Topic: Talk of China economy collapsing in 3rd/4th Qrt 2014 reaching Fever Pitch (Read 10530 times)
June 21, 2015, 04:41:59 PM
i cant imagine if china collapses,but if that happened maybe there are some country owes the debt for china,but actually iam not sure if thy're collapse soon because in here i can find "made in china" everywhere
June 21, 2015, 10:46:51 AM
It's funny that all thing began with chinese housewives creating bitcoin's bubble then switched to alibaba's ipo and other stocks,
resulting entire stock market into dangerious bubble. crazy housewives.
resulting entire stock market into dangerious bubble. crazy housewives.
June 21, 2015, 08:57:43 AM
money that was lend to buy stocks in china.
tooo daAAAA MOOOOOOOOON
! January 26, 2014, 05:54:41 PM
THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!
When they said they banning transfers to Bitcoin exchanges on January 31 they weren't joking. They're banning transfers to everything
Quote
China Halts Bank Cash Transfers
The People’s Bank of China , the central bank, has just ordered commercial banks to halt cash transfers.
This notice, for instance, appears on the online portal for Citigroup's Citibank unit for its China customers:
In short, there will be a three-day suspension of domestic renminbi transfers. There will also be a suspension, spanning nine calendar days, of conversions of renminbi to foreign currency.
The specific reason given—“system maintenance” at the central bank—is preposterous. It is not credible that during the highest usage period in the year—the weeklong Lunar New Year holiday beginning January 31—the central bank would schedule an upgrade and shut down cash transfers.
A better explanation is that the country’s banking system is running dry. Yes, there is an increased need for money in the run-up to and during the Lunar New Year holiday, but that is only a small factor. After all, central bank officials knew this spike in demand was coming—it occurs every year at this time—and a core function of central banks is to manage seasonal liquidity fluctuations. Moreover, the holiday has not started yet, and the PBOC, as that institution is known, could have added more liquidity to meet cash needs.
So what’s really going on? This crunch follows similar incidents in June and December of last year. In June, for instance, the central bank used the excuse of a “system upgrade” to allow banks to shut down their ATMs and online banking platforms. As a result, they conserved cash and thereby avoided a nationwide meltdown.
So today’s “system maintenance” notice is a sign of a fundamental problem. Banks, in short, need cash to rollover ever-increasing amounts of nonperforming loans and wealth management products. This month, cash needs are even higher than normal because of the impending default of the Credit Equals Gold wealth product scheduled for January 31. Analysts are worried that the failure, if it occurs, will cause a China-wide panic.
Perhaps more important, the Federal Open Market Committee is holding its next meeting on January 28-29 so there could be an announcement on the 29th on the trimming of bond purchases. The suspension of FX transactions means that speculators will not be able to dump renminbi and buy dollars. Fed Chair Bernanke’s words on tapering, beginning in May of last year, shook emerging markets. A FOMC announcement this time could undermine China, especially because of the darkening perceptions about that country.
Pundits, pointing to the nation’s $3.82 trillion in foreign exchange reserves, are fond of saying that Beijing has enough money to weather any situation. Yet China does not have a foreign currency crisis. It has a domestic currency one where dollars, euros, pounds, and yen are not much use.
Banks are evidently scrambling for cash. They have, in the past, resorted to desperate maneuvers at the ends of calendar quarters to meet regulatory requirements. The current crunch is even more alarming because it cannot be occurring for quarter-end reasons.
Something is very wrong in China at the moment. Banks’ apparent need to conserve cash, coming just weeks after the last incident, looks ominous.
Follow me on Twitter @GordonGChang
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2014/01/26/china-halts-bank-cash-transfers-2/
The People’s Bank of China , the central bank, has just ordered commercial banks to halt cash transfers.
This notice, for instance, appears on the online portal for Citigroup's Citibank unit for its China customers:
Quote
Important Notice:
1. Due to the system maintenance of People’s Bank of China, Domestic RMB Fund Transfer through Citibank (China) Online and Citi Mobile will be delayed during January 30th 2014, 16:00pm to February 2nd 2014, 18:30pm. As to the fund availability at the receiving bank, it depends on the processing requirements and turnaround time of the receiving bank. We apologize for any inconvenience caused.
2. During Spring Festival, Foreign Currency Transfer Transaction through Citibank (China) Online and Citi Mobile will be temporally not available from January 30, 2014 18:00pm to February 7, 2014 09:00am. We apologize for any inconvenience caused.
If you have any enquiries, please reach us via our 24-hour banking hotline at 800-830-1880 or credit card hotline at 400-821-1880. If you are calling from other parts of the world, please reach us at 86-20-38801267 for banking services or 86-21-38969500 for credit card services.
1. Due to the system maintenance of People’s Bank of China, Domestic RMB Fund Transfer through Citibank (China) Online and Citi Mobile will be delayed during January 30th 2014, 16:00pm to February 2nd 2014, 18:30pm. As to the fund availability at the receiving bank, it depends on the processing requirements and turnaround time of the receiving bank. We apologize for any inconvenience caused.
2. During Spring Festival, Foreign Currency Transfer Transaction through Citibank (China) Online and Citi Mobile will be temporally not available from January 30, 2014 18:00pm to February 7, 2014 09:00am. We apologize for any inconvenience caused.
If you have any enquiries, please reach us via our 24-hour banking hotline at 800-830-1880 or credit card hotline at 400-821-1880. If you are calling from other parts of the world, please reach us at 86-20-38801267 for banking services or 86-21-38969500 for credit card services.
In short, there will be a three-day suspension of domestic renminbi transfers. There will also be a suspension, spanning nine calendar days, of conversions of renminbi to foreign currency.
The specific reason given—“system maintenance” at the central bank—is preposterous. It is not credible that during the highest usage period in the year—the weeklong Lunar New Year holiday beginning January 31—the central bank would schedule an upgrade and shut down cash transfers.
A better explanation is that the country’s banking system is running dry. Yes, there is an increased need for money in the run-up to and during the Lunar New Year holiday, but that is only a small factor. After all, central bank officials knew this spike in demand was coming—it occurs every year at this time—and a core function of central banks is to manage seasonal liquidity fluctuations. Moreover, the holiday has not started yet, and the PBOC, as that institution is known, could have added more liquidity to meet cash needs.
So what’s really going on? This crunch follows similar incidents in June and December of last year. In June, for instance, the central bank used the excuse of a “system upgrade” to allow banks to shut down their ATMs and online banking platforms. As a result, they conserved cash and thereby avoided a nationwide meltdown.
So today’s “system maintenance” notice is a sign of a fundamental problem. Banks, in short, need cash to rollover ever-increasing amounts of nonperforming loans and wealth management products. This month, cash needs are even higher than normal because of the impending default of the Credit Equals Gold wealth product scheduled for January 31. Analysts are worried that the failure, if it occurs, will cause a China-wide panic.
Perhaps more important, the Federal Open Market Committee is holding its next meeting on January 28-29 so there could be an announcement on the 29th on the trimming of bond purchases. The suspension of FX transactions means that speculators will not be able to dump renminbi and buy dollars. Fed Chair Bernanke’s words on tapering, beginning in May of last year, shook emerging markets. A FOMC announcement this time could undermine China, especially because of the darkening perceptions about that country.
Pundits, pointing to the nation’s $3.82 trillion in foreign exchange reserves, are fond of saying that Beijing has enough money to weather any situation. Yet China does not have a foreign currency crisis. It has a domestic currency one where dollars, euros, pounds, and yen are not much use.
Banks are evidently scrambling for cash. They have, in the past, resorted to desperate maneuvers at the ends of calendar quarters to meet regulatory requirements. The current crunch is even more alarming because it cannot be occurring for quarter-end reasons.
Something is very wrong in China at the moment. Banks’ apparent need to conserve cash, coming just weeks after the last incident, looks ominous.
Follow me on Twitter @GordonGChang
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2014/01/26/china-halts-bank-cash-transfers-2/
When they said they banning transfers to Bitcoin exchanges on January 31 they weren't joking. They're banning transfers to everything
January 24, 2014, 09:18:43 AM
At first the West wanted to "Westernize" the East, later they seek to "Easternize" the West, arrogant fools that we are.
Why cant we accept that its ok for East to be East, and West to be West.
Why cant we accept that its ok for East to be East, and West to be West.
Because part of the value system of the West is that the value system of the East contains such intolerable evil that it must be destroyed, where West and East are universally quantified variables of the type "tribe."
January 24, 2014, 05:25:34 AM
At first the West wanted to "Westernize" the East, later they seek to "Easternize" the West, arrogant fools that we are.
Why cant we accept that its ok for East to be East, and West to be West.
Why cant we accept that its ok for East to be East, and West to be West.
January 24, 2014, 01:25:50 AM
True dat. Last year, the Chinese government released a report in which they admitted killing 49,000 people since 1947 in human rights abuses (gotta appreciate their candor at least). Then they went on to state that the US in the same period has killed 2 million people in the name of spreading democracy. So which would you prefer: "Democracy" or human rights violations?
January 24, 2014, 01:00:22 AM
Ya I hear that dude ^^^^^^^^
It makes me both angry and amused at the same time to hear the Syrian government blaming all of it's country tearing itself apart on 'terrorists'. Who are they fooling? If your government is actively trying to kill half its citizenry then it is probably not legitimate.
The sad fact is that most of America's opponents, aka 'the scary terrorists' , fall into one of these 3 categories.
1) The occasional loonie. He accounts for maybe 1% of terrorist attacks. Okay fine, he is a terrorist. This is the rarest, most uncommon form of terrorist.
2) Terrorists made by the government that is trying to kill them. Such as Al Qaidea. Al Qaidea was brought to power / given power and arms by the CIA to fight the Russians. Many other terrorists cells were once in the pay of the U.S government , and now that they aren't following orders anymore, are then used as villains for PR purposes.
3) People defending themselves or their country. Okay so you can't blow some one up with a home made bomb. But you can bomb a country with an air force, rape their women, kill their kids by the dozens, just in order to expand your fruit selling business? One of 1000 examples http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d'état
And then the real kicker: If the founding fathers of the United States were alive today they would likely be considered 'terrorists' by today's government, just for the ideals they had. That about sums it up.
edit: also thought I'd add, just about the only people the NSA doesn't spy are .... wait for it.... terrorists. That's right. Terrorists actually use the available tools to get around being tracked. The NSA spies on everyone else BESIDES the terrorists. And if you don't like them spying on you -- you are a-- you guessed -- you are a terrorist. Because you won't want to be spied on if you didn't have anything to hide, right ?
It makes me both angry and amused at the same time to hear the Syrian government blaming all of it's country tearing itself apart on 'terrorists'. Who are they fooling? If your government is actively trying to kill half its citizenry then it is probably not legitimate.
The sad fact is that most of America's opponents, aka 'the scary terrorists' , fall into one of these 3 categories.
1) The occasional loonie. He accounts for maybe 1% of terrorist attacks. Okay fine, he is a terrorist. This is the rarest, most uncommon form of terrorist.
2) Terrorists made by the government that is trying to kill them. Such as Al Qaidea. Al Qaidea was brought to power / given power and arms by the CIA to fight the Russians. Many other terrorists cells were once in the pay of the U.S government , and now that they aren't following orders anymore, are then used as villains for PR purposes.
3) People defending themselves or their country. Okay so you can't blow some one up with a home made bomb. But you can bomb a country with an air force, rape their women, kill their kids by the dozens, just in order to expand your fruit selling business? One of 1000 examples http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d'état
And then the real kicker: If the founding fathers of the United States were alive today they would likely be considered 'terrorists' by today's government, just for the ideals they had. That about sums it up.
edit: also thought I'd add, just about the only people the NSA doesn't spy are .... wait for it.... terrorists. That's right. Terrorists actually use the available tools to get around being tracked. The NSA spies on everyone else BESIDES the terrorists. And if you don't like them spying on you -- you are a-- you guessed -- you are a terrorist. Because you won't want to be spied on if you didn't have anything to hide, right ?
January 23, 2014, 10:12:58 PM
"Fiat waging war on Bitcoin is like Dubya waging war on Terrorism. I don't believe it is possible to fight something that has no identity, something that is essentially an ideology."
The war on Terrorism (as with every other "war on") was chosen precisely because it would never have to end. After the end of the cold war, the military/industrial complex has been desperately searching for something to replace it so they're hoping to extend the middle east conflict until a new cold war with china can properly begin. The Chinese government is just as eager to play along. Orwell nailed it in 1984.
Welcome to the new, improved 1984, America 2013.
Ubiquitous surveillance: check.
Ubiquitous propaganda extolling the state and central bank: check
Perpetual fear-mongering: check
Perpetual war against an unseen enemy who can never be defeated: check
Police state with essentially unlimited powers to suppress "enemies of the state": check
Continual revision of history to support the current party line: check.
The war on Terrorism (as with every other "war on
Welcome to the new, improved 1984, America 2013.
Ubiquitous surveillance: check.
Ubiquitous propaganda extolling the state and central bank: check
Perpetual fear-mongering: check
Perpetual war against an unseen enemy who can never be defeated: check
Police state with essentially unlimited powers to suppress "enemies of the state": check
Continual revision of history to support the current party line: check.
January 22, 2014, 07:17:20 PM
I find the typical Keynesian response of war (or alien invasion per Krugman) to stimulate demand, frankly disturbing. It represents everything wrong about our current economic paradigm and why an alternative is required. Is Bitcoin that alternative? Anything would be better than debt based fiat, IMHO.
I would at first suggest that we could see a rise of the chinese middle class, and increased domestic consumption to be the next engine of China. But in the current global situation with middle class crushed all over in "Democracies", it will be transcendant for the CPC to allow that to happen. So yes war is still on the table, is the global situation right now any different from pre WWI or pre WWII? maybe the fact that everyone has nukes nowdays may be a show stopper, but I don't take sanity for granted nowdays.
And comeon it's ancient practice, it's not sought to stimulate demand. When societies reach an impasse conflict is inevitable
because it has interesting properties: it exposes real value, and where true power lies. It's a darwinian proccess of Visions/Ideas and the Will behind them.
In that light don't expect FIATs to make it easy for Bitcoin or any other crypto.
War is an ancient practice and IMHO that is where it belongs, along with slavery, pedophilia (Rome) and colonialism. I am hopeful of development.
Fiat waging war on Bitcoin is like Dubya waging war on Terrorism. I don't believe it is possible to fight something that has no identity, something that is essentially an ideology. Of course, Bitcoin is not terrorism, although I agree banks might feel terrorised. In my view, Bitcoin is as an inevitable paradigm shift for humans on the road of progress. Trying to stop Bitcoin is like trying to stop a wave across a very long beach.
Thaaanos, I see we are disagreeing again. I suppose things are getting back to normal!
January 22, 2014, 04:06:33 PM
I believe we finally agree on something Thaaanos. Not sure how US and Europe can support China. Pollution is chronic, inequality epic, debt growth in 2013 at 49% of GDP. I can't see how China can rebalance without slowing significantly. Even if net exports pick up, it can't help much due to 50% of Chinese GDP in fixed asset formation. Europe can't help anyway as they are still deleveraging. US has Congress to deal with plus Detroit's bankruptcy, not to mention Fed taper pushing interest rates up. Interesting days ahead.
War? that always seem to get things straight.
I would at first suggest that we could see a rise of the chinese middle class, and increased domestic consumption to be the next engine of China. But in the current global situation with middle class crushed all over in "Democracies", it will be transcendant for the CPC to allow that to happen. So yes war is still on the table, is the global situation right now any different from pre WWI or pre WWII? maybe the fact that everyone has nukes nowdays may be a show stopper, but I don't take sanity for granted nowdays.
And comeon it's ancient practice, it's not sought to stimulate demand. When societies reach an impasse conflict is inevitable
because it has interesting properties: it exposes real value, and where true power lies. It's a darwinian proccess of Visions/Ideas and the Will behind them.
In that light don't expect FIATs to make it easy for Bitcoin or any other crypto.
January 22, 2014, 02:27:33 AM
I just read the news "Fear Is Mounting On Wall Street That The Fed Will ‘Fall Behind The Curve’ Like In 1994" http://www.businessinsider.in/Fear-Is-Mounting-On-Wall-Street-That-The-Fed-Will-Fall-Behind-The-Curve/articleshow/29129599.cms
January 21, 2014, 09:35:46 PM
I believe we finally agree on something Thaaanos. Not sure how US and Europe can support China. Pollution is chronic, inequality epic, debt growth in 2013 at 49% of GDP. I can't see how China can rebalance without slowing significantly. Even if net exports pick up, it can't help much due to 50% of Chinese GDP in fixed asset formation. Europe can't help anyway as they are still deleveraging. US has Congress to deal with plus Detroit's bankruptcy, not to mention Fed taper pushing interest rates up. Interesting days ahead.
War? that always seem to get things straight.
January 21, 2014, 09:20:50 AM
"What about the massive public debt? Let's break it down: Right now, the debt is hovering around the same as US GDP. Roughly 2/3 to 3.5/5 of that is owed by US government to AMERICAN PEOPLE."
>> GDP is irrelevant. Unsold houses and cars and government spending which is largely what the GDP is comprised of don't make for a healthy economy. Also you got it the wrong way round. The American people owe the debt to the American government and its creditors. US tax income is around $2.6T. All of that and much more is spent on the military and the rest of the government programs and then the US has to borrow money from the likes of China and iran just to make the interest payments on the debt. The taxpayer and their grandchildren are on the hook for every dollar printed. US banks have one quadrillion of worthless derivatives on their books that can never be repaid but these welfare zombies are kept alive by the Fed's tapering which again the US taxpayer is on the hook for. I think you've been learning economics from either Krugman or Wikipedia.
>> GDP is irrelevant. Unsold houses and cars and government spending which is largely what the GDP is comprised of don't make for a healthy economy. Also you got it the wrong way round. The American people owe the debt to the American government and its creditors. US tax income is around $2.6T. All of that and much more is spent on the military and the rest of the government programs and then the US has to borrow money from the likes of China and iran just to make the interest payments on the debt. The taxpayer and their grandchildren are on the hook for every dollar printed. US banks have one quadrillion of worthless derivatives on their books that can never be repaid but these welfare zombies are kept alive by the Fed's tapering which again the US taxpayer is on the hook for. I think you've been learning economics from either Krugman or Wikipedia.
January 21, 2014, 07:21:38 AM
If China collapses the world is FUBAR. US and Europe will bend to support it.
Else they will see shortage of products and unsustainable price rises. Not to mention Europe/Germany much needed exports
If it happens we are going to witness gold flows to reverse and gold prices going down. Hopefully oil prices will go down too
All in all Bitcoin hoarders wet dream, while the rest of the world crash and burn.
Else they will see shortage of products and unsustainable price rises. Not to mention Europe/Germany much needed exports
If it happens we are going to witness gold flows to reverse and gold prices going down. Hopefully oil prices will go down too
All in all Bitcoin hoarders wet dream, while the rest of the world crash and burn.
Didn't the Brits fuck most of Africa as well? Then they fucked over the Muricans or at least tried to but lost. The Brits also tried to fuck over the Maoris in NZ but they fucked the Brits back just as hard.
As I said, the Brits were just major fuckers. Is there anyone the Brits did not fuck with? Anyone at all?!?
Lloydie I cant even disagree for arguments sake, and you know how I like to disagree with you As I said, the Brits were just major fuckers. Is there anyone the Brits did not fuck with? Anyone at all?!?
I believe we finally agree on something Thaaanos. Not sure how US and Europe can support China. Pollution is chronic, inequality epic, debt growth in 2013 at 49% of GDP. I can't see how China can rebalance without slowing significantly. Even if net exports pick up, it can't help much due to 50% of Chinese GDP in fixed asset formation. Europe can't help anyway as they are still deleveraging. US has Congress to deal with plus Detroit's bankruptcy, not to mention Fed taper pushing interest rates up. Interesting days ahead.
War? that always seem to get things straight.
January 21, 2014, 07:09:49 AM
If China collapses the world is FUBAR. US and Europe will bend to support it.
Else they will see shortage of products and unsustainable price rises. Not to mention Europe/Germany much needed exports
If it happens we are going to witness gold flows to reverse and gold prices going down. Hopefully oil prices will go down too
All in all Bitcoin hoarders wet dream, while the rest of the world crash and burn.
Else they will see shortage of products and unsustainable price rises. Not to mention Europe/Germany much needed exports
If it happens we are going to witness gold flows to reverse and gold prices going down. Hopefully oil prices will go down too
All in all Bitcoin hoarders wet dream, while the rest of the world crash and burn.
Didn't the Brits fuck most of Africa as well? Then they fucked over the Muricans or at least tried to but lost. The Brits also tried to fuck over the Maoris in NZ but they fucked the Brits back just as hard.
As I said, the Brits were just major fuckers. Is there anyone the Brits did not fuck with? Anyone at all?!?
Lloydie I cant even disagree for arguments sake, and you know how I like to disagree with you As I said, the Brits were just major fuckers. Is there anyone the Brits did not fuck with? Anyone at all?!?
I believe we finally agree on something Thaaanos. Not sure how US and Europe can support China. Pollution is chronic, inequality epic, debt growth in 2013 at 49% of GDP. I can't see how China can rebalance without slowing significantly. Even if net exports pick up, it can't help much due to 50% of Chinese GDP in fixed asset formation. Europe can't help anyway as they are still deleveraging. US has Congress to deal with plus Detroit's bankruptcy, not to mention Fed taper pushing interest rates up. Interesting days ahead.
January 21, 2014, 06:52:02 AM
If China collapses the world is FUBAR. US and Europe will bend to support it.
Else they will see shortage of products and unsustainable price rises. Not to mention Europe/Germany much needed exports
If it happens we are going to witness gold flows to reverse and gold prices going down. Hopefully oil prices will go down too
All in all Bitcoin hoarders wet dream, while the rest of the world crash and burn.
Else they will see shortage of products and unsustainable price rises. Not to mention Europe/Germany much needed exports
If it happens we are going to witness gold flows to reverse and gold prices going down. Hopefully oil prices will go down too
All in all Bitcoin hoarders wet dream, while the rest of the world crash and burn.
Didn't the Brits fuck most of Africa as well? Then they fucked over the Muricans or at least tried to but lost. The Brits also tried to fuck over the Maoris in NZ but they fucked the Brits back just as hard.
As I said, the Brits were just major fuckers. Is there anyone the Brits did not fuck with? Anyone at all?!?
Lloydie I cant even disagree for arguments sake, and you know how I like to disagree with you As I said, the Brits were just major fuckers. Is there anyone the Brits did not fuck with? Anyone at all?!?
January 21, 2014, 05:24:44 AM
Is it possible that US will put restrictions to businesses just like China and that will make bitcoin price to go down. There is a lot of talk about this these days.
January 21, 2014, 05:19:08 AM
You make money in 2008? Don't believe it. Where have you traveled to since 2008? You think you out travelled me in five years? Don't believe that either.
January 21, 2014, 05:07:34 AM
Gimp, gimp. What are you, 12 now? lol
Go study some more instead of trying to back pedal with excuses when you write checks your mouth can't cash in infront of other people.
'uneducated' 'military' 'never been part of society' haha making all the wrong guesses.
You really need to check yourself before going on about other people as if you got any ideas kid.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Too bad. You see, some people were smart enough to make some good money when blood was on the streets during 2008.
Take note for future. Trying to get smart with people is a good way of letting them know exactly where your 'educational' levels stands.
The little know-it-alls are pretty damn amusing these days. How easy are you kid/
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