah and to me the most important things there are to have good spinners, and to have an explosive opening partnership that can take advantage of the powerplay before the ball gets soft. Afghanistan is good as anybody in that department in this tournament, certainly better than Sri Lanka at least.

And Afghanistan absolutely outclassed Sri Lanka the last time they played too.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 02, 2022, 09:04:05 PM

It was a disaster yesterday. Hong Kong was really pathetic. They conceded close to 200 runs while fielding first and then lost the match by 150 runs. And this is the reason why I want ICC to prohibit teams sending 100% foreign citizen squads to such tournaments. Hong Kong stole the slot from teams with native players (Nepal, Malaysia.etc) and then put up a pathetic performance against Pakistan. If the ICC doesn't take concrete actions, at least the ACC should make it mandatory to have at least 3-4 native players in the XI.

First of all they weren't just gifted this spot. They came in Asia cup through a proper qualification process which Included Malaysia and Nepal too in the early stages, and they didn't even qualify for the qualifiers. So just because they had more native players they would have given a better performance? Your reasoning is absurd.

They represent the country they are playing for, doesn't matter if they are native or not. I think by saying that there aren't native players you mean they lack passion. Read this article:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ind-vs-hk-asia-cup-2022-hong-kong-are-at-the-asia-cup-to-cause-an-upset-or-two-says-coach-trent-johnson-1331547

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Coming to today's match, between Afghanistan and Srilanka, it think Afghanistan has a better chances of wining and their performance is also impressive in this series.

However, if we see the odds for today's match, you will find Srilanka to be the favorite. I wonder how many of you think that Srilanka is a better team than Afghanistan?

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on September 02, 2022, 11:10:30 PM

Quote from: noormcs5 on September 02, 2022, 11:02:11 PM

Quote from: GigaBit on September 02, 2022, 10:33:51 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on September 02, 2022, 09:04:05 PM

It was a disaster yesterday. Hong Kong was really pathetic. They conceded close to 200 runs while fielding first and then lost the match by 150 runs. And this is the reason why I want ICC to prohibit teams sending 100% foreign citizen squads to such tournaments. Hong Kong stole the slot from teams with native players (Nepal, Malaysia.etc) and then put up a pathetic performance against Pakistan. If the ICC doesn't take concrete actions, at least the ACC should make it mandatory to have at least 3-4 native players in the XI.

This is an important fact. If almost all the players of a country are foreigners then that country has no identity. They can take maximum two players but if most of the players are from outside then it will not bring anything positive attitude for cricket. ICC should take a decision on this matter soon. The recent major disaster in Hong Kong has discouraged cricket fans. When there is no professionalism in cricket, such type of condition usually happen.

Yes, that is another aspect to the Hong Kong team. When you have all the foreign players in your team, there will be no patriotism in your team and everyone will be playing only for the money. Also, they may lack coordination and teamwork.
Usually when a team loss, they feel ashamed as they have to face their nation, but in this case, hong kong does not have any local players in their team. Isn't there any cricket talent in their own country Huh

Hong Kong has no players of its own. And I hear everyone is a part-time player. All are involved in other activities or jobs and occasionally play in Hong Kong jerseys. What else can we expect from such a team? If Hong Kong had kept these players permanently in the team with sufficient wages, and given them facilities like other teams, then maybe they would have batted a little more responsibly. However, as long as the people of Hong Kong are interested in cricket, we will continue to see such erratic and poor performances.

As they are involved with other professions, it is natural that their performance will be poor. But in some matches they perform very well which looks like they are very good team.

After all if these players take cricket as a profession and practice regularly, then their performance will definitely be good. In this regard ICC and cricket board of that country can take necessary steps about them.

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