TAINTED COINS | Bitcointalksearch.org

bazzaa1977

newbie

Activity: 44

Merit: 0

Quote from: odolvlobo on January 25, 2016, 02:10:15 PM

Quote from: bazzaa1977 on January 25, 2016, 12:59:59 PM

WOW.
I'm more confused as ever now.

No need to be confused. Let's review:

1. "Taint" is measure of the portion of the coins at one address that came from another address (either directly or indirectly). A taint value can be computed for every pair of addresses.

2. Some people might also refer to coins (or more accurately coins at an address) as being tainted if the taint value between the address and an address known to receive stolen coins is high.

3. There are no individual coins. There are only amounts of coins.

Cool, thanks.

bazzaa1977

newbie

Activity: 44

Merit: 0

Quote from: DannyHamilton on January 25, 2016, 02:38:26 PM

Quote from: bazzaa1977 on January 25, 2016, 12:59:59 PM

WOW.

I'm more confused as ever now.

There are a lot of users on this forum that know very little (or even nothing at all) about how bitcoin works. Unfortunately, the lack of knowledge doesn't prevent them from answering questions and giving advice. As a result, if you are going to ask a question on this forum, it is important to figure out who is giving you actual facts and useful information, and who is just making up nonsense.

Yes, I believe you are right thanks Wink

shawnhcorey

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

Quote from: achow101 on January 25, 2016, 04:57:35 PM

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 25, 2016, 04:53:39 PM

Quote from: mirana12345 on January 25, 2016, 04:19:52 PM

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 23, 2016, 02:19:56 PM

Whoa people. There are no coins in Bitcoin, just numbers. A "tainted" coin means one of the accounts in your transaction DAG was of questionable legality. Given time, every account will become "tainted". The only interesting question is: What happens if a court orders a "tainted" transaction rolled back?

What court do you think would have the authority to even speak about currency that doesn't belong to any country ? And even if it did, or try to do,
i hope you understand that noone can "order" rollback of transaction on a decentralized network.
One day, if nodes become heavily centralized, this could be possible i guess, altho i hope it won't happen.

Any court.

I understand. Judges, on the other hand, still seem to be living in the 20th century.

And then they will learn that it is technically impossible to "rollback" a transaction. What will probably happen is that they will order the receiver to return the Bitcoin to the sender.

You all seem to overlook the fact that judges are not good at taking "no" for an answer. As I said, it will get interesting.

mirana12345

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

PM me to buy traffic for your site!

Quote from: achow101 on January 25, 2016, 04:57:35 PM

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 25, 2016, 04:53:39 PM

Quote from: mirana12345 on January 25, 2016, 04:19:52 PM

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 23, 2016, 02:19:56 PM

Whoa people. There are no coins in Bitcoin, just numbers. A "tainted" coin means one of the accounts in your transaction DAG was of questionable legality. Given time, every account will become "tainted". The only interesting question is: What happens if a court orders a "tainted" transaction rolled back?

What court do you think would have the authority to even speak about currency that doesn't belong to any country ? And even if it did, or try to do,
i hope you understand that noone can "order" rollback of transaction on a decentralized network.
One day, if nodes become heavily centralized, this could be possible i guess, altho i hope it won't happen.

Any court.

I understand. Judges, on the other hand, still seem to be living in the 20th century.

And then they will learn that it is technically impossible to "rollback" a transaction. What will probably happen is that they will order the receiver to return the Bitcoin to the sender.

AKAIK it's not technically impossible, but it would mean that the blockchain would have to be forked, and noone in their sane mind would be on the
courts side voting for it. Even in cases of ordering return of the funds to sender, there is no way it could ever be enforced, just like in the case
of other decentralized p2p services (like torrents)

achow101

staff

Activity: 3458

Merit: 6793

Just writing some code

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 25, 2016, 04:53:39 PM

Quote from: mirana12345 on January 25, 2016, 04:19:52 PM

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 23, 2016, 02:19:56 PM

Whoa people. There are no coins in Bitcoin, just numbers. A "tainted" coin means one of the accounts in your transaction DAG was of questionable legality. Given time, every account will become "tainted". The only interesting question is: What happens if a court orders a "tainted" transaction rolled back?

What court do you think would have the authority to even speak about currency that doesn't belong to any country ? And even if it did, or try to do,
i hope you understand that noone can "order" rollback of transaction on a decentralized network.
One day, if nodes become heavily centralized, this could be possible i guess, altho i hope it won't happen.

Any court.

I understand. Judges, on the other hand, still seem to be living in the 20th century.

And then they will learn that it is technically impossible to "rollback" a transaction. What will probably happen is that they will order the receiver to return the Bitcoin to the sender.

shawnhcorey

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

Quote from: mirana12345 on January 25, 2016, 04:19:52 PM

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 23, 2016, 02:19:56 PM

Whoa people. There are no coins in Bitcoin, just numbers. A "tainted" coin means one of the accounts in your transaction DAG was of questionable legality. Given time, every account will become "tainted". The only interesting question is: What happens if a court orders a "tainted" transaction rolled back?

What court do you think would have the authority to even speak about currency that doesn't belong to any country ? And even if it did, or try to do,
i hope you understand that noone can "order" rollback of transaction on a decentralized network.
One day, if nodes become heavily centralized, this could be possible i guess, altho i hope it won't happen.

Any court.

I understand. Judges, on the other hand, still seem to be living in the 20th century.

mirana12345

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

PM me to buy traffic for your site!

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 23, 2016, 02:19:56 PM

Whoa people. There are no coins in Bitcoin, just numbers. A "tainted" coin means one of the accounts in your transaction DAG was of questionable legality. Given time, every account will become "tainted". The only interesting question is: What happens if a court orders a "tainted" transaction rolled back?

What court do you think would have the authority to even speak about currency that doesn't belong to any country ? And even if it did, or try to do,
i hope you understand that noone can "order" rollback of transaction on a decentralized network.
One day, if nodes become heavily centralized, this could be possible i guess, altho i hope it won't happen.

DannyHamilton

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 4801

Quote from: bazzaa1977 on January 25, 2016, 12:59:59 PM

WOW.

I'm more confused as ever now.

There are a lot of users on this forum that know very little (or even nothing at all) about how bitcoin works. Unfortunately, the lack of knowledge doesn't prevent them from answering questions and giving advice. As a result, if you are going to ask a question on this forum, it is important to figure out who is giving you actual facts and useful information, and who is just making up nonsense.

odolvlobo

legendary

Activity: 4466

Merit: 3391

Quote from: bazzaa1977 on January 25, 2016, 12:59:59 PM

WOW.
I'm more confused as ever now.

No need to be confused. Let's review:

1. "Taint" is measure of the portion of the coins at one address that came from another address (either directly or indirectly). A taint value can be computed for every pair of addresses.

2. Some people might also refer to coins (or more accurately coins at an address) as being tainted if the taint value between the address and an address known to receive stolen coins is high.

3. There are no individual coins. There are only amounts of coins.

bazzaa1977

newbie

Activity: 44

Merit: 0

WOW.

I'm more confused as ever now.

odolvlobo

legendary

Activity: 4466

Merit: 3391

Quote from: NorrisK on January 24, 2016, 02:03:48 PM

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 24, 2016, 11:11:28 AM

Quote from: WEBcreator on January 24, 2016, 10:57:13 AM

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 24, 2016, 07:45:59 AM

he will expect it to be carried out without question.

Court cant order someone to do the impossible thing. Even if the court ordered experts to do that, still it is not possible to be carried out unless you control it but it cant be controlled.Tainted or not, it doesnt matter at all as it is still the same coins that could be used to make some payment or even to be exchanged

Except that it is not impossible, just very, very difficult.
And again, you're talking like coins are real. If there is an account with 99 coins and someone sends a "tainted" coin to it, it the account and every coin spent from then on tainted? Or it is 1% tainted? Are all spent coins from then on 1%? Or just the first coin? Or perhaps the last?
If I have a tainted account and I send 100,000 satochis to 100,000 other accounts, are they all tainted? (In today's market, that's about 0.40 USD.)

The specific coins are the tainted coins as far as I know. Otherwise people could taint every coin in existance, basically making the tainting useless.
Tainted coins could in theory be a problem if miners start to reject transactions that cointain tainted coins. This is very unlikely to happen, unless they were stolen for istance from the mining pool itself.

There are no coins, just amounts of coins. Think of bitcoins as something like water, wallets as buckets, and "taint" as a color. When you send coins from one wallet to another wallet, it is like you are pouring water from one bucket into another bucket. If you pour red water into blue water you get purple water. You can't distinguish which bits of water are red and which are blue -- they are all purple now. Given enough time, all buckets will contain at least a little bit of every color. Bitcoins and "taint" work the same way.

A miner won't reject "tainted" coins because that will cause all its blocks to be orphaned and it will quickly go out of business.

shawnhcorey

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

Quote from: NorrisK on January 24, 2016, 02:03:48 PM

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 24, 2016, 11:11:28 AM

Quote from: WEBcreator on January 24, 2016, 10:57:13 AM

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 24, 2016, 07:45:59 AM

he will expect it to be carried out without question.

Court cant order someone to do the impossible thing. Even if the court ordered experts to do that, still it is not possible to be carried out unless you control it but it cant be controlled.Tainted or not, it doesnt matter at all as it is still the same coins that could be used to make some payment or even to be exchanged

Except that it is not impossible, just very, very difficult.

And again, you're talking like coins are real. If there is an account with 99 coins and someone sends a "tainted" coin to it, it the account and every coin spent from then on tainted? Or it is 1% tainted? Are all spent coins from then on 1%? Or just the first coin? Or perhaps the last?

If I have a tainted account and I send 100,000 satochis to 100,000 other accounts, are they all tainted? (In today's market, that's about 0.40 USD.)

The specific coins are the tainted coins as far as I know. Otherwise people could taint every coin in existance, basically making the tainting useless.

Bingo.

BTW, there are no coins, just numbers.

NorrisK

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1007

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 24, 2016, 11:11:28 AM

Quote from: WEBcreator on January 24, 2016, 10:57:13 AM

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 24, 2016, 07:45:59 AM

he will expect it to be carried out without question.

Court cant order someone to do the impossible thing. Even if the court ordered experts to do that, still it is not possible to be carried out unless you control it but it cant be controlled.Tainted or not, it doesnt matter at all as it is still the same coins that could be used to make some payment or even to be exchanged

Except that it is not impossible, just very, very difficult.

And again, you're talking like coins are real. If there is an account with 99 coins and someone sends a "tainted" coin to it, it the account and every coin spent from then on tainted? Or it is 1% tainted? Are all spent coins from then on 1%? Or just the first coin? Or perhaps the last?

If I have a tainted account and I send 100,000 satochis to 100,000 other accounts, are they all tainted? (In today's market, that's about 0.40 USD.)

The specific coins are the tainted coins as far as I know. Otherwise people could taint every coin in existance, basically making the tainting useless.

Tainted coins could in theory be a problem if miners start to reject transactions that cointain tainted coins. This is very unlikely to happen, unless they were stolen for istance from the mining pool itself.

shawnhcorey

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

Quote from: WEBcreator on January 24, 2016, 10:57:13 AM

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 24, 2016, 07:45:59 AM

he will expect it to be carried out without question.

Court cant order someone to do the impossible thing. Even if the court ordered experts to do that, still it is not possible to be carried out unless you control it but it cant be controlled.Tainted or not, it doesnt matter at all as it is still the same coins that could be used to make some payment or even to be exchanged

Except that it is not impossible, just very, very difficult.

And again, you're talking like coins are real. If there is an account with 99 coins and someone sends a "tainted" coin to it, it the account and every coin spent from then on tainted? Or it is 1% tainted? Are all spent coins from then on 1%? Or just the first coin? Or perhaps the last?

If I have a tainted account and I send 100,000 satochis to 100,000 other accounts, are they all tainted? (In today's market, that's about 0.40 USD.)

WEBcreator

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 24, 2016, 07:45:59 AM

he will expect it to be carried out without question.

Court cant order someone to do the impossible thing. Even if the court ordered experts to do that, still it is not possible to be carried out unless you control it but it cant be controlled.Tainted or not, it doesnt matter at all as it is still the same coins that could be used to make some payment or even to be exchanged

qWark

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Interesting never heard of tainted coins before.

shawnhcorey

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

Quote from: odolvlobo on January 23, 2016, 11:22:30 PM

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 23, 2016, 02:19:56 PM

... A "tainted" coin means one of the accounts in your transaction DAG was of questionable legality....

No, it doesn't mean that at all.

There are no coins. All Bitcoin is is a set of accounts and a series of transactions. You cannot taint something that does not exist.

Quote from: shawnhcorey on January 23, 2016, 02:19:56 PM

... The only interesting question is: What happens if a court orders a "tainted" transaction rolled back?

The answer to your interesting question is that nothing happens. You can't roll back a transaction without controlling the block chain.

You're assuming that the courts understand cryptos. They don't. Not until there's an expert witness testifies as to what they are. If a judge orders a rollback, he will expect it to be carried out without question.

Topic: TAINTED COINS (Read 1683 times)